[ogrady]

Originally Posted by CC 330i

I just couldn't figure out why Audi didn't release an A4 3.2Q with manual, or the A3 3.2Q with manual THIS YEAR! What were they thinking? They lost my business because of it.

Hrm why didn't Audi offer a manual for the new A4 3.2? I've never driven an Audi manual, were they just so bad that they gave up on them (sort of like Mercedes)? You'd think that they'd put a manual to directly compete with the E90, but maybe they're going a different image/direction with their A4?

[pharding]

My son and I test drove an Acura TL before ordering his e90 330. Acura includes just about every option for a competive price. However it does not drive like a BMW. The Chrysler 300C makes for an interesting comparison, although it falls into a different category. What about the Mustang GT or the Corvette as a competitor? Or a C Class MB?

[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by ogrady

Hrm why didn't Audi offer a manual for the new A4 3.2? I've never driven an Audi manual, were they just so bad that they gave up on them (sort of like Mercedes)? You'd think that they'd put a manual to directly compete with the E90, but maybe they're going a different image/direction with their A4?

I think they eventually will offer the A4 with 3.2 and Manual transmission, but just not right away. With the A3, Audi says they will not offer the 3.2 with Manual at all, but I think they eventually will. The DSG transmission is really really good, but it still isn't like a manual. (It shifts more quickly than manual, but it doesn't offer you quite the same level of control that a true manual offers).

I think they are trying to "steer" people into the DSG transmission, which really is good, but I like driving a manual too much to ever consider an Auto, no matter how good it is. I think that someday the clutch pedal will disappear completely, but I am doing my part to keep it around by buying a manual this year.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by CC 330i

I think that someday the clutch pedal will disappear completely, but I am doing my part to keep it around by buying a manual this year.

What's cool with BMW is that I think they will always offer the manual transmission on the 3-series. Although, it will be interesting to see if they will offer manual on the e90 M3 or force people to switch to SMG.

I drove the Cadillac CTS 6-speed manual...liked it, but it seemed like such a huge car and it was really hard to hear the engine from inside the cabin, which somewhat hinders shifting.

Got a chance to drive the CTS-V and new Corvette Z06...insane acceleration. It doesn't even matter how many RPMs the engine is spinning when you step on the accelerator...you just get launched when you put your foot down.

[dpinto1]

Originally Posted by Athos

dpinto,
Nice that you compared all these cars. Have you test-driven the E90 yet or only the E46? Would be interesting to hear how you compare the E90 to the other cars.

No i Haven`t had a chance to drive the e90. From the reviews i read this new 3 series is actually boring to drive compared to the old e46. Is Bmw trying to change the 3 series formula by making it a more well rounded car?

Hope not.

REDSTRIPE- try swedespeed.com for a s40/s60 forum

[batmanwagon]

Originally Posted by CC 330i

I think they eventually will offer the A4 with 3.2 and Manual transmission, but just not right away. With the A3, Audi says they will not offer the 3.2 with Manual at all, but I think they eventually will. The DSG transmission is really really good, but it still isn't like a manual. (It shifts more quickly than manual, but it doesn't offer you quite the same level of control that a true manual offers).

I think they are trying to "steer" people into the DSG transmission, which really is good, but I like driving a manual too much to ever consider an Auto, no matter how good it is. I think that someday the clutch pedal will disappear completely, but I am doing my part to keep it around by buying a manual this year.

That's exactly why I went for the 330i as well - the B7 A4 3.2 is a really, really nice car, but doesn't yet have a manual transmission. Rumor from the vwvortex board (for those of you wondering about other car fanatics, www.vwvortex.com is probably home to some of the biggest car nuts out) is that the A4 3.2 will eventually have one - either late this year or early next year.

[DK_12]

Although there is no car that still matches the 3-series, I think the G35 is the closest. It is faster than the 3 and handles well, but the overall driving feel and experience does not match. The interior in that car is really cheap too. I like Audi's and they have nice interiors but it still lacks the speed and driving capabilities (they need a RWD). Although the IS350 looks good on paper, nobody has driven it yet so we'll have to wait and see if a Lexus can be a real competitor. No manual transmission is a joke. Everything about the C-class Benz sucks!

[romeo26]

hay supadan have you ever driven a merc c-class?
i have (my sisters) and its pritty quick if your on the gas!! the only prob. with them is they have too many things go wrong, even more then my e30. for me i think BMW's a good car but i agree with wannabe, you cant dismiss the jap cars just yet they are getting there!! only prob. with them is that they are FRONT WHEEL DRIVE if they put rear wheel drive on them then we would have more decent compatition.

for pharding
common a Corvette vs. 330i? i think thats way out of its class!!!

[cosmosblau]

Originally Posted by shipo

........The IS350 on the other hand is going to be emasculated by Lexus as it is only going to be offered as a slushbox. What's up with that?

Best Regards,
Shipo

My opinion:

The Lexus is just for show.
The Infiniti has lots of power, but no soul.
Audi A4- Too small, not enough power, TORQUE STEER in FWD model.

[icedragon]

In North American, the E90's competitors in terms of class and quality will be Audi A4, Benz C-Class, Infiniti GS, Lexus IS, Acura TSX.

In Europe, it's competitor will be Lexus. According to JD Power and Associates, Europeans rank Lexus as the most wanted cars.

In Japan, it has no competitors. According to JD Power and Associates, the Japanese rank BMW as the most wanted car.

Funny, how Europeans don't want European cars and how Japanese ppl don't want Japanese cars.

[C6H12O6]

Originally Posted by icedragon

In North American, the E90's competitors in terms of class and quality will be Audi A4, Benz C-Class, Infiniti GS, Lexus IS, Acura TSX.

In Europe, it's competitor will be Lexus. According to JD Power and Associates, Europeans rank Lexus as the most wanted cars.

In Japan, it has no competitors. According to JD Power and Associates, the Japanese rank BMW as the most wanted car.

Funny, how Europeans don't want European cars and how Japanese ppl don't want Japanese cars.

that's cuz we always want what we can't have.
we are wierd like that.

[cosmosblau]

Originally Posted by icedragon

Funny, how Europeans don't want European cars and how Japanese ppl don't want Japanese cars.

Yes, but NOBODY wants American Cars!

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by romeo26

only prob. with them is that they are FRONT WHEEL DRIVE if they put rear wheel drive on them then we would have more decent compatition.

Actually, Lexus IS and all Infintis are rear-wheel drive. I think the only Japanesse that isn't is Acura. Japanese cars have all the neccesary parts to make great cars, however they are still can't get the dynamics right. The cars don't communicate to the driver one bit. I don't think the 3 has lost anything in terms of driver feedback.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

Japanese cars have all the neccesary parts to make great cars, however they are still can't get the dynamics right.

I agree, look at the S2000. Honda obviously has this chassis and powertrain available, but they won't put it on any of their other cars. They could have made the TSX and TL the same layout..but NOOOO. Pisses me off and pisses a lot of other people off.

On the other hand, I disagree with you on the dynamics part...the RSX-S is as dynamic a car as you can get. It's one of the best "driver" cars out there. I think they know that most people don't care that a car is RWD drive, if they can get the same handling and power as more expensive cars...who cares that it's FWD. I do though.

I think Acura hasn't made the jump yet because FWD is too much a good thing to give up. It's safer, cheaper, and most people really don't care. Besides they will have to develop all sorts of traction control, dynamic stability control, and differentials just to make it safe. I think most BMW drivers would crash their cars within a month if it wasn't for all the computer intervention. As long as people keep buying their cars, they could care less about RWD on their sedans.

I'm waiting to see if they will start spreading their SH-AWD technology to other cars and maybe the control to shift all or most of the power to the rear wheels like you can on the Evo and STI.

[romeo26]

me i probly be keeping off the dtc.
dont have it in my e30 and i could drive it just fine!!

[shipo]

Originally Posted by wannabe

I think most BMW drivers would crash their cars within a month if it wasn't for all the computer intervention.

Uhhh, well I've been driving BMWs (and other RWD cars) since well before all of the electronic nannies were being installed on mass production cars, and I can see no justification for that statement. The 1979 320i (with LSD) that I drove was more than up to the task of driving in wintry conditions, and when it was dry, the only thing that I've driven from that era that was even close was a 1979 Scirocco. Close? Yes. As good as? No.

True, FWD cars are cheaper to build, and more efficient relative to packaging, but I'm having a very difficult time choking down your statement claiming that they are safer.

Best Regards,
Shipo

[wannabe]

romeo26 and shipo, you guys are most definitely the exception. Notice I said MOST. Of course there are a lot of drivers that know proper car control.

How could you not say that FWD is safer. It's IMPOSSIBLE to get it sideways unless you pull the handbrake. I've seen a Mustang GT being driven by someone that obviously did not know how to drive in snow and it was scary watching him try to gas his way out of a parking lot. His car's back end was all over the place...the same would not happen in a FWD car.

I think it's always safer to understeer than oversteer. The fact that RWD is so dynamic also makes it more dangerous.

Didn't mean to alienate you guys, but I said MOST. Judging from most of the people I see driving Bimmers...they are not all car control experts or have been taught how to drive a RWD car safely.

The people here who have been driving BMW's since forever and the people that really know how to drive was exempt from that statement.

Why do you think BMW goes through all the expense and engineering to put in the electronic "nannies." To protect their driver's from themselves.

[romeo26]

yes fwd is safer but i think i would like oversteer then understeer because with understeer your front tires loose traction thus leving you no posibility of turning!! but plz correct me if iam wrong!!!!!!!
it is imposible to drift the fwd with out the intervention of the handbrake.

[wannabe]

romer26, imagine this scenario.

Someone slows down at an intersection and makes a right turn without stopping. The person in the FWD gasses it and losses traction on the front wheels...so the car understeers and ends up in the left lane instead of the right lane...besides they can correct this by braking.

The same person in a RWD car could possibly lose traction in the rear-wheels and end up spinning their car out and going sideways down the street. At this point they are completely out of control unless they know what they are doing.

I'm saying that most driver's would be safer in a FWD cars...we are not all car control experts...I know I'm not.

Also, think about how much more powerful cars are now...they have more power to break traction on the rear wheels...not like in 1979 or whenever. The horsepower numbers that the 3-series has now is equivalent to what the Porches and Corvette's had in 1988.

The more powerful cars get, the more computer intervention is needed to keep us "regular" drivers from spinning out of control.

[romeo26]

thats true about fwd...but why get a car you cant controll? for my tast i find rwd way funner to drive then fwd just b/c you can do that stuff with little effort!

[wannabe]

You are preaching to the choir my friend.

[shipo]

The problem is that folks who have been brainwashed by all of the manufacturers into believing that FWD is safer, typically only look at one or two handling characteristics of FWD cars, namely understeer/oversteer and winter traction. From my perspective that is an easy (but disingenuous) way to discount the attributes of RWD that inherently surpass the FWD configuration.

The fact is that oversteer from a RWD car isn't the only thing that can get a driver in over their head, if it were, then FWD would be the hands down winner for winter driving. While it is true that under power, a FWD car is far less likely to swap ends, under moderate to neutral power the front end weight bias of a FWD car is less likely to handle as well as a more balanced RWD car of similar capabilities. Then again there are scenarios where RWD has the natural advantage, such as braking, and handling at (but not beyond) the limit. Case in point: It is very hilly where I live, and about a mile from my house there is a road that features an off camber, decreasing radius turn down a fairly steep hill. I cannot tell you how many FWD cars I've seen in the ditch just beyond the apex during the last three winters (pointing the wrong way no less). During that time I've found myself following any number of your basic FWD cars (CamCord, Volvo, Saab, etc.) down said hill in my BMW, and in every case, the instant they touched their brakes (which are required even at all but the slowest of speeds given the grade of the hill), the back end would step out. The good drivers would ease up on the brakes and correct for the slide, and if they weren't going too fast, they would make it through. Those that were too hot usually found the ditch, arse end first. My BMW? Nothing, not even a hint of ABS.

At the limit, FWD is easier to drive in wintry conditions in some scenarios; RWD is easier in others, with a slight overall edge going to the FWD cars. However, add the "nannies" into the mix, and it is my firm belief that a well balanced, DSC equipped RWD car is safer than an otherwise similar FWD car.

Best Regards,
Shipo