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      06-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #287
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Interesting. Could explain why my wife's 2012 Focus has better steering feel as compared to the 5 Series loaner I got last year. All the reviews I've read praise Ford's EPAS tuning as among the best.
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      06-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #288
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I feel the same about Honda's. Love the feel of the electric steering in our Civic Si.
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      06-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #289
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Aftermarket tuning isn't necessarily an answer for EPS as resistance /= feel. Sport button on the E39 M5(which was hydraulic) increased the steering resistance and I found it completely stupid.

We are all completely up a creek if the new Nissan(always leading the way to failure) steer by wire system takes off.
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      06-26-2013, 10:24 AM   #290
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Aftermarket tuning isn't necessarily an answer for EPS as resistance /= feel. Sport button on the E39 M5(which was hydraulic) increased the steering resistance and I found it completely stupid.
The problem with variable-rate hydro systems is the parasitic drag. The extra drag of the hydraulic system kills feel.

Other than the drag from the assist system, it's all about geometry. EPS has the potential to solve the parasitic drag problem though.
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      06-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #291
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The problem with variable-rate hydro systems is the parasitic drag. The extra drag of the hydraulic system kills feel.

Other than the drag from the assist system, it's all about geometry. EPS has the potential to solve the parasitic drag problem though.
Sadly, driving feel has taken a back seat to the horsepower war, lap times, the environment, MPG figures, crash safety, pedestrian safety, styling, and the ability to talk on the phone while drinking a turbo caffé macchiato.
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      06-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #292
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Handling and grip are two very different things. Unfortunately handling has seemed to take the backseat to grip.
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      06-27-2013, 10:56 AM   #293
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Handling and grip are two very different things. Unfortunately handling has seemed to take the backseat to grip.
Yup, a concept few seem to grasp, along with how BBKs don't change stopping distance.
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      06-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
... along with how BBKs don't change stopping distance.



As for 'grip', one of my favorite cars was a 1968 MG. I think it was quoted at 88hp. Only way it would hit 100 mph was if someone dropped it off a cliff. It was a little sloppy but predictable. And it was a blast to drive -- I could drift it at will on the roads above LA.


Edit: With that as my baseline I think I'm genetically predisposed to prefer a 128i over a 135i. All you haters, don't knock it until you try it!
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      06-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #295
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As for 'grip', one of my favorite cars was a 1968 MG. I think it was quoted at 88hp. Only way it would hit 100 mph was if someone dropped it off a cliff. It was a little sloppy but predictable. And it was a blast to drive -- I could drift it at will on the roads above LA.
I've been trying to figure out what I want for my silly car as the 130is settles in for DD duty. 993 C2S really seems to be the logical choice.

I love all the old MGs, and your description hits it on the head. I really feel that people over tire old cars to ruination these days.
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      06-27-2013, 12:07 PM   #296
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993 C2S really seems to be the logical choice.

That's on my short list. I've owned a 911, 993 and a 996. All were bullet proof, but the 993s really seem to be aging well. (Especially if you check out the Porsche porn at Singer Vehicle Design.)

To keep this from turning into a Porsche thread I'll say that the elemental feel of the 128i is part of its appeal to me -- it goes back to the roots of some classic sports cars but updated for the way we drive today (minus the cup holder, of course!).
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      06-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #297
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Too late, now a porsche thread.

Are you guys pulling my strings? The 993 C2S is a dream. Never owned, driven once, and it will be mine, yes it will. I would simply collapse emotionally if it came in a metallic brown like Nougat Brown too.

It's a dream for me because C2S's hold their value well here in Los Angeles. I'm actually looking at a significantly cheaper '74 SC with a rebuilt 3.2, RS bumpers, fuchs wheels, in black and for sale locally. (high miles, of course.)

Also saw, presumably a turbo S, but with a full 993 RS kit going through the canyon yesterday.
Dat lip and spoiler...

LOVE PORSCHE. They age better than wine.
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      06-27-2013, 02:26 PM   #298
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Quote:
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That's on my short list. I've owned a 911, 993 and a 996. All were bullet proof, but the 993s really seem to be aging well. (Especially if you check out the Porsche porn at Singer Vehicle Design.)

To keep this from turning into a Porsche thread I'll say that the elemental feel of the 128i is part of its appeal to me -- it goes back to the roots of some classic sports cars but updated for the way we drive today (minus the cup holder, of course!).
There isn't much I like about the 996, but the 993 seems to be a perfect blend of semi modern with solid old car driving dynamics.

I do have a hard time justifying the C2S over the C2 though as it is purely a body kit for $10k.
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      06-27-2013, 03:26 PM   #299
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There isn't much I like about the 996, but the 993 seems to be a perfect blend of semi modern with solid old car driving dynamics.
No argument: 993 > 996

And if I understand you correctly, "old car driving dynamics" is another way of saying "balanced" -- 'cause I think that's the gist of many posts around here. We don't want no auto-shifting, numb-steering, over-powered, over-grippy, lazyboy-seated, electronic-nanny-babysitting cocoons-on-wheels. We want cars we can drive!
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      06-27-2013, 06:31 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Yup, a concept few seem to grasp, along with how BBKs don't change stopping distance.
As my Dad says: "Buy them books and buy them books and all they do is eat the covers."
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      06-27-2013, 10:05 PM   #301
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No argument: 993 > 996

And if I understand you correctly, "old car driving dynamics" is another way of saying "balanced" -- 'cause I think that's the gist of many posts around here. We don't want no auto-shifting, numb-steering, over-powered, over-grippy, lazyboy-seated, electronic-nanny-babysitting cocoons-on-wheels. We want cars we can drive!
Yup, and I want character to boot. That unmistakable Porsche air cooled clatter is perfection.
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      06-28-2013, 11:59 PM   #302
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[quote=TheSt|G]
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Handling and grip are two very different things. Unfortunately handling has seemed to take the backseat to grip.

Yup, a concept few seem to grasp, along with how BBKs don't change stopping distance.

Haha I love that one. "But can't I haz shorter stopping distance for my 2 grand!?!?!!"

Oops!
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      06-29-2013, 08:33 AM   #303
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[quote=mb135is;14242805]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G


Haha I love that one. "But can't I haz shorter stopping distance for my 2 grand!?!?!!"

Oops!
Just line feel and heat capacity.
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      06-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #304
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[quote=mb135is;14242805]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G


Haha I love that one. "But can't I haz shorter stopping distance for my 2 grand!?!?!!"

Oops!
I spent 2 grand and got shorter stopping distances. Its this weird type of brake...its made of rubber.
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      06-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #305
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[quote=BrokenVert;14243873]
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I spent 2 grand and got shorter stopping distances. Its this weird type of brake...its made of rubber.
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      07-08-2013, 06:44 PM   #306
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      07-08-2013, 09:42 PM   #307
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Quote:
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I spent 2 grand and got shorter stopping distances. Its this weird type of brake...its made of rubber.
I did that as well, and then spent another $3k on something that weighed less and was easier to stop rolling.
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      07-09-2013, 06:12 PM   #308
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Coulda saved a ton of money and just bought a parachute.
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