[lux.sh]

^ what is your honest opinion on handling of E90 compared to M3?

(sorry for off-topic)

[deutschmann59]

I like the IS350. No way would I have taken that over the E90, but the Lexus is still a nice car. I liked the old IS300 MUCH better, but Lexus needed a car under the GS that had to go head to head with the 3-er and now they have it.

The IS has more HP, but I love the E90. My 325i is fast and powerful enough for me

[peakpro]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Good opinions again. Damn. I didn't expect so many responses.

I have another question. Those of you claiming IS350 is "boring" and not a driver's car.
Have you guys actually drove the new IS350? or just judging that they
are not driver's car without driving them for awhile or from previous lexus
experience.

Of course they haven't driven it. They are just hitting showrooms.

I believe the E90 will be a better driving car but the gap has been narrowed.

I like the looks of the IS350 better. I have not seen the interior but I don't like the e90 interior one bit. It can't be any worse.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by peakpro

I believe the E90 will be a better driving car but the gap has been narrowed.

I like the looks of the IS350 better. I have not seen the interior but I don't like the e90 interior one bit. It can't be any worse.

Exactly. Gap has definitely been narrowed.

After I saw the IS350 in person just few hours ago, I am glad I got e90.
The car looked like luxury version of civic.

As for e90 interior, I saw in both E46 and E90 interior before
I ordered my E90. I was in debate whether to go for 330Ci ZHP
or E90 330i sedan. Looks wise, 330Ci ZHP looked better.
For interior, E46 looked outdated compared to E90.

To each on his own I guess. Both look great.

[THE JEDI]

THE IS350....HAS THE UNDERPINNINGS OF THE HOME MARKET TOYOTA COROLLA.......ENOUGH SAID....AND IF U THINK I'M JOKING JUST SEND A LETTER TO TOYOTA JAPAN......I WAS LIKE WOW THIS IS SHARP....BUT THE BROCHURE SAID ALLTETZA....COROLLA.....DO I NEED TO SAY ANYMORE....BMW IS BMW....BUT HEY THE IS350 IS SWEET....YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT GOOD COMPETITION....MAKES ALL THINGS BETTER

THE JEDI

[Accounting4Speed]

The Mark Levinson system is perhaps the best stock system out.

It may be good, but after listening to it for 3 years, I was not impressed. I think Harman Kardon puts together a better product. Mostly because they produce some of the best amplifiers pound for pound. And as for the best stock system out, I think that one goes to this car.

That's a freakin' stereo!

[jiggax23]

Originally Posted by Accounting4Speed

It may be good, but after listening to it for 3 years, I was not impressed. I think Harman Kardon puts together a better product. Mostly because they produce some of the best amplifiers pound for pound. And as for the best stock system out, I think that one goes to this car.

That's a freakin' stereo!

The Harmon Kardon system, imo, and in the opinion of many of my friends, is not even as good as the Logic 7 system. The Mark Levinson is a far superiour system. Like I said, it might not be the loudest, but in terms of acoustic reproduction, it is one of the finest. Better than the Logic 7 if you ask me (the Logic 7 is kind of off on certain frequencies), and I've had a chance to play with the Logic 7. I've only heard the Mark Levinson a handful of times, and it was better than the Logic 7 every time. Again, this is just one person's opinion, everyone's will vary, but to bash the ML system as harshly as you did in your original post, i think is way unfair and unwarranted. But then again, I guess your opinion is your opinion. As far as the link you posted goes, I will not comment on that system until I actually hear it, and I'm sure 99% of the people on this board have yet to hear that system. I'm not doubting it, but I'm not gonna say its the best stock system out without hearing it just because it has 14 speakers and 1,100 watts. I used to run 2 speakers in my car with 250 watts that sounded better than most guys running 4 speakers with well over 250 watts of power.

[bmwczech]

I sat in a Lexus IS 250 today. There is no question, it is a nice looking car. The interior was nice, fit and finish was high quality. I found the back seat tight for space. The exterior lines of the car I think are nicer than the 2005 IS 300.

I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I wasn't blown away by the car. Of course I didn't drive the car so I have no idea how it would compare to the e90. Based on some of the reviews on the car it seems that the critics point out that the e90 still beats the Lexus in the handling department.

I am glad that I have purchased the e90!

[Ioman]

I think the IS350 looks sporty, and is attractive, but IMO the 330i has class.

The BMW 330i is like James Bond, classy, good looking and lethal.

The IS350 is like Jet Li, looks mean and can kick some butt, but missing the refinement and eloquence.

[deutschmann59]

Originally Posted by Accounting4Speed

That's a freakin' stereo!

You know what, you're right! And I thought the logic 7 was good

[wchew]

You know, sometimes I am wondering, why can't BMW and Mercedes-Benz make cars as reliable as Toyota and Honda?

I can understand why Toyota and Honda or any other brand cannot make cars that drive as well as BMW, the engineering for the "feel of driving" is like chess, like music, it's whether you have it or not, hard work is less important. However, I feel that reliability is more like history, vocabulary, etc; it's whether you want to work hard or not. Can't you just do more testing, more training on the technicians to get more reliable car? Or is it very difficult engineering as well, so difficult that only those two Japanese companies can master in it?

I think I know very little about cars, so can some experts here provide some opinion on this topic?

[Accounting4Speed]

I'd have to say the big difference is innocvation and copying. German carmakers tend to be at the forefront of innovation. When you're in the forefront people scrutinize...a lot. But if you want the latest and greatest, what Germany offers, you are gonna pay a bit more and have to expect a few problems along the way. With the new IS, compare it more to the E46, it is a great car, but most BMW drivers agree, the E90 is a superior animal. Toyota took an E46, pulled it apart, and put it back together with some Lexus current styling. Sorry if I offended you Jig, I just have a lot of experience with Harman Kardon v. Mark Levinson. And with the B&O Audi A8, I feel that B&O is one of the best audio makers in the world, so they wouldn't design a car stereo unless it was beyond perfect. Anyway, my car gets off the boat around 4 am, so i'm gonna drink a beer and cheer to that long wait being over.

[visor]

Originally Posted by wchew

You know, sometimes I am wondering, why can't BMW and Mercedes-Benz make cars as reliable as Toyota and Honda?

I can understand why Toyota and Honda or any other brand cannot make cars that drive as well as BMW, the engineering for the "feel of driving" is like chess, like music, it's whether you have it or not, hard work is less important. However, I feel that reliability is more like history, vocabulary, etc; it's whether you want to work hard or not. Can't you just do more testing, more training on the technicians to get more reliable car? Or is it very difficult engineering as well, so difficult that only those two Japanese companies can master in it?

I think I know very little about cars, so can some experts here provide some opinion on this topic?

Reliability is probably dependent on the quality rather than the design of the parts of the car. The suppliers of car parts to Toyota/Honda have better quality control than BMW's suppliers, especially wrt electronic parts. Anyone saying otherwise should be reminded of failures in E46 thermostats, window regulators, light modules, etc.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Ioman

I think the IS350 looks sporty, and is attractive, but IMO the 330i has class.

The BMW 330i is like James Bond, classy, good looking and lethal.

The IS350 is like Jet Li, looks mean and can kick some butt, but missing the refinement and eloquence.

Actually one of the strongest selling points of Lexus is refinement. They are suppose to be smooth and quiet like a bank vault that's why they lose out on the performance edge.

[jiggax23]

Originally Posted by Accounting4Speed

Sorry if I offended you Jig, I just have a lot of experience with Harman Kardon v. Mark Levinson. And with the B&O Audi A8, I feel that B&O is one of the best audio makers in the world, so they wouldn't design a car stereo unless it was beyond perfect. Anyway, my car gets off the boat around 4 am, so i'm gonna drink a beer and cheer to that long wait being over.

No need to apologize, you didn't offend me, we just seem to have a difference in opinions... i apologize if i came off in the wrong way, it's kind of hard to interpret the emotions of people in writing. Aside from all my bickering, congrats on ur new vehicle, you're gonna love it, Logic 7 included (i'm assuming you got an e90 w/ logic 7?).

[wchew]

Originally Posted by visor

Reliability is probably dependent on the quality rather than the design of the parts of the car. The suppliers of car parts to Toyota/Honda have better quality control than BMW's suppliers, especially wrt electronic parts. Anyone saying otherwise should be reminded of failures in E46 thermostats, window regulators, light modules, etc.

Why not switch suppliers then? I guess this become a business problem instead of an engineering one.

[JBOO]

Audi tends to get negative views for being under VW, but it's not like an Audi is just a rebadged VW that's not sold in Germany but sent to the US as a premium brand. Until as a whole Lexus creates cars that are strictly a Lexus in all markets, they will always be viewed as fancy Toyotas. Nonetheless, I think they are for the most part nice cars, but I view them more of a competitor to Mercedes than BMW. Luxurious, safe and fast. As a whole, they are all in the same class, but BMW (IMO), offers a little something different that the others have not been able to match ... yet.

For those buying based on brand, luxury or transportation from point A to B, then YES, the IS is a viable alternative to the 3 series.

However, for those who are more into driving dynamics, those who make excuses just to drive their cars, or those who end each journey with huge smiles on their faces (feeling like ), the IS is not an alternative until consistently proven otherwise.

So far, the new IS 350 (as impressive as it may be) has not proven that it can un-throne the king.

[MCS]

Isn't Mark Levinson an upscale division of Harmon Kardon?!? I've listened to the ML system in a LS430 and it sounds out of this world. Due to a couple of factors: the LS430 is one of the quietest interiors, and the stereo design was custom made for the car & its acoustical character. We skipped on the ML option for the RX because 1 - its costly, 2 - the RX is a noisier car than the LS, and, lastly, because we thought the stock audio sounds fine for commuting/hauling the family on weekends.

I own a B&O system at home and to me, you really can't compare home audio vs car audio.

Lexus is aimed squarely at the BMW target audience. BMW is not necessarily running scared, but they are quickly looking into making engine improvements in HP to compete.

Having not driven the IS350, I can't comment on the handling vs the e90. All I know is that I enjoy driving the E90 a great deal around corners as I'm sure a brand new IS owner will do to.

Can't knock Toyota, they are the most efficient and profitable car company in the world. Porsche and BMW are the most profitable per car company in the world. Interpret that as you wish.

[poldim]

Originally Posted by Accounting4Speed

It may be good, but after listening to it for 3 years, I was not impressed. I think Harman Kardon puts together a better product. Mostly because they produce some of the best amplifiers pound for pound. And as for the best stock system out, I think that one goes to this car.

That's a freakin' stereo!

Are you seriously bringing up that car? Bang & Olufsen is avery expensive entertainment brand. Their stuff cost more than the entire IS.

[Ioman]

Originally Posted by MCS

Isn't Mark Levinson an upscale division of Harmon Kardon?!? I've listened to the ML system in a LS430 and it sounds out of this world. Due to a couple of factors: the LS430 is one of the quietest interiors, and the stereo design was custom made for the car & its acoustical character. We skipped on the ML option for the RX because 1 - its costly, 2 - the RX is a noisier car than the LS, and, lastly, because we thought the stock audio sounds fine for commuting/hauling the family on weekends.

I own a B&O system at home and to me, you really can't compare home audio vs car audio.

Lexus is aimed squarely at the BMW target audience. BMW is not necessarily running scared, but they are quickly looking into making engine improvements in HP to compete.

Having not driven the IS350, I can't comment on the handling vs the e90. All I know is that I enjoy driving the E90 a great deal around corners as I'm sure a brand new IS owner will do to.

Can't knock Toyota, they are the most efficient and profitable car company in the world. Porsche and BMW are the most profitable per car company in the world. Interpret that as you wish.

Lexicon is who makes the Logic 7 in the E90, and is Harman Internationals upperscale brand.

Personally I give the Logic 7 a 6 or 7/10. It sounds good, but the soundstage is way to forward, and there isn't enough bass to help the system.

[sjava]

My comparison:

- Exterior: They looks nice overall but I don't like the rear of both cars. IS back sits too high and 3 series back looks too roundy.
- Interior: IS interior is definitely nicer but it feels kinda tight and there is not much space for rear passengers. This might be a deal breaker for some people.
- Engine: IS has stronger engine and it's smooth too.
- Handling: At the limit, BMW is more predictable. VDIM on IS cannot be turned off.
- Reliability: ISs are made at the best auto manufacturing plant in the world.
- Options packaging: You have to pay $3000+ just to get HID on IS. I like BMW options better.

[Ioman]

Doesn't the IS only come in an automatic transmission? Screw the steering wheel paddle shifters, I would want a stick shift.