Wheres the top end?

NYC6 · 02-04-2010, 04:10 PM

Picked up my new 135 yesterday. Like it alot already but I'm a little surprised. Ran the tach up once or twice and the power tops out in the mid 5K range! Is it because of the small turbos not being able to make power that high? It seems like alot of the dynos I've seen showing cars with tunes( while making good numbers) also seem to stop making power well before the redline. Whats the point of having a redline at 7K if the HP peaks long before you get there?

HPFREAK · 02-04-2010, 04:16 PM

It is because the boost falls off in the stock tune after 5k. The tunes will fix a lot of that. In the JB3 on map 3 it will get around 13+psi and still fall off after 5k since it is still a conservative tune, but on map 5 it will get about 15psi and not fall off as much. i run my car on map 5 and it pulls to red line much better than map 3. Map 7 is even more aggressive and holds the boost even longer in the rpm range. What you are feeling is the safe factory tune but it is still new motor and will get better as time goes on.

NYC6 · 02-04-2010, 04:27 PM

I never drove a car that falls on its face like that 2K RPM short of redline! Like I've read about the 135, it being a powerful midrange car that is a little unsatisfying at the top is on the money. I just didnt think it would be that pronounced. Its almost as if it hits a limiter. I dont want to jeopardize my warranty at this point so I dont plan on turning the wick up with a boxed tune but is there anything that lets this deep breathe a little better? Without BMW warranty at issue that is.

miro2296 · 02-04-2010, 04:38 PM

JB3 will for surely resolve that! I know what you are talking about and with JB3 it pulls hard.

jeremyc74 · 02-04-2010, 04:41 PM

On the stock tune you're pretty much stuck with it. Coming from an LS2 GTO I noticed the same thing. Right where I was expecting the power to start coming on strong it started falling off. It's strange having to get used to shifting that much below redline.

A tune and a set of catless pipes changes it a LOT, but of course you're risking the warranty. The N54 is great around town when it's stock, but unfortunatly it's lacking on the upper end of the RPM range.

HPFREAK · 02-04-2010, 04:44 PM

I understand the warranty concern but a piggyback tune will be the least likely to be an issue isnce with the JB3/BT scan tool combo you can read and delete any codes you may get from running the more aggressive maps and the Procede has the code clearing ability as well. A Jb3 will fix your concerns, but a drop in filter or a good DCI filter system with air scoops could help out with letting it rev a little better, but the engine will get more spirited after you get some miles on it and do your first oil change. I did mine at 1000 miles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC6

I never drove a car that falls on its face like that 2K RPM short of redline! Like I've read about the 135, it being a powerful midrange car that is a little unsatisfying at the top is on the money. I just didnt think it would be that pronounced. Its almost as if it hits a limiter. I dont want to jeopardize my warranty at this point so I dont plan on turning the wick up with a boxed tune but is there anything that lets this deep breathe a little better? Without BMW warranty at issue that is.

SlickShift · 02-04-2010, 05:11 PM

This is #1 gripe about the 1-series. I love bringing cars to redline and feeling the power build. It's so unsatisfying when I get to 6K and the car falls on its face.

mtla4 · 02-04-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickShift

This is #1 gripe about the 1-series. I love bringing cars to redline and feeling the power build. It's so unsatisfying when I get to 6K and the car falls on its face.

Thats why I should have got an m3...btw congrats on the car NYC6.You already have a toy so its not that bad.

NYC6 · 02-04-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickShift

This is #1 gripe about the 1-series. I love bringing cars to redline and feeling the power build. It's so unsatisfying when I get to 6K and the car falls on its face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtla4

Thats why I should have got an m3...btw congrats on the car NYC6.You already have a toy so its not that bad.

Dont get me wrong, I like the car alot. I guess I am pretty jaded though. The Corvette is Super Charged and has 600+ BHP in a car that weighs less than the 135. Thats a weight to HP ratio of about 5.4:1! I'll enjoy the car the way it is for a while and maybe turn up the juice in the future.

BroDoze · 02-04-2010, 05:31 PM

As others have stated, the JB3 wakes this car the F up, bigtime.

In the end though, with tiny snails, comes tiny top-end.

I'm waiting for the big turbo swaps on the N54 - don't see too many of those.

That was the big thing for my STi - going with a GT35R or GT65R for monsterous top-end.

mtla4 · 02-04-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

As others have stated, the JB3 wakes this car the F up, bigtime.

In the end though, with tiny snails, comes tiny top-end.

I'm waiting for the big turbo swaps on the N54 - don't see too many of those.

That was the big thing for my STi - going with a GT35R or GT65R for monsterous top-end.

I hope that the N54 does not become the new B5 S4...(I'm a big time Audi fan). People used to slap piggies and then started to complain about turbo failures. Let's be honest a lot of (luxury brand)owners are not too mechanically inclined..compared to EVO,STI,GTI,MS3,etc owners

themyst · 02-04-2010, 05:52 PM

Threw my JB3 on at 1200 miles, didn't ever look back. You could do all the bolt-ons for some extra power or possibly a JB+ if you don't wanna mess with the ECU, but for the money you can't top the JB3. Personally bringing a car in with downpipes, intake and FMIC will raise more eyebrows at the dealer than the tune IMO. You can always put the tune in valet mode, but you can't hide aftermarket bolt-ons nearly as easily.

acivick · 02-04-2010, 06:06 PM

Is it more the torque leveling off or the actual power you're concerned with? On paper, even with my tune, peak torque is supposed to be around 4300RPM even though peak horsepower is at around 5700 RPM. For stock, they quote 5000RPM and 5800RPM, respectively.

Although, just looking at a Z06 now, it's 4800/6300, so it's not so much better, considering. Granted, it has an extra 200hp at 6300 though.

rock1t · 02-04-2010, 06:18 PM

yeah i was not impressed with the top end power stock either, even the day i drove it home from dealership..i was kinda surprised..
jb3 fixed that though.. but at the end of the day, bigger turbo's would be the way to go.
Hopefully it will get affordable in a few years.

555 · 02-04-2010, 09:58 PM

114-118MPH 1/4 mile suggests to me that the car has plenty of top end (this was done with just AA tune)

mtla4 · 02-04-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555

114-118MPH 1/4 mile suggests to me that the car has plenty of top end (this was done with just AA tune)

We're talking about powerband..there is no power past 5000-5500 rpm. Well there is but pointless to rev past that

NYC6 · 02-04-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555

114-118MPH 1/4 mile suggests to me that the car has plenty of top end (this was done with just AA tune)

Those are good trap speeds but Im concerned about stock right now. And even cars with hot tunes the dynos show the curve falling off way short of redline. It must be attributed to the small turbos. Im curious how the N55 will perform when someone figures out how to up the boost.

BrokenVert · 02-04-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC6

Those are good trap speeds but Im concerned about stock right now. And even cars with hot tunes the dynos show the curve falling off way short of redline. It must be attributed to the small turbos. Im curious how the N55 will perform when someone figures out how to up the boost.

HPF is developing a turbo upgrade for the N54. That should make some insane numbers up to redline.

BMW attributes the power dropoff as a way to increase the longevity of both the turbos and the engine. Dinan says the same thing. It still sucks though. You get this awesome punch from 3K until 5K and then its gone...thats why I shift at just past 6K. There is no point in going up to redline on this car.

NYC6 · 02-04-2010, 11:30 PM

Whos HPF? I'll keep my eyes open for them.
Those turbos are so small, even turning up the boost (JB3 lets say) a turbine that small can only flow so much at max pressure without building to much heat.

mtla4 · 02-05-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC6

Whos HPF? I'll keep my eyes open for them.
Those turbos are so small, even turning up the boost (JB3 lets say) a turbine that small can only flow so much at max pressure without building to much heat.

clived · 02-05-2010, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC6

Picked up my new 135 yesterday. Like it alot already but I'm a little surprised. Ran the tach up once or twice

Is that the new official running in procedure?

NYC6 · 02-05-2010, 07:01 AM

Racers adage "Break it in fast, It will always be fast"

I put about 200 miles on it and only brought it up over 5K twice(just for a second) just to get a taste. Didnt go as far as redline. New cars today dont require yesteryears long break in procedure. even though maufacturers give guidelines. Kind of like how MacDonalds lawyers have to warn us that coffee is hot and can cause burns.

02-04-2010, 04:10 PM	#1
NYC6 Banned 71 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)	Wheres the top end? Picked up my new 135 yesterday. Like it alot already but I'm a little surprised. Ran the tach up once or twice and the power tops out in the mid 5K range! Is it because of the small turbos not being able to make power that high? It seems like alot of the dynos I've seen showing cars with tunes( while making good numbers) also seem to stop making power well before the redline. Whats the point of having a redline at 7K if the HP peaks long before you get there?
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02-04-2010, 04:16 PM	#2
HPFREAK Lieutenant Colonel 63 Rep 1,884 Posts Drives: C6 ZO6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Socal iTrader: (8)	It is because the boost falls off in the stock tune after 5k. The tunes will fix a lot of that. In the JB3 on map 3 it will get around 13+psi and still fall off after 5k since it is still a conservative tune, but on map 5 it will get about 15psi and not fall off as much. i run my car on map 5 and it pulls to red line much better than map 3. Map 7 is even more aggressive and holds the boost even longer in the rpm range. What you are feeling is the safe factory tune but it is still new motor and will get better as time goes on. __________________ My Youtube Channel
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02-04-2010, 04:27 PM	#3
NYC6 Banned 71 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)	I never drove a car that falls on its face like that 2K RPM short of redline! Like I've read about the 135, it being a powerful midrange car that is a little unsatisfying at the top is on the money. I just didnt think it would be that pronounced. Its almost as if it hits a limiter. I dont want to jeopardize my warranty at this point so I dont plan on turning the wick up with a boxed tune but is there anything that lets this deep breathe a little better? Without BMW warranty at issue that is.
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02-04-2010, 04:38 PM	#4
miro2296 Colonel 57 Rep 2,251 Posts Drives: '08 Montego Blue BMW 135i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Round Rock, TX iTrader: (1)	JB3 will for surely resolve that! I know what you are talking about and with JB3 it pulls hard. __________________ ------------------------------------- BMW 135i/6 Speed/Montego Blue/Formula One Ceramic Tint/JB4 G4/AA Sport Intercooler/19 inch Iconz 880Z(19X8.5 & 19X10)/PSS 225/35 & 265/30/E93 M3 front sway bar/TRW front and rear Control Arms/BMS Drop In Filter/Dinan Exhaust/BlackLines/Upgraded \\\M RSFB
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02-04-2010, 04:41 PM	#5
jeremyc74 Banned 76 Rep 5,970 Posts Drives: '08 135i Montego/Terra Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0)	On the stock tune you're pretty much stuck with it. Coming from an LS2 GTO I noticed the same thing. Right where I was expecting the power to start coming on strong it started falling off. It's strange having to get used to shifting that much below redline. A tune and a set of catless pipes changes it a LOT, but of course you're risking the warranty. The N54 is great around town when it's stock, but unfortunatly it's lacking on the upper end of the RPM range.
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02-04-2010, 05:11 PM	#7
SlickShift Lieutenant Colonel 323 Rep 1,804 Posts Drives: '11 BMW E90 M3 ZCP, '21 X5 ZMP Join Date: May 2007 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (7)	This is #1 gripe about the 1-series. I love bringing cars to redline and feeling the power build. It's so unsatisfying when I get to 6K and the car falls on its face. __________________ -Nick 2018 BMW 440i - M Sport, Exec Glacier Silver Metallic/Coral Red Dakota Retired: '00 323i, '06 325Ci, '09 135i, '06 Z4M Roadster, '93 525i, '76 2002, '14 X1, '14 M235i, '16 X4, '16 435i
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02-04-2010, 05:31 PM	#10
BroDoze Captain 186 Rep 833 Posts Drives: Stuff Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	As others have stated, the JB3 wakes this car the F up, bigtime. In the end though, with tiny snails, comes tiny top-end. I'm waiting for the big turbo swaps on the N54 - don't see too many of those. That was the big thing for my STi - going with a GT35R or GT65R for monsterous top-end. __________________ ///M
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02-04-2010, 05:52 PM	#12
themyst Major General 177 Rep 6,631 Posts Drives: '16 MK7 GTI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (8)	Threw my JB3 on at 1200 miles, didn't ever look back. You could do all the bolt-ons for some extra power or possibly a JB+ if you don't wanna mess with the ECU, but for the money you can't top the JB3. Personally bringing a car in with downpipes, intake and FMIC will raise more eyebrows at the dealer than the tune IMO. You can always put the tune in valet mode, but you can't hide aftermarket bolt-ons nearly as easily. __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT
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02-04-2010, 06:06 PM	#13
acivick Lieutenant 10 Rep 446 Posts Drives: Dinan Sedona 135i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 135i [0.00]	Is it more the torque leveling off or the actual power you're concerned with? On paper, even with my tune, peak torque is supposed to be around 4300RPM even though peak horsepower is at around 5700 RPM. For stock, they quote 5000RPM and 5800RPM, respectively. Although, just looking at a Z06 now, it's 4800/6300, so it's not so much better, considering. Granted, it has an extra 200hp at 6300 though.
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02-04-2010, 06:18 PM	#14
rock1t Private 2 Rep 63 Posts Drives: 2010 135i Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: OC, CA iTrader: (1)	yeah i was not impressed with the top end power stock either, even the day i drove it home from dealership..i was kinda surprised.. jb3 fixed that though.. but at the end of the day, bigger turbo's would be the way to go. Hopefully it will get affordable in a few years.
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02-04-2010, 09:58 PM	#15
555 Doing it for TV! 10 Rep 182 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Melbourne iTrader: (0)	114-118MPH 1/4 mile suggests to me that the car has plenty of top end (this was done with just AA tune)
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02-04-2010, 11:30 PM	#19
NYC6 Banned 71 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)	Whos HPF? I'll keep my eyes open for them. Those turbos are so small, even turning up the boost (JB3 lets say) a turbine that small can only flow so much at max pressure without building to much heat.
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02-05-2010, 07:01 AM	#22
NYC6 Banned 71 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)	Racers adage "Break it in fast, It will always be fast" I put about 200 miles on it and only brought it up over 5K twice(just for a second) just to get a taste. Didnt go as far as redline. New cars today dont require yesteryears long break in procedure. even though maufacturers give guidelines. Kind of like how MacDonalds lawyers have to warn us that coffee is hot and can cause burns.
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