Michelin PSS on 135i with Stock Suspension

[champignon]

I have a slightly used 2013 6MT 135i with M-Sports Suspension and Sports Seats coming my way shortly. It has its original RFTs installed which I have been told by the selling dealer have "seen better days."

I'm not a modder in general and prefer not to change stuff on a vehicle other than maybe a shift knob, pedals, or a radio.

I took advantage of the Michelin $70 rebate on a set of 4 tires (expires today at Tirerack) and ordered a set of Michelin PSS in the stock sizes for this car, which I intend to have installed within a month or so. I may buy a separate set of rims with some winter tires later if I decide to use the vehicle in winter weather.

I have read some posts about some people being unhappy with the road feel and driveability of non-RFT on 1-Series cars unless they did suspension mods, which I would really prefer not to do. I have also read that some others preferred the non-run flat tires on the stock suspension with no other modifications, and others chose to inflate their non-run flat tires to a higher PSI as their only "mod" in order to use this type of tire on a 1-series with the stock suspension.

I can't find any useful recent threads on this and the search function was not very helpful.

What is the current consensus on this question, of using non-run flat tires, in this case PSS tires, on the stock suspension? I am considering the "M-Sports Suspension" to be a stock suspension in this case because it appears that virtually all of the latter production of the 135i came with the M-Sports Suspension.

Thanks in advance.

[JuanMata]

Your car sounds similar to mine - m suspension and seats... though mine is a DCT. I'm about to ditch my run flats as well. I opted for a set of Toyo Proxes T1 Sports in the stock, staggered sizes. I looked at the PSS and Continentals but the Proxes got good reviews and I ended up getting them for about $600. There was no way I was going to spend over a grand on RFT so hopefully the Toyo's will do the job since I will not be doing any suspension mods.

[Overpar56]

I have the PSS tires on stock rims except 225/40 on the front. Even after an alignment, I do get a bit more wander on the highway vs the RFT. You may also notice the rear bushings being pretty weak since the tires stick better.

I don't regret the purchase though. Tires do well on dry and wet pavement.

[NorthernDancer]

Just changed my Pirelli RFT's for Michelin PSS. Stock sport suspension. Just completed a 1 day BMW HPDE. Love, love, love the PSS. You donot need change anything.

[champignon]

What inflation pressures are you running on the non-run-flat tires? I got the impression from some long-ago posts that one might want to push the inflation pressure up a tad over what was in the run flats before.

thanks

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by champignon

What inflation pressures are you running on the non-run-flat tires? I got the impression from some long-ago posts that one might want to push the inflation pressure up a tad over what was in the run flats before.

thanks

I'm running 36 in the front, and 39 in the back on stock suspension and alignment save the rear subframe bushings that have been replaced with the M variants. The PSS have me completely satisfied, they're good at what tires are supposed to be good at. Only gripe is that the front tires wear out the sidewalls on the stock alignment, so you need to dial in some extra camber, but then you are golden.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

I'm running 36 in the front, and 39 in the back on stock suspension and alignment save the rear subframe bushings that have been replaced with the M variants. The PSS have me completely satisfied, they're good at what tires are supposed to be good at. Only gripe is that the front tires wear out the sidewalls on the stock alignment, so you need to dial in some extra camber, but then you are golden.

I bought these tires from Tire Rack, and they are to be delivered in a few days, before I lay eyes on the actual vehicle. Depending on how bad the run flats are when I get the car, I may run them for a couple of months before I toss them and then get the PSS installed. Most likely I'll take the car (still under warranty) to one of the Tire Rack recommended tire installers rather than to the dealer to get the PSS tires installed. I don't know if the BMW Warranty or Maintenance package includes front end alignments (I sort of doubt it) and i'm 99% sure that they would charge me to mount these tires so there is no reason to go them for the tire mount and balance, and probably not for the alignment, either.

What exactly should I say to the people who do the alignment, in order to get some "extra camber" dialed in on the fronts?

Thanks.

[6MT_Addict]

Originally Posted by Overpar56

I have the PSS tires on stock rims except 225/40 on the front. Even after an alignment, I do get a bit more wander on the highway vs the RFT. You may also notice the rear bushings being pretty weak since the tires stick better.

I don't regret the purchase though. Tires do well on dry and wet pavement.

+1 especially highways with deep tracks from heavy trucks lol. They are great tires though.

[Solo_M_Tech]

More grip exposes other factory weaknesses. I personally hate the soft, balloon like feeling you get on Non RFT and stock suspension. Tire pressures play the biggest role here. If it feels soft, it may need more air, up to a point. Eventually you will over inflate the tire, and balloon the contact patch, which will make the car drive all kinds of crazy. lol.

[Cavpilot2k]

I just ordered a set of MPSS in 225/255. I have stock suspension but with Whiteline SFB inserts (best $50 you can spend on this car, IMHO). I am expecting that the inserts will reduce the squishy feel some report, as they have already vastly improved back end stability.
I'll give my impressions next week.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

More grip exposes other factory weaknesses. I personally hate the soft, balloon like feeling you get on Non RFT and stock suspension. Tire pressures play the biggest role here. If it feels soft, it may need more air, up to a point. Eventually you will over inflate the tire, and balloon the contact patch, which will make the car drive all kinds of crazy. lol.

This!...like a million times. Be warned OP...changing just the tires without touching the stock msport suspension is a trainwreck. You will expose the weaknesses and introduce new ones. Car will feel floaty, steering will be touchy and you will get a feeling of excess body roll with the slightest input.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I just ordered a set of MPSS in 225/255. I have stock suspension but with Whiteline SFB inserts (best $50 you can spend on this car, IMHO). I am expecting that the inserts will reduce the squishy feel some report, as they have already vastly improved back end stability.
I'll give my impressions next week.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions. The inserts will help a lot.

[850tgul]

i would highly suggest getting the full rear subframe bushings from white line for $150. They are a a two piece design so they go in without the need of a bushing tool or completely dropping the subframe. I know others swear by them but I was very disappointed with the inserts. Didn't notice much of a difference tbh. The full kit goes in just as easily as the inserts, you just need to remove the stock bushings. Heat gun and gravity are your friend here. Not difficult but time consuming. i swapped them out for the full kit and have been very happy with them.

[Pissoff]

Here is one big reason for the difference in opinion on RFT's and non RFT's. Nobody seems to separate this discussion by wheel diameter. If you put on a set of 17" non RFT you are going way softer than what the difference is on a 19". The sidewall height makes a huge difference. I'm saying the disparity on a 17" between RFT and non RFT is much greater than on a 19". So if we want to have this discussion it needs to be sorted by wheel sizes.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by champignon

What exactly should I say to the people who do the alignment, in order to get some "extra camber" dialed in on the fronts?

Thanks.

Camber is a well known term by shops who offer alignment services, especially ones which frequently do work on sports cars. It's one of the main alignment specs: Caster, Camber, and Toe. Just tell your shop that you want the maximum allowable negative camber up front, and that they can get some extra camber range if they remove the strut tower alignment pins. There is one driver and one passenger, it is small, round, and to the side of the three strut tower bolts. Most people can get up to about -.7 degrees on stock hardware with the pins pulled.

Def give the runflats a college try. You probably won't like them, most people don't, but at least using them will give you a frame of reference to know how much of a difference using the right tire with this car makes. I actually got physically dizzy when I ran stock runflats because of how harsh and plastic of a tire they are. Soon as I swapped out for softer rubber, I never had that sensation again, but the ride is a lot softer, so I'm saving to invest in some upgrades which will bring the ride firmness to a nice medium.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by champignon

I have a slightly used 2013 6MT 135i with M-Sports Suspension and Sports Seats coming my way shortly. It has its original RFTs installed which I have been told by the selling dealer have "seen better days."

I'm not a modder in general and prefer not to change stuff on a vehicle other than maybe a shift knob, pedals, or a radio.

I took advantage of the Michelin $70 rebate on a set of 4 tires (expires today at Tirerack) and ordered a set of Michelin PSS in the stock sizes for this car, which I intend to have installed within a month or so. I may buy a separate set of rims with some winter tires later if I decide to use the vehicle in winter weather.

I have read some posts about some people being unhappy with the road feel and driveability of non-RFT on 1-Series cars unless they did suspension mods, which I would really prefer not to do. I have also read that some others preferred the non-run flat tires on the stock suspension with no other modifications, and others chose to inflate their non-run flat tires to a higher PSI as their only "mod" in order to use this type of tire on a 1-series with the stock suspension.

I can't find any useful recent threads on this and the search function was not very helpful.

What is the current consensus on this question, of using non-run flat tires, in this case PSS tires, on the stock suspension? I am considering the "M-Sports Suspension" to be a stock suspension in this case because it appears that virtually all of the latter production of the 135i came with the M-Sports Suspension.

Thanks in advance.

I had a completely stock car when I transistioned to the PSS from the stock RFT tires. It's an unbelievable difference. The car suddenly became more comfortable, handled better, and was more communicative. It also got rid of a lot of the floaty feeling the car has, and it was suddenly tolerable over bumps.

[lowbudgethero]

You lose a minor amount of turn in sharpness, but that's all, everything else was better imo and I don't miss the rfts one bit.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

i would highly suggest getting the full rear subframe bushings from white line for $150. They are a a two piece design so they go in without the need of a bushing tool or completely dropping the subframe. I know others swear by them but I was very disappointed with the inserts. Didn't notice much of a difference tbh. The full kit goes in just as easily as the inserts, you just need to remove the stock bushings. Heat gun and gravity are your friend here. Not difficult but time consuming. i swapped them out for the full kit and have been very happy with them.

Not a bad suggestion.
I have the inserts and while they aren't the end-all-be-all, they are a substantial improvement, especially if you hate that jumpy, unstable feeling in the back end when you hit uneven pavement in a high-speed turn like an on-off ramp.
I just got the inserts as a stop-gap measure though, as I plan to do the full M3 bushings when I do the BMW Perf. Suspension. Far easier and cheaper to do all that at once.

[litebulb]

What kind of pressures are you guys running? I think I've settled on 34/35 with 225/255 on my cabrio.

[Jonemw]

I have been running PSS in 225/255 on 18 inch 313 factory wheels for 4 years.
Car is 2011 135 m sport. To me there is simply no comparison between the rft and the pss. The car is far better on pss.
I ran rft on a z4 and they were stupid on that car too. Suspension on 135 is not modded,but I would like to do rear bushings soon. I run slightly elevated pressures from stock.

[champignon]

Thanks to everyone for all the great responses. Please do keep them coming!

[JuanMata]

Got my Toyo Proxes T1 Sports in stock sizes mounted today and cannot believe the positive difference in ride and comfort they make. As others have mentioned in numerous threads, non RFT really do transform the 1. I was concerned driving out of the installer's parking lot after reading numerous threads on non run flats and possible suspension & drivability changes but after a drive on one of my favorite roads it became apparent that I had nothing to worry about. My car is a daily driver and I know these tires are going to make it even more enjoyable to drive commuting to and from work. Everyone is looking for something different from their cars but I'm quite satisfied with the Toyos and my stock suspension.