Last minute negotiating at delivery? Need advice!

[twelveup]

I'm about to take delivery (tomorrow PM) of my '09 135i. I'm excited but annoyed. Originally negotiated $1,200 off MSRP, but this was back in early July, when the dealer thought he could get an '08 that met my specs. He couldn't get the car and I ended up ordering what turned out to be an '09. He swore up and down he would "take care of me" and "do his best" when the car arrived, and I really thought after all the damn delay (including the last 3+ weeks of the car sitting in Newark awaiting CARB approval), he might give me a little more off on the price. No such luck of course. He knows I want the car and he has my $1,000 deposit. But since I ordered, the economy and the stock market have gone to hell and he has told me he delivered less than half his normal # of cars in September. So I should have some negotiating leverage, right? Any ideas how I might be able to get a better deal and still drive my car home tomorrow?

[tekm3]

If you made a deal you made deal. How would you feel if he told you now its $1000 more because he has lot of people asking for it? I bet you would not like that at all...

Have integrity and character. You can ask for some freebies but in essence you made a deal and unless he does not honor it you really don't have grounds for re-negotiating...

[pheller]

Had you already signed the sales order and given the deposit before being told you'd be getting an 09, and not with the options you wanted?

Then you certainly have some recourse, as the vehicle was misrepresented.

However, if you have previously agreed to the car's options and model year, i.e., if you told him "that sucks, but ok" in regards to the inability to delivery an 08, then you'll probably have to live with it.

The best time for negotiation is right when you learn they cannot satisfy your original order.

Good luck!

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by pheller

The best time for negotiation is right when you learn they cannot satisfy your original order.

Exactly. Sounds like you may have missed the boat. Cant hurt to try again though, but dont expect to get anything.

[gio]

It depends on the state. In some states the deposit is refundable by law and you can order a car, they can build it and then you can decide you don't want it and walk away and get your deposit back. That gives you a lot of negotiation power but not if the dealer doesn't actually believe you are going to walk away. The only way you'll be able to negotiate anything is if you are prepared to walk away and it doesn't seem like you are and probably the dealer knows that.

Dealers are giving good deals on 09s right now because the economy is bad and last month was the month with the LOWEST American car sales in 15 years.

I think you are stuck. You can ask the dealer nicely to lower the price but I really doubt he will and you have no leverage. Don't blame the dealer though, you were just really unlucky when you ordered and you should never ever trust the dealer to "help you out" unless you get it in writing or some kind of firm verbal commitment as to exactly how much he will discount the price.

If it really bothers you that much, than I would say walk away and place another order at another dealer. You'll probably be able to get a good deal right now. The other question is did you finance through the dealer? Right now there are great 0.9% deals on 08s (not true for 09s right now). If you got one of those deals for your 09 coming in tomorrow then I would say you made out pretty well. New 09s aren't going to have anywhere near that good of a deal when new rates are announce Nov 1st.

[twelveup]

Hey, dexpert, this is business and a negotiation, not a theological discussion. With all due respect to the salesmen on this board, this IS a salesman we're talking about here! He's tried to take advantage of me several different ways over the last 4 months, some subtle and some not so subtle. When I'm told I'll be "taken care of" and he feels terrible for the awful delay, I expect at least a token when the delivery actually takes place. After all, I AM paying $700 more for the privilege of waiting 4 months for this car.

[twelveup]

Thanks Gio. Good input. I realize I'm probably stuck. But at the same time, I can probably walk away from my $1,000 and come away net ahead if I'm willing to wait for another car.

[BMW F22]

This situation has been brought up a lot in recent weeks. The consensus is that if the difference is a few hundred bucks then you should just keep the deal. If the difference is about $800+ then you should renegotiate. If that latter is the case you will have to decide whether your integrity is worth more (which most people would find is not the case).

Also realize that some dealers do not provide loaners to customers that did not buy the cars from them. That and you might get a worse deal elsewhere.

[Dave Mac]

How did he take advantage of you when you have not purchased the car yet? Is he still offering you the $1,200 off? He doesn't owe you anything for the delay, ALL of our cars were delayed by a Govt agency, not BMW.

Unfortunately you have no real leverage at this point. BMW is cutting supply to BMW USA for 2009 so that they have to sell more cars at list price to make $. If you don't take the car they'll keep it and sell it for more.

[twelveup]

Not knowing what the cost of the '09's would be at the time of the order, I took his promises as a gesture of good will that he would do something more than the original $1200 off based on the increased price of the car, given he had failed to get the '08 that he had originally promised (and for which I put down the deposit). Another example... I want to transfer plates from my trade. He was going to charge me $160 to do this, which is more than a new registration in my state costs. I had to waste time checking the DMV and calling him to get him to reduce this charge to the correct $45. Now, I don't hold a grudge. He's doing his job, which is maximize revenue. I'm doing mine, which is to try to get a good deal. I just think I've done a lousy job of it.

[audi2bmw1]

i wouldnt complain about the price...the best deal people are my area are getting becuz the high demand is 500 off msrp and free floor mats...wow...i was super pissed but in the end i know they will kiss my ass if shit hits the fan and give me watever i want....

[ptack]

Step 1 - know your legal situation, especially regarding your deposit.
Step 2 - decide before you go there whether you are prepared to walk away. You don't have much time, but you really need to see what kind of deal you could get at another dealer. The other option is a different car.
Step 3 - remember that you still have the 40 or so thousand dollars that they want. Don't take it personal, but you don't want to let the whole experience spoil your expected enjoyment of getting a new car. Be reasonable (BMW did intend to raise prices for everyone - though they should have notified you of that as soon as they had the 09 costs), but if you honestly feel you can't trust them - walk. Would you want to keep going to a dealer you don't like? Sorry it's not a better situation.

[Dave Mac]

Originally Posted by twelveup

Not knowing what the cost of the '09's would be at the time of the order, I took his promises as a gesture of good will that he would do something more than the original $1200 off based on the increased price of the car, given he had failed to get the '08 that he had originally promised (and for which I put down the deposit). Another example... I want to transfer plates from my trade. He was going to charge me $160 to do this, which is more than a new registration in my state costs. I had to waste time checking the DMV and calling him to get him to reduce this charge to the correct $45. Now, I don't hold a grudge. He's doing his job, which is maximize revenue. I'm doing mine, which is to try to get a good deal. I just think I've done a lousy job of it.

The best you can really hope for the the 1,200 off. That's actually a pretty darn good price on the 135. The transfer fee is flaky on his part. Definately not cool. Kick him in the nuts for that.

[dbtheo]

Although I can't speak to the plate fees (probably isn't up to him). The hold up of the car & such is no where near his fault. My feeling (as a customer) is, if you are that unhappy with his service thus far, & feel that you deserve a "better" deal, then fine, get your money back & go elsewhere.


As a CA, my feeling is, if we negotiated a deal, ordered a car, got it here, and I did all I could reasonably do (based on things within my control). If you try change the deal at the last second, I'm letting you walk & will sell the car to someone else.

[Steelerbimmer]

I am picking up my 2008 135i coupe tomorrow.

I made a last minute change last week to purchase a 2008 instead of my 2009 that just arrived.

I did it because of the .09% financing.

I was able to get the same silver exterior but with black and silver interior instead of the terra and walnut interior.

The 08 has more options with a price difference of $1,400 more.

However, with the "cheap" money and not having to pay cash as I was going to, I am investing the difference in a 5% 5 yr. CD and at the end of 5 yrs. with a gain of $8,000 after taxes and interest on the "cheap" loan I am way ahead.

The difference in resale value between the more optioned '08 and '09 will be about $1,500 less over that time.

I saw the 2008 being tinted yesterday and it looked fantastic.

Silver and black, I may become a Raiders fan...NOT!

[Dave Mac]

Originally Posted by dbtheo

Although I can't speak to the plate fees (probably isn't up to him). The hold up of the car & such is no where near his fault. My feeling (as a customer) is, if you are that unhappy with his service thus far, & feel that you deserve a "better" deal, then fine, get your money back & go elsewhere.


As a CA, my feeling is, if we negotiated a deal, ordered a car, got it here, and I did all I could reasonably do (based on things within my control). If you try change the deal at the last second, I'm letting you walk & will sell the car to someone else.

Well said. I've had nothing but good experiences so far with my BMW peeps. I've raced with most of the guys I'm working with so it makes things easier too.

Dave

[future135i]

Originally Posted by Steelerbimmer

I am picking up my 2008 135i coupe tomorrow.

I made a last minute change last week to purchase a 2008 instead of my 2009 that just arrived.

I did it because of the .09% financing.

I was able to get the same silver exterior but with black and silver interior instead of the terra and walnut interior.

The 08 has more options with a price difference of $1,400 more.

However, with the "cheap" money and not having to pay cash as I was going to, I am investing the difference in a 5% 5 yr. CD and at the end of 5 yrs. with a gain of $8,000 after taxes and interest on the "cheap" loan I am way ahead.

The difference in resale value between the more optioned '08 and '09 will be about $1,500 less over that time.

I saw the 2008 being tinted yesterday and it looked fantastic.

Silver and black, I may become a Raiders fan...NOT!

how do you come out $8000 ahead? that's a big swing.

[maddad]

He mentioned he was going to pay "cash" for the car. Say it's $40,000. A $40,000 invested in a 5% CD will net him $2000 a year or $10,000 after 5 years, less the interest payed to finance the car at .09%...and he's at an approx
$8,000 advantage. When the interest rate on borrowed money is less than the interest you can make by investting it in gauranteed interest, your better off taking the fianancing and investing the money.

R.

[ARES45]

My .02,

If they told you they could get you a 08 for $1200 off of msrp and lets just say that msrp for the car you wanted was $41200, this means they were selling the car with the options you wanted for $40000. I would consider the salesman 'taking care of me' statement to mean that the 09 with the same specs as the 08 you wanted should be sold to you for $40000 and the dealership can absorb the difference in profit. After all they promised something they couldn't deliver and they should still make money on the deal just not as much.

This seems like a fair deal to me and would be acceptable compensation. Tell them you agreed on 1200 off 08 msrp not 09 (unless you agreed on 09 as well which I am guessing you did). As for the extra month, tell them you understand it is not their fault but it did leave a bad taste in your mouth that may prevent you from giving the experience 100% positive feedback on any satisfaction surveys. Have a couple of freebees in mind that would bump that number up to a 100%.

In the end 1200 off is 1200 better than what I got but I have 7 months of happy ownership to make up for it.

One more piece, don't give anyone 40k for an experience and product you're not 100% satisfied with.

[twelveup]

Thanks for all the good feedback on this thread. I picked up the car Thursday night and have been too busy driving it to check the thread until now. What a GREAT car! In the end, I got the $1,200 off and a GREAT car. Have I mentioned it's a GREAT car?

[Steelerbimmer]

Originally Posted by maddad

He mentioned he was going to pay "cash" for the car. Say it's $40,000. A $40,000 invested in a 5% CD will net him $2000 a year or $10,000 after 5 years, less the interest payed to finance the car at .09%...and he's at an approx
$8,000 advantage. When the interest rate on borrowed money is less than the interest you can make by investting it in gauranteed interest, your better off taking the fianancing and investing the money.

R.

Exactamondo!

Well said and correct.

The difference between the resale price of '08 and '09 will be far less than the net interest earned over 5 years.

Even when including the interest paid on the loan and the taxes paid on the interest gained.

The time value of money does apply here.

[future135i]

Originally Posted by Steelerbimmer

Exactamondo!

Well said and correct.

The difference between the resale price of '08 and '09 will be far less than the net interest earned over 5 years.

Even when including the interest paid on the loan and the taxes paid on the interest gained.

The time value of money does apply here.

If I had 40K cash...I would do that. However, dealer ordered 08 models have too many options, wrong colors, automaitc transmission, etc...