BMW Car Magazine article - M Grudge Match: 1M vs Tuned 135i

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

I hate to bring this up but on my last track outing I let a pro driver take my car out for a few laps. That same day he drove a 1M. He was 1.3 sec faster with my car. I don't have a tune but my suspension is upgraded and I was wearing R comps. here is his fast lap

Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.

[cooler2442]

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.

So tires made up for 35horsepower, 69overboosted torque, LSD, etc? 1.3 seconds is huge in the racing world. At SoCal tracks here 1-2 seconds determines times between an M3 and and M3 that has spent 20k in upgrades.


I stand by my original statement that even with a tune, the modded 135i would be faster on a track due to superior aftermarket parts compared to stock 1M parts.

[cooler2442]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Keep telling your self that

Don't need to, if Pixelblue's car was faster around the track due to his aftermarket suspension yet having no tune so being down in power but better tires then its already basically proven.

[tkbr0wn]

Correct, 1.3 seconds is huge in the RACING world. Where everyone is on racing tires. Comparing times from cars with street tires to r-comps is silly.

[cooler2442]

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

Correct, 1.3 seconds is huge in the RACING world. Where everyone is on racing tires. Comparing times from cars with street tires to r-comps is silly.

I would agree with you if his car had a tune or even LSD. But it didn't. So it was down 35hp, 69 torque, LSD, other miscellaneous bits? Isn't that a big advantage in the 1M's favor as much as having R compounds in the 135i's favor?

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by cooler2442

I would agree with you if his car had a tune or even LSD. But it didn't. So it was down 35hp, 69 torque, LSD, other miscellaneous bits? Isn't that a big advantage in the 1M's favor as much as having R compounds in the 135i's favor?

Depends on the track.

[emack]

.............................but at the end of the day, its still a 135i

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.

From R compounds vs PS2s? Well more than 1.3 seconds on a 1:30 track.

Grass Roots Motorsports did a test recently comparing an R compound to an "extreme performance" SCCA cheater "street tire" (much faster than a PS2 on track) and found a 1.8 second difference between them on a 1 minute lap. On a 50% longer course you'd easily expect a 2-3 second difference between an R compound and a PS2.

[ozinaldo]

Ain't that a bitch (I mean tires)

What were we talking again?

Apples to oranges, driven by who-knows-who in neverland!

That's real scientific contribution!

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Ain't that a bitch (I mean tires)

What were we talking again?

Apples to oranges, driven by who-knows-who in neverland!

That's real scientific contribution!

No it wasn't vettel but it was a pro driver driving both cars on the same track on the same day. Can't get more objective than that for what it's worth!

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

No it wasn't vettel but it was a pro driver driving both cars on the same track on the same day. Can't get more objective than that for what it's worth!

Not worth much considering the tire difference.

[bvez3ro]

@ianf2002

Auto Motor und Sports mixed up the data for the 100-0 km/h Braketest for the GTS.
The GTS brakes better when the Brakes are warm. :-)

[jnm]

Pixel blue, what they are saying is that all the extra power, torque, and LSDs in the world won't help you go faster once you have reached the limit of grip of the tire, and there's such a difference in grip between an R compound and a street compound tire to negate any other 'tuning' effect between two 1 series with almost the same engine and same driver... And probably the better the driver the more he will be able to exploit the extra grip in the tires.

[bimmer ///man]

Originally Posted by robertm

I am not one of the people that thinks tweaking a 135 is dumb. I think they are great cars and wholeheartedly agree whoever spends the most money on their car will usually win whatever the challenge is supposed to be.

I have to disagree with your dumbing down of what BMW had to do to create the 1M though. First they changed the front left and right fenders. Then the inner shrouds. Then the rear fenders and inner shrouds. Then the valance below the rear bumper. Then the front bumper. That is no small amount of work. Then they redid the interior to what you see now. That includes stitching on all seats, door cards, door handles, shift boot, dash inlay and probably a few things I'm not counting. Then they redid the axleback exhaust. Then they replaced all suspension with M3 pieces. Spring rates are different, not sure about dampening. I believe the front subrfame is a hybid design, don’t know about rear. Then the engine was fitted with a different transmission. Then they added M3 brakes. Then they added new brake ecu. Then they changed the valve cover. Then they changed some cooling bits (fan speed or something like that, minor stuff I believe). Then they redid the ECU to work with new diff, new tranny, new brakes, new power package (same as 135is power), new M button, new brakes and possibly new traction control parameters. I’m sure there are a few dozen smaller things that I am overlooking or don’t even realize.

Added up that is a tremendous amount of work. Please don't fool yourself into thinking it’s not. I hate to make assumptions but I'm going to assume you do not work in the engineering or design fields. If you did you would appreciate just how much effort and testing went into putting all that together and realize how benighted thinking otherwise truly is.

Body work isn't hard. They have giant presses and computers that stamp out the fenders like a cookie cutter. Have you watched their factory videos? Bumpers are just injected molded. Once again, not a feat that M was the only one able to complete.

The interior?? Please. It is the same leather that is used in the 135i. They just had to switch the thread that was being ran through the machine. I guarantee that the interior was easy. At any interior shop, aside from restitching the seats, all the other pieces could be knocked out in a day once the materials are in hand by hand.

Exhaust isn't hard to do, and personally it is a bit quite. It is high flowing though. Bolting parts on is not hard. Any shop can do it so I don't see how that argument comes into play. Front subframe is stock 135i. The rear subframe is an M3 subframe that will bolt into any 135/335. Transmission is the same manual transmission from any N55 6 speed 135/335. They had to change the valve cover??? That one must have been a real brain teaser... They even put the powered by M sticker on backwards. It does not have a new diff and brakes, these were pulled straight off the M3 assembly line. The ECU is programming is near identical to the z4is and 335is. The M button simply changed the drive by wire parameters, giving more throttle input for the same amount of foot input. Started back on the e46 m3 and nothing that a Sprint Booster can't match on a 135.

Where is the TREMENDOUS amount of work? Aside from the new exhaust and lightweight flywheel, NOTHING mechanical had to be designed.

[bimmer ///man]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

If you say so... sounds like you are bitter ... an M is an M, purpose built.

My modded 135 will not keep up with an 1M on the track... in a straight line it is quicker. I recently saw a modded 135 and 1M swap drivers at a track and 1M still was quicker with each driver. A piggyback tune is also never going to give a linear power delivery like a flash tune or the 1M's factory tune.

In this article they should have done some lap times!

Yea, real bitter...you nailed it. Resorting to personal retorts already? Lol

If the M is SO purpose built, why would they install a plastic charge pipe that pops off...REAL purpose built. When was the last time you ever heard of an M car popping parts off the engine?

Lol, solid argument. "I saw a 135 that looked modded but have no idea what mods it had and the 1M beat it. Therefore, all modded 135s must be slower than 1Ms due to my experience."

How thick headed are you? What do you think the 1M's tune is? It is a flash/upload/coding. BMW took the stock n54 tune, modified it and then flashed the 1M's ecu after testing and new parameters. The same thing that GIAC can do. Piggybacks can deliver linear power, where they usually fall is on off throttle response situations as well as stop and go.

You are speaking out of the wrong end. If you don't know, don't spread BS.

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Doubt that, put the car's on equal rubber

BUT, BUT, BUT it's a 1M!

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

Not worth much considering the tire difference.

Doesn't matter, the 1M should always win. It was hand crafted and forged exclusively at M.

[bimmer ///man]

Which one is not like the other (valve covers)?

I will say it again, I love the 1M, not for it's M badge but for its performance and what it offers. All of you with your head up your you know what because it has an M badge are ridiculous.

You'd think that if it was "purpose built' at M, that they would know how to put the valve cover badge on the right way, since they have been doing it that way since the beginning.

s14


s38


s52


s50b32


N54

[dean_g]

havent read most of this .. skimmed through a few posts. you guys with the 135's need to stop be happy with the car you have and give up on this battle because at the end of the day you still have a 135 (which is an amazing car but not quite a 1M.)

Point #1 -- the 1M is a prestigious car solely on the fact that there is a limited number.

Point #2 -- are you guys really going to argue and say that a 135 is faster with after market parts and a tune. -- come on now. i can go out buy a honda civic for 5 grand put in 40k worth of work and have a car that can take on your the 135 and 1M all day on the track in a straight line.

Point #3 -- You guys could also start up the argument that an e9x m3 isn't worth it ! ... you know i could just go buy myself a used 335 change suspension, get lsd, tune it, change the tires and then I can beat an m3 also. but at the end of the day it will still be a 335 or a 135 or a honda civic (not saying any of those are bad cars! but just saying they aren't M worthy)

Done with my little rant.

Oh and for the record.

I have owned an e92 m3 -- an n54 135i and -- now awaiting the 1M.

On a side note. when i had both the m3 and the 135 -- i said plenty of times .. man if only i could combine these two cars it would be the ideal car. ... GUESS BMW HEARD ME

Best,
Chris

[bimmer ///man]

Now the 135 is a civic? LOL, you're right.

Point #4 -- The M3 guys can say the same thing what M did to the 1M. Sure you can start with a 135, add a tune, better brakes, etc but at the end of the day it's still just a 1 series.

[dean_g]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

Now the 135 is a civic? LOL, you're right.

Point #4 -- The M3 guys can say the same thing what M did to the 1M. Sure you can start with a 135, add a tune, better brakes, etc but at the end of the day it's still just a 1 series.

Never said the 135 is a civic .. my point is you can mod just about any car to beat any other GRANTED you have the funds.

[bimmer ///man]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

did that take you a while to think up?..Not even worth responding to such ignorance and you are mistaken on so many points...do some research instead of taking pretty pics of engine covers... IMO the 1M is superior

Yes, because the time frame in which I respond determines the validity of my response. I don't live on the forums like some people (cough, cough). Impressive though, you managed to respond with 30 minutes of my post.

Not worth responding because you have no response? You are displaying all the classic signatures of someone that has lost an argument but won't concede.

Prove me wrong since I am so mistaken...unless you can't.

[dean_g]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

Point #4 -- The M3 guys can say the same thing what M did to the 1M. Sure you can start with a 135, add a tune, better brakes, etc but at the end of the day it's still just a 1 series.

HOW can you say at the end of the day it is still a 1 series? this wasn't something done up by just another car enthusiast out there it was done by BMW themselves. They put this car together and called it a 1M not you nor I.

Just look at the car aesthetically does it look like a normal 1 series?
Just in that aspect something was done to differentiate and make it an M-car.

[Dee Pee]

This reminds me of the pissing contest from the Roadfly forums several years ago when a few of the 3.0L Z3 drivers were bashing the S54 M Roadster guys (like me). FWIW my thoughts on the matter were that I only buy M cars because BMW purposely builds them to be special. When people mention the flaws in the 1M (like the HPFP and charge pipe issues), I remind them that the S52 and S54 M Roadsters were not without flaws either (engines blowing up, rear differential weld points tearing from the torque, the semi trailing arm rear suspension, etc).

I can't fault anyone for doing tasteful mods to their car, nor can I fault those lucky few of us that own M cars for holding our heads a little higher when describing our ride. What bugs me is when magazines bait people into the same old "it's not an M" debate with comparos like these. The same thing happens with Audi S and RS, AMG, and every other marque that builds a specialty line. It's a divisive, sycophantic, and ultimately pointless tactic designed to sell magazines to the widest demographic (1 series and 1M owners combined).