New 135i coming. Looking for help with autox classing and suspension.

[boarderofsnow86]

I am selling my current 2009 135i 6 speed and picking up a 2012 135i DCT in the next couple weeks. My current car is getting up there in miles and I found a really low mileage one with the DCT and about 5 years left on the warranty so I'm getting it.

I ran the current car for a season in DS class Autox before putting a few mods on it and doing a few events in the mod class and a couple track days. I have the M bits (front arms, rear arms, sub frame bushings) installed now. Under the rules with those mods I had to run in a different class. The DS class near me is not competitive at all. Some events I was the only person running it. When I ran mod I had a lot more fun. This year the 135 is going to be in F class and by the looks of it that class with by just as noncompetitive as D. So I'm thinking about going to ASP class. Is anyone planning on running ASP this year? If so, what does your setup look like? Also, I won't be driving this car much so I'm not really concerned with NVH.

I've budgeted out the setup with bushings, arms, lsd, blah blah but I haven't really decided on a coil over setup. So I'm looking for opinions on those from an autox standpoint.

My plan for this year is to run the NCR region scca solo events and probably a track day or to at VIR.

Thanks.

[jafo1701]

I ran ASP last year....got smoked. Of course I'm more of a track guy. Nothing fancy on my car. Swift sports springs, koni yellows. M3 bits, almost all of em. Dinan camber plates. BMW performance power kit and ETS intercooler. Ran RS3s on Apex ARC8s 235/255. And adding an LSD this year. I only do around 4 autocrosses a year though. Do around 4 to 6 track events per year.

[fcman]

The only real options are FS, ASP, and STU. STU and ASP most guys will leave the 135 in the dust. We only have about 4-5 guys that show up for FS in atlanta though so I feel your pain, but at least I come in 1st every time.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by fcman

The only real options are FS, ASP, and STU. STU and ASP most guys will leave the 135 in the dust. We only have about 4-5 guys that show up for FS in atlanta though so I feel your pain, but at least I come in 1st every time.

And we all know if you're NOT first you're LAST!

[Kgolf31]

ASP is dominated by EVOs and Subarus, STU will be destroyed by (IMO) 350z and the C5...with perhaps the E36M sneaking back into contention.

You cannot fit enough tire in STU trim to make the car work, and without AWD in ASP it's an uphill battle.

The 135i is classed in no mans land unfortunately. One of the main reasons why I decided to pick up a 128i to prep for STX

[DietTab]

My car is competitive in ASP. You can bring more power to the track then anything else in the class by a large margin with an e85 protune (100+hp). Wide R comp tires, LSD, a ton of camber, and good suspension and you'll be fine.

[boarderofsnow86]

Thanks for the input. I'm probably going to stick in FS this year and then ASP next year. Depending on how the classes work out next year. Tracks are a pain to get to near me but I'm going to try and do some more track events and get some more instruction this year as well.

[DietTab]

Biggest two things you can do is max out the strut towers for camber (slot the holes until the nuts touch the centerpiece) and adding big tires.

Slotting the shock towers is stock class legal. Highly recommend.

[The Nebulizer]

Originally Posted by DietTab

My car is competitive in ASP. You can bring more power to the track then anything else in the class by a large margin with an e85 protune (100+hp). Wide R comp tires, LSD, a ton of camber, and good suspension and you'll be fine.

An ASP Evo will kill a 135i.

Originally Posted by DietTab

Biggest two things you can do is max out the strut towers for camber (slot the holes until the nuts touch the centerpiece) and adding big tires.

Slotting the shock towers is stock class legal. Highly recommend.

No. Slotting the shock towers is NOT street class legal.

I recently bought a low option, manual, M sport, 135i that I plan to mildly prep for FStreet. I think the car can be modestly competitive in this class. I don't think it has even a slight chance in any other class.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

And we all know if you're NOT first you're LAST

Thats what I wear when I drive. With a giant Fig Newtons windshield banner

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by The Nebulizer

An ASP Evo will kill a 135i.

No. Slotting the shock towers is NOT street class legal.

I recently bought a low option, manual, M sport, 135i that I plan to mildly prep for FStreet. I think the car can be modestly competitive in this class. I don't think it has even a slight chance in any other class.

Slotting the shock towers is allowed by the BMW FSM (See Street, 13.8b, OR 13.8e, whichever you want to make your argument on), thus is legal in stock class.

"...removal of material to enlarge mounting holes, and
similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are
permitted even if outside the normal specification or range of specifications
recommended by the manufacturer."

I don't buy for half a second that the evo is immensely more competitive then the 135, only that there are so few 135s even remotely setup for competition that you don't see them around. Truthfully off the shelf parts are even today still just becoming available - that have been available to the boost buggy market since day 0. I relish bringing 100 horsepower more then the evos and stis to the racetrack. Some days it benefits a lot, others not at all.

[The Nebulizer]

Originally Posted by DietTab

Slotting the shock towers is allowed by the BMW FSM (See Street, 13.8b, OR 13.8e, whichever you want to make your argument on), thus is legal in stock class.

"...removal of material to enlarge mounting holes, and
similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are
permitted even if outside the normal specification or range of specifications
recommended by the manufacturer."

Can you cite the FSM relating to slotting the struts?
I don't think this interpretation is correct, but I would love to be proven wrong.

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by The Nebulizer

Can you cite the FSM relating to slotting the struts?
I don't think this interpretation is correct, but I would love to be proven wrong.

FSM is needed for 13.8b, which stipulates the allowance being needed per the FSM, but not the 13.8e allowance, which is seperate, either way. The beauty of an ambiguous rulebook. I don't have a digital copy of the FSM.

I used fixed plates, and have almost 4 degrees of camber. It's a beautiful thing.

[The Nebulizer]

According to SAC member I just asked:
"you need to buy the FSM and confirm that's a fix."
"I'm 99.99999% sure it is not"

I would love to be able to slot my strut towers, but I do not believe it is legal. I've seen the fsm for the e46 M3 (very similar front strut design) and it has a camber range with a maximum value. That maximum is easily reached without slotting the struts.

[DietTab]

13.8e does not require FSM per the 2015 rules.

[The Nebulizer]

Originally Posted by DietTab

13.8e does not require FSM per the 2015 rules.

I just spoke with my SAC friend some more and got clarification that 13.8.e does refer to FSM with the phrase "If offered by the manufacturer...". Unfortunately slotting the struts is illegal unless the FSM should make direct mention of this as a method for alignment (which he and I are 99% certain it does not - not even worth paying the fee to make sure).

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by The Nebulizer

I just spoke with my SAC friend some more and got clarification that 13.8.e does refer to FSM with the phrase "If offered by the manufacturer...". Unfortunately slotting the struts is illegal unless the FSM should make direct mention of this as a method for alignment (which he and I are 99% certain it does not - not even worth paying the fee to make sure).

This is 100% correct.

Unlike a Shelby GT, where the front shocks actually have marks to REMOVE material for alignment, no BMW ever has had these.


If it doesn't explicitly say you can do it...then you cannot do it.

Ambiguous rulebook or not, if it does not clearly state something then you cannot do it.




Also, 2014 National Results.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...Results%20.pdf

Look at ASP.

BMW 1M (which can fit more tire than a 135i) was basically 5 seconds back from a STi

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

This is 100% correct.

Unlike a Shelby GT, where the front shocks actually have marks to REMOVE material for alignment, no BMW ever has had these.


If it doesn't explicitly say you can do it...then you cannot do it.

Ambiguous rulebook or not, if it does not clearly state something then you cannot do it.




Also, 2014 National Results.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...Results%20.pdf

Look at ASP.

BMW 1M (which can fit more tire than a 135i) was basically 5 seconds back from a STi

Which doesn't really tell anything tangible about either car, or driver.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by DietTab

Which doesn't really tell anything tangible about either car, or driver.

Really?

Dude, get it through your head...the 135i is NOT COMPETITIVE in ASP, STU, or FS

If you really want to find what everyone else things, post here.

http://www.roadraceautox.com/forumdi...?2-The-Paddock


2014 Nationals is not something to mess around with. It's the biggest scene in Solo.


This is the said car.

Don't mind the rear wing or anything....




They traveled all the way from PA. The trip to Nationals from Ohio is 13 hours. PA is much further.


Some people will never understand

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Really?

Dude, get it through your head...the 135i is NOT COMPETITIVE in ASP, STU, or FS

If you really want to find what everyone else things, post here.

http://www.roadraceautox.com/forumdi...?2-The-Paddock

Some people will never understand

Winning nationals and being competitive at a local event are not even remotely related

That being said, we're building an exocet with a V8 we hope to compete with in AM in Kansas. Should be a riot at 1600lbs

[fcman]

Originally Posted by DietTab

Winning nationals and being competitive at a local event are not even remotely related

It's also a bit naive to assume that everyone who runs nationals are the best drivers in their region. Many (not all) of the people from Atlanta that run Champ Tour events are not even close to being the fastest in their classes and pax in the middle of the pack overall.

[z3papa]

Let's be clear - you slot your strut mounting holes in Street classes, and will likely draw a fair amount of attention from those guys who pulled their pins and prayed for a little camber. A few years ago, I was a big advocate for camber allowances in stock/street, but alas, it was shot down. To circumvent the rule by a strained interpretation will go over like a brick.