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      02-04-2013, 07:40 PM   #1
zayzay
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Forge Intercooler

what do you guys think of the forge intercooler and how much horsepower do you think it would add to a stock 1m?
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      02-04-2013, 08:00 PM   #2
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Intercoolers don't produce HP, they preserve it by reducing heat soak.
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      02-04-2013, 08:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
Intercoolers don't produce HP, they preserve it by reducing heat soak.
+1

Forge is a very nice unit though, but not cheap.

If you aren't running a tune or tracking the car, then stock FMIC will suffice
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      02-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #4
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then how come some companies like ets, evolution racewerks and active autowerkes are claiming horsepower increases of 20 hp or more?
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      02-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zayzay View Post
then how come some companies like ets, evolution racewerks and active autowerkes are claiming horsepower increases of 20 hp or more?
think of it this way. the car will do things like pull timing if the car isnt able to hit its boost / timing targets and detects things like knock / detonation. timing pull causes dips in power, and the car to run much less smoothly.

this can be caused by excessive heat among other things.

the new more efficient FMIC can lower these air intake temperatures, ensuring that the car gets cooler and denser air to keep temps down and avoid timing corrections.

the most gains will be seen from a tune where the tuner will be able to push the car a little harder and hold more boost to redline because of the more efficient cooling capabilities.

in addition, the consistency gained from the more efficient FMIC is a substantial improvement. this can be seen on the track among other places.
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      02-05-2013, 09:28 AM   #6
zayzay
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what do you think of forge intercooler compared to other intercoolers being offered for the 1m?
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      02-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #7
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There is no need to upgrade your intercooler if:
1. You're not going to run a tune
2. You're not going to track your car
3. You live in a climate where summer daytime outside temperatures average below 85 degrees F.

As for which one to choose, I personally experienced fitment and quality issues with Forge, so just because something cost more doesn't necessarily mean it's better. From talking to other forum members, other brands have the same issues. Sure they advertise plug and play, but when you go to install it, it's a PITA.

So which one to choose? I recommend that you do your own research. Brands that have been tested by race teams should be in your top tier. As for plugs by forum members, take it with a grain of salt unless they are avid racers or track junkies.
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      02-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
There is no need to upgrade your intercooler if:
1. You're not going to run a tune
2. You're not going to track your car
3. You live in a climate where summer daytime outside temperatures average below 85 degrees F.

As for which one to choose, I personally experienced fitment and quality issues with Forge, so just because something cost more doesn't necessarily mean it's better. From talking to other forum members, other brands have the same issues. Sure they advertise plug and play, but when you go to install it, it's a PITA.

So which one to choose? I recommend that you do your own research. Brands that have been tested by race teams should be in your top tier. As for plugs by forum members, take it with a grain of salt unless they are avid racers or track junkies.
Very wisely said. I can only add that a car without a tune but with an aftermarket IC will also suffer from the unpleasant fact of adding more weight at the front end of the car since all aftermarket units are considerably heavier than stock. Plus, you will likely have more turbo lag too since stock has the smallest core compared to aftermarket options. It is a complimentary mod that you should only consider if you are subject to one of the conditions posted above.
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      02-05-2013, 12:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
the most gains will be seen from a tune where the tuner will be able to push the car a little harder and hold more boost to redline because of the more efficient cooling capabilities.
+1. On a stock core at high rpm the turbos essentially become hot air blowers. The larger core allows the tuner to push the operating efficiency range of the turbos a little bit further. We're talking in the last 1 to 2k RPM range.

So as others have said, unless you've done supporting mods, (downpipes, software, and possibly intake) to make that extra top level horse power possible just adding FMIC won't do much for you and may even make you a bit slower.
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      02-05-2013, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
+1. On a stock core at high rpm the turbos essentially become hot air blowers. The larger core allows the tuner to push the operating efficiency range of the turbos a little bit further. We're talking in the last 1 to 2k RPM range.

So as others have said, unless you've done supporting mods, (downpipes, software, and possibly intake) to make that extra top level horse power possible just adding FMIC won't do much for you and may even make you a bit slower.
This. A FMIC doesn't "add power" per se, rather it allows the car to hit timing targets under high load conditions for extended periods of time. I'm not sure if the 1M has a different intercooler, but the stock N54 unit is a piece of crap. If you plan to tune, a FMIC is a necessity, imo. Even running relatively tame mapping, the car will pull timing very quickly if the intercooler can't stay efficient. An upgraded intercooler allows tuned vehicles to hit significantly more aggressive timing targets, and if you plan on tracking the car even w/o a tune it's a no brainer. A very worthy upgrade for an engine that runs HOT. I would also add that at least in my experience, the power "gains" are apparent in the mid range, not just up top.
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      02-05-2013, 01:57 PM   #11
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what do you think of Forge quality as an intercooler compared to others on the market?
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      02-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zayzay View Post
what do you think of Forge quality as an intercooler compared to others on the market?
Forge has a well-deserved reputation I wouldn't be concerned from that standpoint. With a FMIC you want to look at the end tank design, weld quality, fin and core design, etc. Any real-life testing is obviously useful to gauge pressure drop and charge temp management. But I've never heard of anyone being dissapointed with the Forge FMIC.
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      02-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #13
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bdaddylo, could you please elaborate on the fitment issues you experienced? My impression was that it was one of the better fitting options available. Did you use the 1M-specific version?
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      02-06-2013, 08:57 AM   #14
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Some of the members who participated in the group buy had damaged cooling fins. It was nothing major, but not something you would expect when you're paying a premium over the other brands. My fitment issue was the misalignment of the radiator clips. They were off to one side which is causing unnecessary stress on the ends where you screw the FMIC in place. Any type of quality control check should have caught both of these issues. As for the overall performance, it seems to remove heat faster than the stock unit, but normal operating IAT is the same which I'm assuming is the case no matter which air cooled intercooler you go with.
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      02-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #15
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Einser M has the Wagner drop-in intercooler. It may be best to contact him regarding his thoughts; I believe his 1M is tuned.

In regard to performance, I cannot disgree with the other's in here, they are spot on. To gain the most, in performance terms, from your engine with a better IC fitted it is best to have a map tailored for it so that the turbocharger can be pushed a little further. That said I wouldn't say though that it wasn't ever worth while fitting a more efficient/large IC to a stock car, intake temps and creep even in mild Summer's and during consistent hard runs in any climate. Sure you may not get the power bump that an IC tailored tune will utilise but you'll retain your power for longer. It's never a bad idea to fit a 'better' IC and you'll find that most of the IC's made for the N54 engine aren't really large enough to provide any major lag.
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      02-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #16
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I just got around to installing the Forge unit a few weeks ago.

For me the fitment was great. The FMIC overall was a quality piece.

I opted to trim the shroud instead of removing it since I felt that removal would give the air space to route around the FMIC instead of through it. By leaving the top and sides of the shroud in place it forces the air to go through the core, plus it leaves a more finished look.

My issues were with the vendor not the manufacturer. Im happy with the quality of the FMIC and if I had to do it again I would go with a Forge (I just would buy it through a different source). That being said if I had received one that I felt was substandard in quality of craftsmanship I would send it back for a replacement.
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      02-06-2013, 11:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozy View Post
Einser M has the Wagner drop-in intercooler. It may be best to contact him regarding his thoughts; I believe his 1M is tuned.

In regard to performance, I cannot disgree with the other's in here, they are spot on. To gain the most, in performance terms, from your engine with a better IC fitted it is best to have a map tailored for it so that the turbocharger can be pushed a little further. That said I wouldn't say though that it wasn't ever worth while fitting a more efficient/large IC to a stock car, intake temps and creep even in mild Summer's and during consistent hard runs in any climate. Sure you may not get the power bump that an IC tailored tune will utilise but you'll retain your power for longer. It's never a bad idea to fit a 'better' IC and you'll find that most of the IC's made for the N54 engine aren't really large enough to provide any major lag.
i also have a wagner and the fitment was a B- at best

-tabs didnt line up (same as bdaddylo i guess)
-no groove for factory c clip
-trimming involved

if i could do it again id go ETS, because i installed one on a previous N54 and the fitment was excellent
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      02-06-2013, 11:40 AM   #18
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That's a shame, they seem to fit the 135i bumpers better. I suppose most important though, how's it doing?
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      02-06-2013, 11:53 AM   #19
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seems fine

i am disgusted with the fitment though, and i am tempted to just buy an ETS so its done right.

may do it this summer, not sure.

i dont like how those two bolts are the only thing holding it in.

the fact that the tabs are so wide, clearly not even close to fitting the factory tabs from the radiator is ridiculous and evidence of very poor attention to detail IMO
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      02-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
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Has anyone actually found the 5" ETS IC to be inadequate? Logs showing timing pulls, etc?
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