PMu HC+ - Local

[_Ryan_]

Found them locally, just ordered!

Spec:
http://www.project-mu.com.au/en/products/pad_hcplus.php

Vendor (135i):
https://brakesdirect.com.au/aus/z328...rake-pads.html
https://brakesdirect.com.au/aus/z425...rake-pads.html

Great pads, should be better than DS2500 that most seem to run for dual duty. I ran some on JDM cars and loved them!

-R.

[_Ryan_]

PSA:
- They ship without shims
- The front fitment is slightly wider than the OEM pad with its wrap around shim
- The front pad won't fit with the OEM shim
- A 0.5mm Hardbrakes Ti. shim does fit as it doesn't wrap around the backing plate

[froop]

Good find, but they're quite exxy compared to DS2500's. Maybe about $200 more. I can't say that I've had any issue with the DS2500s on the track. Never had them fade on me before running 0.5mm Hardbrakes Ti shims, SS brake lines and Castrol SRF fluid. The only issue I've had is loss of brakes due to air bubbles in the lines. The DS2500s do seem to wear down quite quickly though. I've probably had them for about a year and done not many street kms at all and maybe 4-5 track days and they're down to probably about 5mm.

In your experience, in what way are Project Mu's better than DS2500s?

[John_01]

I have been recommended HC800 as an alternative to Ferodo DS2500 for dual duty use. The claim is that HC800 can be used to 800 degrees which might be a bit hotter than the optimum range for the DS2500. I feel that DS2500 seems to loose some bite in intense track use, but it is quite gradual and nothing serious in my experience. I think the DS2500 pads worked slightly better with stainless brake shims before I changed to 1.0mm titanium shims. However the superior thermal insulation of the Ti shims is a major benefit overall. The DS2500 still works well enough for me so I'm not ready to change to HC800 just to find out if there is a difference. Please let us know how you go.

[vtl]

They look quite pricey, I'd want them to be extremely good for that price.

Hows DS2500 on the street? Noise/dust/cold performance? Thinking of getting them on my car but need more opinions.

[John_01]

Originally Posted by vtl

Hows DS2500 on the street? Noise/dust/cold performance? Thinking of getting them on my car but need more opinions.

The DS2500 are very usable on the street. You won't mistake them for OE pads, but there is no problem to use them on the street.

NOISE: They squeal, but its not uncomfortably loud.
DUST: is similar to OE pads, or maybe a bit less dust.
COLD PERFORMANCE: You need about 50% more pedal effort when they are really cold. Its noticeable, but not a serious issue.
OTHER: They make a clunk every time you reverse, because they are designed with more clearance than OE pads. The Wear sensors cannot be fitted, so they need to be cable tied to the suspension arms or located somewhere else.

[_Ryan_]

I haven't run DS2500 on this car (nor recently) so wouldn't be the best one to provide advice. Cold bite is pretty good on these, higher friction coefficient, generally good feel, good match to AD08R.

DS2500 http://www.ferodoracing.com/products...e-pads/ds2500/
HC+http://www.project-mu.co.jp/en/products/pad_hcplus.html

[froop]

I'm actually in need for a pad replacement soon so maybe I'll look at getting a set and compare performance.

I last paid Front DS2500 $260, Rear DS2500 $193 from race brakes Sydney. I'll get a new quote and see what the price difference is.

[froop]

Seems like the prices have gone up a bit for DS2500s. $297 for the fronts and $220 for the rears now. Still an extra $140 but closes the gap a bit.

[froop]

Visually inspected my DS2500 brake pads and my left front is about 2mm away from the backing plates... Right front has maybe 4-5mm and the rears are about 6-7mm. I'm not sure if you other guys running DS2500s have the same thing but it almost looks as though the edges of the pads are crumbling.

So I'm about to take the plunge on a set of the NS400s as well as HC800s from Race Brakes Sydney. Anyone else interested? He's giving me a discount since I'm about to buy 2 full sets. I'm sure I can get you a discount too.

His quoted prices are below without the discount.

NS400 STREET
Front Z328 $269
Rear Z425 $229

HC800 STREET/TRACK

Front Z328 $349
Rear Z425 $299

Club Racer
Front Z328 $399
Rear Z425 $399

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by froop

So I'm about to take the plunge on a set of the NS400s as well as HC800s from Race Brakes Sydney. Anyone else interested? He's giving me a discount since I'm about to buy 2 full sets. I'm sure I can get you a discount too.

Wouldn't it be:

HC800

or

NS + CR pads?

[froop]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Wouldn't it be:

HC800

or

NS + CR pads?

I got two cars lol. One is a daily.

Though I'm reading a few reviews on the 86 forums about the HC800 and not entirely sure if I should go through with it. They're talking about poor wear and also brake fade and that's on a car that's quite a bit lighter than our cars.

Have you installed yours and gave them a run in yet?

The guy recommended Club Racers for me but I'm a bit iffy as the car is still sometimes street driven. Not often at all, but sometimes.

[John_01]

Endless ME20 pads? Would they be suitable as a high temperature dual duty pad?
I believe they are available for the 135i, but they need to be custom ordered and wait.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by froop

I got two cars lol. One is a daily.

Though I'm reading a few reviews on the 86 forums about the HC800 and not entirely sure if I should go through with it. They're talking about poor wear and also brake fade and that's on a car that's quite a bit lighter than our cars.

Have you installed yours and gave them a run in yet?

The guy recommended Club Racers for me but I'm a bit iffy as the car is still sometimes street driven. Not often at all, but sometimes.

There are the only pads I haven't had fade except under stupid circumstance and at that point it was a combination of factors. CR09 don't like crappy rubber, I was advised against them for AD08R and 90% street use (albeit somewhat spirited).

Interested in who had them fade.

[froop]

Just purchased a set of both the PMu HC+ as well as the NC400s. I installed the HC+ last night, with 0.5mm Ti shims only, no OEM shims, but I didn't get a chance to bed it in as I snapped a wheel stud trying to undo a nut. No idea how as I do virtually all removal and installation of my wheels and always torque to spec. Maybe it's the axle tramp or maybe it's just bad luck.

Anyways, only driven on them gently to and from work so far but I've noticed that they immediately have better cold bite than the Ferodo's. They also seem to squeal less. I did apply a generous amount of ceramic brake lubricant when installing. Also the dust is not as obvious as Ferodo's.

Of course all the above, are not exactly qualities of a good track pad so the real test of their performance will have to be at my next track day. Probably next year.

On a related note, my dust boots are shot. About 4-5/6 on the front left were completely ruined and maybe 2/6 on the right front were ruined. The rears appeared fine. Also my ceramic piston heads were fine. The front left pad was worn near to the backing plate with some areas near the edge having crumbled off completely. Luckily the backing plate was not actually in contact with the rotor so there was no marring. There was still at least a few mm left on the right front. Rears were maybe 5mm.

[vtl]

I ended up ordering a set of Ferodo DS2500s. If I don't end up liking them I will probably just swap the stock pads in and run the DS2500s just on track. Hopefully they arrive before the track day.

Was just under $550 shipped from vsport australia.

The Project Mu just seemed a bit too expensive for me.

froop you should be able to rebuild the dust boots pretty cheaply:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Centric-P...EAAOxy63FS9Mmd
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Disc-Brak...QAAOSw9N1Vt8P7

Stoptech ones if you want something better:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/28mm-32mm...0AAOSwVFlT-76J

[froop]

Originally Posted by vtl

I ended up ordering a set of Ferodo DS2500s. If I don't end up liking them I will probably just swap the stock pads in and run the DS2500s just on track. Hopefully they arrive before the track day.

Was just under $550 shipped from vsport australia.

The Project Mu just seemed a bit too expensive for me.

froop you should be able to rebuild the dust boots pretty cheaply:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Centric-P...EAAOxy63FS9Mmd
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Disc-Brak...QAAOSw9N1Vt8P7

Stoptech ones if you want something better:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/28mm-32mm...0AAOSwVFlT-76J

Hmmm I might have to look at getting some of those Stoptech ones. For sure it would be useless to replace them with the stock ones. Didn't realise they had those out. Are they easy to replace? Like do you need to pull apart the caliper or can it be done with everything still attached and just the pads out?

I picked up the PMu HC+ for $340 for the fronts and $290 for the rears. Definitely more expensive but not a huge amount more. Interested to see how they hold up to track abuse compared to the Ferodos.

The Ferodo's were a good pad but they also wore out quite quickly. I installed them at 53,000kms in April 2014 and changed them out at 66,000kms in November 2015. I did 6 track days (maybe 150 laps) on them. Curious as to how long they've lasted for others.

[vtl]

Originally Posted by froop

Hmmm I might have to look at getting some of those Stoptech ones. For sure it would be useless to replace them with the stock ones. Didn't realise they had those out. Are they easy to replace? Like do you need to pull apart the caliper or can it be done with everything still attached and just the pads out?

I picked up the PMu HC+ for $340 for the fronts and $290 for the rears. Definitely more expensive but not a huge amount more. Interested to see how they hold up to track abuse compared to the Ferodos.

The Ferodo's were a good pad but they also wore out quite quickly. I installed them at 53,000kms in April 2014 and changed them out at 66,000kms in November 2015. I did 6 track days (maybe 150 laps) on them. Curious as to how long they've lasted for others.

You can also upgraded get steel pistons from racingbrake (no phenolic caps) if you end up cracking your stock ones.

The stoptech boots say theyre silicone but I thought silicone was actually chemically incompatible with brake fluid? Is that why they say don't put the grease on it? I know I saw there was a few different sets on the market and some were high temp rated but you couldn't get brake fluid on the dust boot. Might be worth buying the rubber ones if you don't mind rebuilding more often

I haven't rebuilt the calipers on my 135i but I've done it on my previous B5 A4, it was actually pretty easy and I did it years ago when I was still a novice at car DIY. I only had to do the rears. It was a single piston floating caliper with integrated handbrake mechanism actuating the piston. You will need to clamp the brake hose and totally remove the caliper from the car. Doing it on the car would just make a huge mess as you will have brake fluid leaking from where you remove the pistons. Its quite tricky to get the new dust boots to 'click' into place unless you have piston all the way out.

If you have compressed air, leave some old brake pads in the caliper and use the compressed air on the brake hose inlet to move the pistons out a bit. If you don't use something to block the pistons then they may shoot out of the caliper. If you don't have compressed air you can try and use a large 20cc syringe (search for hydroponics syringe on ebay) to push the pistons out, might be difficult. After that complete remove the pistons by hand and remove the old inner seals and put the new seals in. The dust boot is a bit more tricky to put on, but easy enough if you put the boot halfway on the piston first, get it sealed on the caliper and then lock the seal on the piston. You'll know what I mean when you do it.

Use a pressure bleeder to rebleed your fluid and you are good to go