BMW Car Magazine article - M Grudge Match: 1M vs Tuned 135i

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

I'd be angry too if I bought KW V2's....a huge waste of money. No wonder you are so adamant that the 1M is better. Try a proper set of coilovers with linear springs and report back.

Never angry, it definitely made an improvement. But, I don't really need anything right now, the 1M suspension is fine for me at this point. Once I get it to some track days in the spring, I may want to upgrade then. Either way, I am happy to have so many more options for tires than I did before.

[hybris4u]

When the M2 do come out we buy it and sell our used M1s to the people with tuned 135s! ;-)

[robertm]

Originally Posted by cooler2442

HPA could have fit 275's in the rear easily if Apex rims were used which HPA does stock but they look crappy.

True?

Why did the article make it sound like 245s were the widest tires possible to fit under a 135? I have been thinking that's really sux for the 135 crowd ever since reading the article. If you can jam 275 tires in the back then by all means the modded 135 will be an animal with the quaife diff and trick suspension. That's a car I could get much more excited about!

[hybris4u]

When we have the M2 Im sure the tuned 1Ms are much better...

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

You said it yourself, the 1M was used for a test market. Obviously it was successful so what happens when the new 1M (M2) comes out and kicks the E82 1M's teeth in?

I guess you are responding to what I wrote earlier. Well, what we have around is 1M now; when a new 1M or M2 comes out and if it comes out we will see what it is going to be. Hopefully, it will come out and it will also do good AND it will be compared with its peers. If it comes but can not match the performance or "feel" of 1M (I mean the one that we have now, the one for real) this would be a pity and shame cause it better be better.

The one point you might be missing is 1M already earned a status in the line-up of great BMWs and a newer model will not destroy it or take it back. It just happened. Did we loose respect for E30 M3 or Z3 M Coupe or E46 M3 CSL?

[pixelblue]

I'm pretty sure they meant 245's up front. You can fit 285's in the back with proper offset and some fender rolling

[bimmer ///man]

If 255F and 275R is possible then that definitely changes things. Perhaps they meant 245's were a squeeze on the Breytons.

Also, the 135 has a Coefficient of Drag of .34 compared to .37 for the 1M and has less frontal area.

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

If 255F and 275R is possible then that definitely changes things. Perhaps they meant 245's were a squeeze on the Breytons.

Also, the 135 has a Coefficient of Drag of .34 compared to .37 for the 1M and has less frontal area.

there are plenty people running that already.

[hybris4u]

If I had missed the 1M I would not tune a 135 as a plan B that is for sure. I would go for a Cayman R or wait for a M2. Or just go and buy a M3 or M5.

I think this discussion is way to funny! Sorry for being annoying but I actually laugh inside to see the comments from the 135 people... Go tune a Golf GTI! You can probably get 800 bhp in it if you want...

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by hybris4u

Sorry for being annoying

you are too modest...

[ptack]

No one can put 275s on a 135i without doing quite a bit of work. Even 265s will rub unless you do some tweaks, but why on earth would anyone up the HP to 400 and stick with the stock 245s???? Did they also leave the 215s up front? Why on earth spend money on new wheels and tires and not go with more rubber when you investing so much money?

[duvinclunk]

Originally Posted by hybris4u

Go tune a Golf GTI!

It is amazing the pedistal some 1M owners have climbed up on. You get ahold of one of a limited quantity vehicle and all of the sudden you're king shit and your car is the best thing ever created. It's crazy how many 1M owners are butt hurt over the article. Get over it, you know your car is better. Most 135i owners would probably agree it's a better car too. Again, you're very much missing the point of the article.

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by duvinclunk

It is amazing the pedistal some 1M owners have climbed up on. You get ahold of one of a limited quantity vehicle and all of the sudden you're king shit and your car is the best thing ever created. It's crazy how many 1M owners are butt hurt over the article. Get over it, you know your car is better. Most 135i owners would probably agree it's a better car too. Again, you're very much missing the point of the article.

Unfortunately these are the same people responsible for the negative stigma associated with the M badge. There are always a few bad apples in a bunch

[bimmer ///man]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

I think that an ///M car is more than just power, it is about handling and a pure driving experience which is achieved by a combination of tweaked superior engineering. A modded 135 will never achieve this, nor should be expected too, as it is a great car in its own right.

The 1M looks the 'deal' too... A wolf in wolf's clothing, while the 135 is still dressed a bit like a lamb.

This argument is pointless and ridiculous. The M Division hardly did anything to the 1M, not to take anything away. The ONLY things that had be be designed specifically for this car were the body work, axle back muffler, M gauges, M button and alcantara interior pieces. That's it! Everything else was either pulled from the 135 or M3. Nothing was "tweaked" by superior engineering aside from what I listed. A 135i can EASILY achieve and surpass the 1M.

Pull a steering rack off a wrecked m3 and HP would have had the same steering feedback. The quaife does behave a little differently than a clutch pack diff but aside from that they are identical and then the 135 surpasses with the TCK's.

BTW, I am no longer arguing MSRP, let's get real. Most people will be doing this to a used car. No one is arguing that if offered both HP's modded 135 and a brand new 1M that someone would opt for the 135 at the same price.

The 1M is a great car, it symbolizes M finally making a step in the right direction towards a lighter and smaller chassis after the M3s have been getting heavier each generation. Hopefully this car will show them that there is the demand and they will devote more resources to the next 1M/M2.

To make it easier for everybody to understand, let me put it this way. 135i is equal to the e36 328is. The 1M is equal to the E36 M3. The M3 is a tweaked version of the 328. The engine is just a bored and stroked 2.8L. The brakes, dampers, control arms, LSD, axle back exhaust, gauges, steering wheel, bumpers and seats were the only things that were changed. They shared the same transmission, intake manifold, headers, midpipe, steering rack, and majority of body work. At least the e36 m3 got upgraded leather and m3 specific seats unlike the 1M.

My point being that yes the e36 m3 is a better car but with a few changes to the 328, it is easily an m3 competitor because they share SO many parts. The gap is even easier to close between the 135 and 1M.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Unfortunately these are the same people responsible for the negative stigma associated with the M badge. There are always a few bad apples in a bunch

Funny that, when real world performance figures were released for the 1M (that matched or exceeded M3 numbers), a handful of people went apeshit in the M3 forum

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by hybris4u

If I had missed the 1M I would not tune a 135 as a plan B that is for sure. I would go for a Cayman R or wait for a M2. Or just go and buy a M3 or M5.

Maybe you wouldn't, but other people in the US may consider it since you can no longer get a new 1M at MSRP here. A Cayman R, M3, and M5 are also way above the price range of the 1M, so that may not be an option for most people. I don't see what's so laughable at tuning a 135 or any car for that matter.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Moo

Funny that, when real world performance figures were released for the 1M (that matched or exceeded M3 numbers), a handful of people went apeshit in the M3 forum

i wanna see..link!

[Moo]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

This argument is pointless and ridiculous. The M Division hardly did anything to the 1M, not to take anything away. The ONLY things that had be be designed specifically for this car were the body work, axle back muffler, M gauges, M button and alcantara interior pieces. That's it! Everything else was either pulled from the 135 or M3.

Isn't the 1M flywheel a lot lighter also?

[robertm]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

The M Division hardly did anything to the 1M, not to take anything away. The ONLY things that had be be designed specifically for this car were the body work, axle back muffler, M gauges, M button and alcantara interior pieces.

I am not one of the people that thinks tweaking a 135 is dumb. I think they are great cars and wholeheartedly agree whoever spends the most money on their car will usually win whatever the challenge is supposed to be.

I have to disagree with your dumbing down of what BMW had to do to create the 1M though. First they changed the front left and right fenders. Then the inner shrouds. Then the rear fenders and inner shrouds. Then the valance below the rear bumper. Then the front bumper. That is no small amount of work. Then they redid the interior to what you see now. That includes stitching on all seats, door cards, door handles, shift boot, dash inlay and probably a few things I'm not counting. Then they redid the axleback exhaust. Then they replaced all suspension with M3 pieces. Spring rates are different, not sure about dampening. I believe the front subrfame is a hybid design, don’t know about rear. Then the engine was fitted with a different transmission. Then they added M3 brakes. Then they added new brake ecu. Then they changed the valve cover. Then they changed some cooling bits (fan speed or something like that, minor stuff I believe). Then they redid the ECU to work with new diff, new tranny, new brakes, new power package (same as 135is power), new M button, new brakes and possibly new traction control parameters. I’m sure there are a few dozen smaller things that I am overlooking or don’t even realize.

Added up that is a tremendous amount of work. Please don't fool yourself into thinking it’s not. I hate to make assumptions but I'm going to assume you do not work in the engineering or design fields. If you did you would appreciate just how much effort and testing went into putting all that together and realize how benighted thinking otherwise truly is.

[BMW86]

The reality is stock for stock, the 1M is a much better car than a 135i. However, performance wise, it seems a modded 135i edges out a 1M. The reality is some of us have been driving these 'modded 1M's' for years now, the 1M is a bit late to the party although it's attracted plenty of new buyers. The 1M is a good opportunity for those that left their 135i stock and want to upgrade, but for the rest of us, there's less motivation to do so. If we were buying today, the clear choice is the 1M

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

here...

thanks i meant the bitching thread though

[pixelblue]

I hate to bring this up but on my last track outing I let a pro driver take my car out for a few laps. That same day he drove a 1M. He was 1.3 sec faster with my car. I don't have a tune but my suspension is upgraded and I was wearing R comps. here is his fast lap