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      12-13-2017, 02:00 AM   #1
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So there are two people in the world who don't like the 1M and should know better....

Of course I jest, because as we all know, driving pleasure and a vehicle's ability to tug at our heart strings and make us cry, are very subjective things.

We all know of the now famous (infamous) Randy the P Body Pobst's thoughts of the 1M, but back when I was looking, I recalled also reading an Australian reviewer having similar feelings to Mr Probiotics'

At the time I thought, yeah, Aussies don't know good cars when they drive them, I was a bit hurt maybe, don't know why, I didn't design nor build the thing. But recently, my Bro in law started looking at 2011 135i's for a new second hand buy, and I was interested in what prices were being placed on them.

And during my searching, I came across this, a little second hand buyers guide for the 135i by the exact journalist who knocked the 1M back when it arrived on our shores.

And what do you know, he still holds decidedly low views on a car which has otherwise been globally praised for it's character and performance per dollar value.

So in case you're interested, sit down first and maybe light up a ciggie so you stay calm, but here's a little review on the 135i with some key notes on its relevance next to the 1M being sold at the same time.

Enjoy....... or not.....

https://www.drive.com.au/used-car-re...0160914-grfvda
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      12-13-2017, 04:20 AM   #2
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Don't knock the Aussies, oi, oi, oi
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      12-13-2017, 11:32 PM   #3
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I read the first paragraph and it was enough to make me realize that the "reviewer" is either a troll or needs an adjustment in their psych meds.
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      12-15-2017, 11:19 PM   #4
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Morley is a good motoring writer but never liked the 1M and was quite vocal about it. Strangely, he didn't like my car previous to that, the Honda S2000 either.

Don't let it bother you - Morley found it twitchy at the limit but I never had a problem with it on or off the track, including turn one at Phillip Island which is ~190kph.

By the way, the Aussie comment is unnecessary. We have a strong car culture here with one of the highest percent take-up rates of M/AMG/Renaulsport/STI in the world, and many fine automotive engineers in particular those with chassis development experience.
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      12-16-2017, 12:43 AM   #5
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that's not a 1m in the picture
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      12-16-2017, 02:39 AM   #6
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Haha.... Post was tongue in cheek people, just thought it might be interesting. Clearly there are exactly three people who don’t like them on this planet. Just have fun with it and take the message that tastes will always be very personal which means there is no ultimate right or wrong, just right or wrong for each individual.:thumbs-up
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      12-16-2017, 09:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro1M View Post
Morley is a good motoring writer but never liked the 1M and was quite vocal about it. Strangely, he didn't like my car previous to that, the Honda S2000 either.

Don't let it bother you - Morley found it twitchy at the limit but I never had a problem with it on or off the track, including turn one at Phillip Island which is ~190kph.

By the way, the Aussie comment is unnecessary. We have a strong car culture here with one of the highest percent take-up rates of M/AMG/Renaulsport/STI in the world, and many fine automotive engineers in particular those with chassis development experience.
Sounds like Morley is a wuss or is extremely fussy about a car that actually has some character and isn't completely neutral.

The S2000 can be twitchy in a similar way to the M2. I've driven an S2000 at an Autocross and in the slaloms I definitely noticed that the rear can come around a bit.

Some of our top times at events are from drivers in an S2000, they are very competitive due to the high rev limiter and gearing.


I've always said that the 1M is a car that needs a GOOD driver when on track. Novices should NOT apply. The same is true for the S2k.
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      12-16-2017, 10:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
that's not a 1m in the picture
Did you even read OPs first post? It's not supposed to be a 1M...
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      12-16-2017, 10:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goombeh View Post
Of course I jest, because as we all know, driving pleasure and a vehicle's ability to tug at our heart strings and make us cry, are very subjective things.

We all know of the now famous (infamous) Randy the P Body Pobst's thoughts of the 1M, but back when I was looking, I recalled also reading an Australian reviewer having similar feelings to Mr Probiotics'

At the time I thought, yeah, Aussies don't know good cars when they drive them, I was a bit hurt maybe, don't know why, I didn't design nor build the thing. But recently, my Bro in law started looking at 2011 135i's for a new second hand buy, and I was interested in what prices were being placed on them.

And during my searching, I came across this, a little second hand buyers guide for the 135i by the exact journalist who knocked the 1M back when it arrived on our shores.

And what do you know, he still holds decidedly low views on a car which has otherwise been globally praised for it's character and performance per dollar value.

So in case you're interested, sit down first and maybe light up a ciggie so you stay calm, but here's a little review on the 135i with some key notes on its relevance next to the 1M being sold at the same time.

Enjoy....... or not.....

https://www.drive.com.au/used-car-re...0160914-grfvda
I never get hung up on car reviews..

The M2 has had the same love hate argument from many. And they continuously compare the car to the 1M..

I take the fact that each time I drive the damm thing I can't stop smiling! That's the best review.

On the 135i, I simply love it. The size, the power the looks. The 1M I imagine is the same thing but on steroids so who wouldn't love it?
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      12-29-2017, 01:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN_M2 View Post
I never get hung up on car reviews..

The M2 has had the same love hate argument from many. And they continuously compare the car to the 1M..

I take the fact that each time I drive the damm thing I can't stop smiling! That's the best review.

On the 135i, I simply love it. The size, the power the looks. The 1M I imagine is the same thing but on steroids so who wouldn't love it?
Yes, nicely said. The car reviews are useful after you find a reviewer that shares your philosophy. Most of us bought M cars without test driving them and that is where the reviewers matter. It is a huge expense and you have to do it without the benefit of a test drive. I don't blame Randy Pobst. He was judging the 1M for its track handling and that is like putting a rottweiler on the track and using a greyhound grading card. The fact is, the 1M is not a great track car out of the box. It wants to go sideways in a straight line. The motor has lag then a huge surge. It has the aerodynamic coefficient of drag of modern Volvo semi truck. It needed a little more development and tuning which some on here like Dan Parker and others have done to make it a great track car. Ironically, it was the fact that the 1M was so much fun on the street and back roads that made it special. Most of us spend 99% of the time on the road and the 1M is a blast. It feels naughty and a little dangerous at lower speeds which makes it thrilling. Many track designed M cars were so good that they felt boring on the autobahn at 150 mph. It felt like going 100mph. 150 mph in the 1M feels like 150 mph!

Guys like Chris Harris, Daniel Pund, Jeremy Clarkson all got that. These guys drove Ferraris and M5s all the time, yet they loved the 1M. Randy saw a killer whale and judged it solely for it's ability to jump out of the water and do a triple axel summersault and declared it a failure in the ocean kingdom when its smaller dolphin brethren can do it better.
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      12-29-2017, 08:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Guys like Chris Harris, Daniel Pund, Jeremy Clarkson all got that.
Deon Joubert got it, too. I particularly enjoyed his feedback, as he used to race Group N 325is's in period.
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      01-13-2018, 12:41 AM   #12
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I've never understood why the 1M has a reputation of being twitchy and hard to handle but the 135i doesn't. The 135i's stock suspension is terrible and all of the short comings seem to be remedied in the 1M. Wider track, much better suspension, LSD, etc yet it's the 1M that has the reputation of being a handful to drive
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      01-13-2018, 02:56 AM   #13
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I think part of it must be throttle linearity (or non-linearity) with overboost and near-instantaneous torque. Combined with the short wheelbase you have a combination that can be a handful.
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      01-13-2018, 03:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
I've never understood why the 1M has a reputation of being twitchy and hard to handle but the 135i doesn't. The 135i's stock suspension is terrible and all of the short comings seem to be remedied in the 1M. Wider track, much better suspension, LSD, etc yet it's the 1M that has the reputation of being a handful to drive
You make good points that I had never put together myself. The 1M's linkages and suspension and steering are far superior to the 135i, but both the horsepower and torque are only marginally different. While I've never driven a 135i I would expect the factors mentioned should mean it is even more twitchy. The wildcard could be the overboost feature as mentioned by ayao , but are all reviewers actually (stupidly) giving the car full throttle mid-turn? I have zero problem modulating the throttle and I'm no expert race car driver.
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      01-13-2018, 03:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP-1M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
I've never understood why the 1M has a reputation of being twitchy and hard to handle but the 135i doesn't. The 135i's stock suspension is terrible and all of the short comings seem to be remedied in the 1M. Wider track, much better suspension, LSD, etc yet it's the 1M that has the reputation of being a handful to drive
You make good points that I had never put together myself. The 1M's linkages and suspension and steering are far superior to the 135i, but both the horsepower and torque are only marginally different. While I've never driven a 135i I would expect the factors mentioned should mean it is even more twitchy. The wildcard could be the overboost feature as mentioned by ayao , but are all reviewers actually (stupidly) giving the car full throttle mid-turn? I have zero problem modulating the throttle and I'm no expert race car driver.
My 135i on stock suspension is full bolt on making far more power than a stock 1M and I have no problem modulating the throttle and controlling the car. I'm surprised those reviewers had so much trouble with a stock 1M
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      01-13-2018, 06:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
I've never understood why the 1M has a reputation of being twitchy and hard to handle but the 135i doesn't. The 135i's stock suspension is terrible and all of the short comings seem to be remedied in the 1M. Wider track, much better suspension, LSD, etc yet it's the 1M that has the reputation of being a handful to drive
Because the M Variable locking diff isn't actually all that great and tends to be on/off (imo) which makes it a handful and snappy.
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      01-13-2018, 10:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
I've never understood why the 1M has a reputation of being twitchy and hard to handle but the 135i doesn't. The 135i's stock suspension is terrible and all of the short comings seem to be remedied in the 1M. Wider track, much better suspension, LSD, etc yet it's the 1M that has the reputation of being a handful to drive
Because the M Variable locking diff isn't actually all that great and tends to be on/off (imo) which makes it a handful and snappy.
I'm now taking us way off topic, but do you know of a better diff out there that is a drop in replacement?
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      01-13-2018, 06:21 PM   #18
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I think a guy named hot-j replaced his with one from diffsonline - might reach out to him.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1350738

Last edited by ayao; 01-13-2018 at 08:38 PM.
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      01-13-2018, 08:46 PM   #19
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Yup he went to a clutch type and shorter R&P :thumsup
Drexler, M-Factory are good choices.

For comparison sake a JZA80 Supra and 6spd R34 Skylines top out at 141-147 km/h and 182-188km/h in 3rd and 4th gears. They have more usable power up to redline though.

1M with OEM 19s would be around 160km/h and 210km/h if shifting at 6100rpm. It really depends how the car is used though, I doubt you'd want to go shorter for drag racing on the OEM turbos for example.

FWIW, the M2 has a 3.46 gearset.

Despite the urge to go shorter, I want to get some baseline performance data and benchmarks plus I believe it's important and way more effective to at least do struts prior to LSD.
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      01-14-2018, 05:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Yes, nicely said. The car reviews are useful after you find a reviewer that shares your philosophy. Most of us bought M cars without test driving them and that is where the reviewers matter. It is a huge expense and you have to do it without the benefit of a test drive. I don't blame Randy Pobst. He was judging the 1M for its track handling and that is like putting a rottweiler on the track and using a greyhound grading card. The fact is, the 1M is not a great track car out of the box. It wants to go sideways in a straight line. The motor has lag then a huge surge. It has the aerodynamic coefficient of drag of modern Volvo semi truck. It needed a little more development and tuning which some on here like Dan Parker and others have done to make it a great track car. Ironically, it was the fact that the 1M was so much fun on the street and back roads that made it special. Most of us spend 99% of the time on the road and the 1M is a blast. It feels naughty and a little dangerous at lower speeds which makes it thrilling. Many track designed M cars were so good that they felt boring on the autobahn at 150 mph. It felt like going 100mph. 150 mph in the 1M feels like 150 mph!

Guys like Chris Harris, Daniel Pund, Jeremy Clarkson all got that. These guys drove Ferraris and M5s all the time, yet they loved the 1M. Randy saw a killer whale and judged it solely for it's ability to jump out of the water and do a triple axel summersault and declared it a failure in the ocean kingdom when its smaller dolphin brethren can do it better.
Wonderful post. This guy gets it. Different people have different wants from their cars.
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      01-14-2018, 09:16 PM   #21
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In Canada I remember Jacques Duval named the 1M the worst car he reviewed in 2011. It was to uncomfortable and noisy for his taste.
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      01-17-2018, 01:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
In Canada I remember Jacques Duval named the 1M the worst car he reviewed in 2011. It was to uncomfortable and noisy for his taste.
Thank you, I'll remember that name and make sure to NEVER buy anything he likes!
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