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      04-26-2007, 05:48 PM   #45
SCOTT26
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Well of course the term "Sex sells" is still very much in fashion..

This is an interesting discussion and I would like to comment further when I am less busy (I am in Japan as MINI Clubman shoot has begun in Tokyo) - But in my approach when you see both driver and passenger smiling as they cruise in their new BMW I put it down to the fact that they love the handling and dynamic comfort and luxury of the BMW . Not because the driver thinks he is getting lucky after they reach their destination.
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      04-27-2007, 12:28 AM   #46
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I know I have complained a lot about this car taking a long time to reach our shores, but now I am kind of happy that they took their time. It looks like they have something really special put together, and I cannot wait to own one :roundel: .
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      04-27-2007, 10:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
I've got a friend who works for MBUSA- he says absolutely what the tape
on the trunk is disguising is an integrated spoiler ala the ducktail on the Z4 trunk.
We'll see.


Well, according to this pic it seems that your mate is spot on.

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      04-28-2007, 07:46 AM   #48
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Beyond Cult Status



When I talked about lifestyle what I mean is this car will change the way thousands of ordinary people feel about the driving experience.
RWD in a comparatively light car that is sporty with a great interior and backed up by a premium manufacturer is whatís going to seal the deal for a generation thatís mostly known only front wheel drive.

The 1-er is going to be an instant cult car.
Weíll be able to say that we knew all about it in the early days before it came into production -
or maybe some of us will be early adopters...the first people to own one in our neck of the woods....but the point is going to be moot once sales take off and we start seeing them everywhere.

If priced competetively, this is going to be the car that brings BMW into neighborhoods across the country for people who otherwise probably would have shopped Japanese.
And all the clever marketing strategies and historical tie-ins are only going to enhance itís image as the car to have.
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      04-28-2007, 09:04 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post



If priced competetively, this is going to be the car that brings BMW into neighborhoods across the country for people who otherwise probably would have shopped Japanese.
And all the clever marketing strategies and historical tie-ins are only going to enhance it’s image as the car to have.
I agree the pricing is the important part. Once you go over the $30K mark, we have plenty of RWD competitions from Japan like the S2000, 350Z, G35/37, and IS250/350. (in the order of sportiness) I think these cars can pretty much cover the whole spectrum of 1er's target demographic, with the exception of the small niche between the 350Z and the G35 in terms of performance/utility. Then of course there is the German premium appeal, but the buyers that are primarily concerned with this will again go for the 3 if the price difference is not substantial.

Under $30K there is a conspicuous lack of a good RWD non-roadster sporty car other than the Mustang and the likes. Therefore I think the base 1er needs to come in slightly under $30K with basic options like sports pack and Xenon if it were to hit the sweet spot of the market.
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      04-28-2007, 10:59 AM   #50
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Quote:
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I agree the pricing is the important part. Once you go over the $30K mark, we have plenty of RWD competitions from Japan like the S2000, 350Z, G35/37, and IS250/350. (in the order of sportiness) I think these cars can pretty much cover the whole spectrum of 1er's target demographic, with the exception of the small niche between the 350Z and the G35 in terms of performance/utility. Then of course there is the German premium appeal, but the buyers that are primarily concerned with this will again go for the 3 if the price difference is not substantial.

Under $30K there is a conspicuous lack of a good RWD non-roadster sporty car other than the Mustang and the likes. Therefore I think the base 1er needs to come in slightly under $30K with basic options like sports pack and Xenon if it were to hit the sweet spot of the market.
Both Spin, an Brook nailed it on the head. I have an s2000 and its incredible. I envision my 1er to be just like it in many ways but with 2 back seats and more refined.(the s2k isnt suppose to be refined, i kno)
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      04-28-2007, 03:55 PM   #51
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You can configure a 3 door 130i M-sport with the newly updated front end on the BMW England website. this may or may not be useful in imagining how the coupe and convertible might look.
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      04-29-2007, 02:19 PM   #52
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I've re-thought the price spread...because it is looking like we'll get an M-1.

I Guess...$26 - 45,000. with the sweet spot (3.0 manual, sports option, leather, 18" wheels, winter pkg.) being somewhere around 30 -31k.
Just a guess...but that's what I'm anticipating.
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      04-29-2007, 03:03 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
I've re-thought the price spread...because it is looking like we'll get an M-1.

I Guess...$26 - 45,000. with the sweet spot (3.0 manual, sports option, leather, 18" wheels, winter pkg.) being somewhere around 30 -31k.
Just a guess...but that's what I'm anticipating.
I don't know about the 18" on the base 1er since the sports package for the 328i only gives you 17". But other than that, those options bring the 328i to $37.5K, so we are talking about $6~7K gap between the 128i and the 328i.

I think that's on the optimistic side, but for this thing to be a real hit, I believe something like that will be very much necessary. In my mind $5K gap between the 1 and the 3 is the minimum. Anything smaller I think a lot of people would just get the 3.
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      04-29-2007, 05:19 PM   #54
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My guestimations:

128- $28,000

135- $34,000

M1- $45,000

Hopefully euro-delivery will be available on some of these models and bmw SHOULD include the 4yr 50k, covered service.
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      04-29-2007, 05:26 PM   #55
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The 18"'s as option.:biggrin:

But I'm very much expecting price overlap between the "1" and "3".
They'll have such different characteristics...size just for starters...
but I just don't expect the 1-er to be cheap. It's BMW. It's sporty.
We're going to have to pay for our fun...especially considering the dollar-to Euro exchange rate which is extremely one-sided for BMW....
basically the entire N/A market is getting a free ride by all the German manufacturers.

I'm not sure how BMW is doing these margins, but I know that N/A customers are getting a deal when I see what their line is selling for in other countries.
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      04-30-2007, 12:29 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinzero View Post
I think the big success of the MINI was first and foremost due to its instant desirability. It was certainly important that the driving dynamics backed up all the marketing hype, ("let's motor") but at the end of the day I think people buy it because it's such a cute car that you can paint in so many different ways and put on red leather seats.

I go to the MINI forums and regularly see people dropping over $30K on a loaded MINI. $30K for a 170HP B-segment hot hatch! It sure isn't reasonable, but people do it because a personalized MINI makes a statement like no other sub-$40K car can make.

I personally consider "making a lifestyle statement" an odd reason to buy a car, but if BMW can pull that off with the new 1er, I have no ground to object. That will certainly drive the price up, but then if it fails there may not be any 1er at all in the states, so it's fair in my book.
I think a lot of what you wrote is true, but I might take issue with with the way you weighted the success factors. The marketing of the MINI is innovative, but that's not enough to sell me a car. In the end, I bought my MINI in spite of the cute car thing and entirely because of the driving experience.

I completely agree that purchasing a particiular car to make a lilfestyle statement is IMO a bit questionable. When I was considering selling my M3 to purchase the MINI, I had several people question what type of lifestyle statement that would make. My response then, and now, is that the car I choose to drive should not be construed to mean anything other than: "I like this car." I don't intend to project any message whatsoever. That was true then, and if I get the 1 Coupe, it will be true again. I love the MINI and don't miss the M3 at all. I'm optimistic that a 135i M sport would replace the MINI with the same success, not because it has a great badge but because of how it drives. If it doesn't provide the great drving experience, I won't buy it.

Quote:
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Still, the question is whether this little coupe has the instant desirability like the MINI does. I have been excited about this car for close to two years now, but so far no version of the 1 series has given me the zing that the MINI does. In fact not quite even close. Will the target demographic really bite into the 2002 nostalgia with a car that really doesn't even resemble the original, and probably doesn't drive like it either?

But then again I don't even have an iPod, so I guess I'm just not cool enough to "get it". :biggrin:

EDIT: I'm not bashing the MINI in any way, I am seriously considering getting it over the 1. But I probably won't spend much more than $25K on it.
I guess it's fair to say that there are enough others out there buying cars for image and other reasons that manufacturers are smart to market to them. But I hope BMW uses the 1 series to get back to a pure driving experience. If anything, I think the MINI reinforces the viability of a small car with rewarding driving qualities. Whatever the case, the MINI is not style over substance (and I know that's not what you were saying), and I sincerely hope the 1 coupe isn't either.
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      04-30-2007, 03:04 PM   #57
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eMINI
"Whatever the case, the MINI is not style over substance (and I don't know that's not what you were saying), and I sincerely hope the 1 coupe isn't either."

Watch, we'll get both. Style and substance.:biggrin:
BMW must know exactly who is interested in this car...and I think it takes in a wide spectrum of people including those (like me!) who want some basic bang.
it wouldn't be coming here as a coupe...rather than a sedan if there wasn't a strong reason to match performance to the car's sporty design.
They aren't going to blow it...especially at introduction when there'll be a lot of people giving it a serious look.
Which engines are available, especially in the base model, and the price point is going to be the make or break deal from the get-go.

I don't see the 1-er as a niche model that's aimed (only) at the performance crowd...
even the guy who wants something that goes great,
handles great without breaking their bank account should be able to find what they want...
without feeling that they ended up with a cut-rate BMW.
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      04-30-2007, 03:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
Watch, we'll get both. Style and substance.:biggrin:
BMW must know exactly who is interested in this car...and I think it takes in a wide spectrum of people including those (like me!) who want some basic bang.
it wouldn't be coming here as a coupe...rather than a sedan if there wasn't a strong reason to match performance to the car's sporty design.
They aren't going to blow it...especially at introduction when there'll be a lot of people giving it a serious look.
Which engines are available, especially in the base model, and the price point is going to be the make or break deal from the get-go.

I don't see the 1-er as a niche model that's aimed (only) at the performance crowd...
even the guy who wants something that goes great,
handles great without breaking their bank account should be able to find what they want...
without feeling that they ended up with a cut-rate BMW.

Well, that will truly make my day. And, like you, I'm feeling very optimistic. BMW has an opportunity here to hit a grand slam. Unfortunately, my expectations are so high that a simple homerun will disappoint me. Still, my optimism is really high.

Uh... I guess I already said that.
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      04-30-2007, 04:03 PM   #59
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Whatever the case, the MINI is not style over substance (and I know that's not what you were saying), and I sincerely hope the 1 coupe isn't either.
BMW really did it right with the MINI. It strikes you hard with the styling, and also provides the performance to back it up. I do think it would've sold decently even if it weren't so pretty. But then again, if that was the case BMW couldn't possibly charge $1900 to put leather seats in a sub-compact. :biggrin:

I think s2k's price predictions are realisitc, possibly except for the M1. (who knows what the M1's gonna be like, let alone cost) But as I have said before, $4~5K spread between the 1 and the 3 is probably reasonable, which is also in line with s2k's guesstimations.
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      04-30-2007, 04:16 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
I don't see the 1-er as a niche model that's aimed (only) at the performance crowd...
even the guy who wants something that goes great,
handles great without breaking their bank account should be able to find what they want...
without feeling that they ended up with a cut-rate BMW.
This is the essence of it for me.

Priorities dictate that I won't have US$35K to spend on a car. Kids, a mortgage and a family car all relegate things like 306 bhp, 18" wheels and Dakota Leather to a pretty low place on the priority list.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to settle for a i4 turbo when every other post-1999 BMW in NA has an i6 or better. I really hope an i6 engine with 220+ bhp is available for somewhere aroung US$30K.

Like I've said in a previous post, if they introduce an i4, it has to be done to make a clear and convincing statement about giving BMW clients fuel economy-firendly choice. But if it's just about throwing out a cheaper option to snag some of the low-end of the market, offering an i4 in the absence of a reasonably priced i6 will fail, fail, fail...

Fingers crossed for a 128i or 130i...
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      04-30-2007, 07:39 PM   #61
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I'm such a big diesel fan so I think I'll go with the 120d or maybe even the new 2l with 200+ hp, so I'm really hoping that the coupe is getting this engine. The current 120d 3-door starts from 38.500€ so the coupe with the new engine may be a bit too expensive, but we'll see.
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