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      06-16-2007, 01:08 AM   #67
Devon K
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MINI is very close to being a BMW.
Close, but no cigar - it may have been designed by some of the same people but it's still not a BMW. It's clear BMW doesn't want it thought of as one either, or they would publicly call it the "BMW MINI" and would not have set up separate dealerships for it.

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Also, the Z8 is indeed a retro design and just about everyone would agree on that. The Z8 is based on the Z07 concept car which was designed to replicate, in a retro fashion, the popular (and very beautiful) 507 of the late 50s.
BMW may have tried to do retro with the Z28, but they didn't do retro - they failed miserably, as your linked photo makes clear. In stark contrast to the Mini/MINI, there is virtually no family resemblance between the 507 and the Z28 (which by the way was a very limited production car that never even appeared with right-hand drive - a tiny footnote in BMW history). Even the reincarnated Thunderbird looked much closer to its original embodiment, not to mention the Beetle.
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      06-16-2007, 01:53 PM   #68
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Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, but every single reviewer of the 1 series I have read - and I have read virtually everything in English out there - would disagree. "Only suitable for pets and young children" "for the limbless" "emergencies only" etc.

You keep repeating this but provide NO evidence (in the form of quotes etc.) to back up this claim. The quote I saw on this forum and elsewhere from a BMW US exec made it clear that they were trying to return to the performance parameters of the earlier models you mention (agility, lower weight, smaller size), but there was no mention made of emulating the look of these earlier models.
Well, reading is one thing, actually sitting in the car is another. I recommend trying the latter before setting your opinion in stone .

As for the direction they are taking with this car styling wise, well, there are PLENTY of statements from some insiders we have here and on GCZ making that connection. I don't particularly feel like spending my saturday searching for them, but if you still don't believe me, it shouldn't be hard for you to find them. But really, is it that hard for you to see how this car might compare, to say, an E30 3 series?
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      06-16-2007, 02:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Devon K View Post
Close, but no cigar - it may have been designed by some of the same people but it's still not a BMW. It's clear BMW doesn't want it thought of as one either, or they would publicly call it the "BMW MINI" and would not have set up separate dealerships for it.


BMW may have tried to do retro with the Z28, but they didn't do retro - they failed miserably, as your linked photo makes clear. In stark contrast to the Mini/MINI, there is virtually no family resemblance between the 507 and the Z28 (which by the way was a very limited production car that never even appeared with right-hand drive - a tiny footnote in BMW history). Even the reincarnated Thunderbird looked much closer to its original embodiment, not to mention the Beetle.
I have a feeling you like getting into arguments over semantics Devon . You have to understand that BMW is incredibly different from just about EVERY major car company out there, with a majority of it owned by one family. Thus, while you have a point that the MINI is not directly sold under the BMW brand name (duh), the brand, the engineering, the marketing, and the sales are all pretty much done by BMW. So while the MINI is not a true BMW, it is about as close to one as you can get without the roundel.

About your comments regarding the Z8 (not Z28), well I would have to say that your lack of experience with the car is betrayed by your comments. The interior of that car is thoroughly retro and the exterior shares many of the styling cues of the 507, if you look closely. The 507, btw, is far from a "tiny footnote in BMW history". It is considered one of the brands best designs and many consider it one of the most beautiful cars in the world
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      06-16-2007, 03:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by LonghornTX View Post
I have a feeling you like getting into arguments over semantics Devon . You have to understand that BMW is incredibly different from just about EVERY major car company out there, with a majority of it owned by one family. Thus, while you have a point that the MINI is not directly sold under the BMW brand name (duh), the brand, the engineering, the marketing, and the sales are all pretty much done by BMW. So while the MINI is not a true BMW, it is about as close to one as you can get without the roundel.

About your comments regarding the Z8 (not Z28), well I would have to say that your lack of experience with the car is betrayed by your comments. The interior of that car is thoroughly retro and the exterior shares many of the styling cues of the 507, if you look closely. The 507, btw, is far from a "tiny footnote in BMW history". It is considered one of the brands best designs and many consider it one of the most beautiful cars in the world
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      06-16-2007, 04:18 PM   #71
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Hey everyone, it's my first post here, but I've been reading the forum regularly.

For those who are criticizing the backseat of the 1er, I just want to say that it's not worse than other similar-sized hatchback we have in Europe, the only difference is the rwd transmission that reduce the legroom for the 5th seat.
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      06-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #72
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Hey everyone, it's my first post here, but I've been reading the forum regularly.

For those who are criticizing the backseat of the 1er, I just want to say that it's not worse than other similar-sized hatchback we have in Europe, the only difference is the rwd transmission that reduce the legroom for the 5th seat.
Thank you Pierre. Welcome to 1addicts' version of the Ali-Frazier fight.:biggrin:
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      06-16-2007, 08:06 PM   #73
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I was under the distinct impression that during the development of the coupe, there was a specific and dedicated effort to give it more backseat legroom due entirely to years of criticism that the 1er hatch has endured about inadequate rear seat legroom.

I cannot link to a specific article right now (and there's very little hard facts available about the coupe right now anyway so its a moot point) perhaps it was on Germancarfans.

I want to see a show of hands. Who in here actually thinks that BMW is going to let years of criticism fall on deaf ears, and introduce a coupe without making any effort at all to improve legroom? Do ya think the folks at BMW are stupid or something?
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      06-16-2007, 08:24 PM   #74
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I was under the distinct impression that during the development of the coupe, there was a specific and dedicated effort to give it more backseat legroom due entirely to years of criticism that the 1er hatch has endured about inadequate rear seat legroom.

I cannot link to a specific article right now (and there's very little hard facts available about the coupe right now anyway so its a moot point) perhaps it was on Germancarfans.

I want to see a show of hands. Who in here actually thinks that BMW is going to let years of criticism fall on deaf ears, and introduce a coupe without making any effort at all to improve legroom? Do ya think the folks at BMW are stupid or something?
Not trying to start an argument on there. But the purpose of this car is not to make the 3er coupe obsolete. Those looking for a few more inches of room should respectfully buy the 3er coupe.
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      06-16-2007, 08:40 PM   #75
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Not trying to start an argument on there. But the purpose of this car is not to make the 3er coupe obsolete. Those looking for a few more inches of room should respectfully buy the 3er coupe.
But the 1 series coupe just looks so much better. Plus its the flagship for the "Efficient dynamics strategy" . I saw this video which shows variable flaps behind the grill (at 2:05 in the video) to control air inlet/aerodynamics. I was unaware of this before today...anyone know any more?


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      06-16-2007, 08:47 PM   #76
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But the 1 series coupe just looks so much better. Plus its the flagship for the "Efficient dynamics strategy" . I saw this video which shows variable flaps behind the grill (at 2:05 in the video) to control air inlet/aerodynamics. I was unaware of this...anyone?


Great Video man!! I want that color on the interior.
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      06-16-2007, 10:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Devon K View Post
Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, but every single reviewer of the 1 series I have read - and I have read virtually everything in English out there - would disagree. "Only suitable for pets and young children" "for the limbless" "emergencies only" etc.
Devon, you seem very well versed in things BMW, but is there anything you find appealing about the 1-series?

I'm confused by someone who would participate in a niche product forum, but who would appear to have neither a shred of optimism nor enthusiasm for the product.
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      06-17-2007, 06:30 AM   #78
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Devon, you seem very well versed in things BMW, but is there anything you find appealing about the 1-series?

I'm confused by someone who would participate in a niche product forum, but who would appear to have neither a shred of optimism nor enthusiasm for the product.
100% agree.
Longhorn, this guy will never get it. No amount of logic is going to persuade him.
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      06-17-2007, 11:18 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries View Post
But the 1 series coupe just looks so much better. Plus its the flagship for the "Efficient dynamics strategy" . I saw this video which shows variable flaps behind the grill (at 2:05 in the video) to control air inlet/aerodynamics. I was unaware of this before today...anyone know any more?


Very nice vid. Thanks for the link.

But notice that he says the 3 door was made for people that don't really care about the space in the rear. (well of course) Aren't the target market for the coupe (allegedly) even less concerned about practicality? That is, will BMW really throw a major effort to make more legroom in the back, which would most likely require messing with "hard points" of the design? I doubt it. :iono:
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      06-24-2007, 11:08 PM   #80
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Touched Up.....

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      06-25-2007, 01:17 AM   #81
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100% agree.
Longhorn, this guy will never get it. No amount of logic is going to persuade him.
Some logic in those responses - just a lot of totally unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing wrong with that but let's not pretend it's anything else.

I have/had high hopes for this car, which is why I am on this forum. It is/was on the top of my next-car list. BMW has an opportunity to slot a really sleek small coupe into an uncontested RWD segment here, and I just hope they don't blow it with the final design - I don't doubt the mechanicals will be superb. I am withholding a final judgement until I see it in person since some cars don't photograph well, but so far the 1 coupe looks boxy and misproportioned to me, and too sedanish - it's a shape more attuned to the WRX/Evo crowd. I think BMW should be concerned about this type of reaction to the spy shots (which I have seen from a number of others on general non-Bimmer car blogs and forums) as it may negatively impact their sales. Maybe they can make some last minute panel adjustments but I very much doubt it at this point.
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