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      07-25-2007, 05:30 PM   #23
Won35i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket_Rocket View Post
Plenty of 335s running around with a BOV and running fine.
If you do not want to put one on yours then don't.. :iono:
Preach all you want.. people will do what they want.

You are right, completely. Its not my car. I just prefer to not blow up a 10k+ motor, eventually in a normal injection motor it would.
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      07-25-2007, 05:33 PM   #24
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I 100% agree with you that it isnt smart to run a BOV in place of a DV. However, as I said, it causes your engine to run rich. Its running lean that will blow up your motor!
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      07-25-2007, 05:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by chemhalo View Post
I think you may have this backwards. If the stock diverter valve recirculates air back between the MAF sensor and the turbo (DV After the MAF) you should not use a Blow off valve. This is because you are releasing pre-metered air and will cause your engine to run rich.
No, you want the MAF to be before/ahead of the DV on the intake piping because the metered air coming back through the piping needs to be read and adjusted before it is dumped out. I dont want to get technical with numbers, but lets say were running lean, all the MAF is is a temp sensor, the air heats it up to normal temps and when its outside of that normal level the MAF sends a signal to either add or lessen fuel delivery. Now, lets say that we put a DV before that MAF, air would be diverted either released atmospherically or back into the intake. In our case, we are running lean, so the metered fuel is pushed before it meets the MAF, making the ratio of air higher than fuel. The metered air then reaches the MAF where fuel would be adjusted. Now, that works, but we just lost economy because we lost fuel. With the MAF before the DV, it would have read that the fuel mixture was lean altered it by adding more fuel and bypassing the DV right back into the motor.

That is how a Audi Tech explained it to me. So if Im wrong, we can thank the pros.:w00t:
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      07-25-2007, 05:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by chemhalo View Post
I 100% agree with you that it isnt smart to run a BOV in place of a DV. However, as I said, it causes your engine to run rich. Its running lean that will blow up your motor!
Youre right, but either way in the spectrum of fuel mix can cause detonation. I forget the terminology for remnant fuel in the cylinder, but once more and more fuel is collected in the cylinder, you can have a very very big ignition.

Id rather run a little rich, especially on turbo motors, than lean. Like I said though, either can cause problems. We just have to find the happy medium, especially when boost levels are high.
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      07-25-2007, 05:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
That is how a Audi Tech explained it to me. So if Im wrong, we can thank the pros.:w00t:
An Audi tech? The DV on an Audi recirculates air (from the charge pipe pre-intercooler) into the intake after the MAF (between the MAF and turbo inlet). I can take a picture of the piping on my A4 if you want
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      07-25-2007, 05:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
You are right, completely. Its not my car. I just prefer to not blow up a 10k+ motor, eventually in a normal injection motor it would.
I appreciate your view. :respekt:
There is always so much hype over BOVs but I have not heard of one car where a blown engine was due to a BOV.
The worst I have heard is a choppy idle.
Everyone said the same thing about Evos and folks installed with no problems and have high mileage cars now with no problems.

For my edification.. and I am being serious... Can you point me to a post somewhere that shows that a BOV blew the engine? I mean where that was the end all and be all result was the BOV blew the engine.. I may just need to see it to believe it. This will be my 3rd Turbo car and 3rd forum I have been on where they say the same thing yet no posts of BOV blew my engine up.. I really would like to know before I make a mistake.

Either way.. I still think that HKS sounds AWESOME.. I had it on my SRT-4.
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      07-25-2007, 06:44 PM   #29
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People are aware that most BOV units come with recirculation fittings, making it a diverter valve, yet they will still be louder??

As the owner of a turbocharged direct injection car with a stock and HKS SSQV, I won't be changing the next one...
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      07-25-2007, 08:32 PM   #30
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As stated, moving from an internally waste-gated system to an externally one can impact A/F ratios. That said, if you are going to install an aftermarket BOV, do it right...

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      07-25-2007, 08:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggum View Post
People are aware that most BOV units come with recirculation fittings, making it a diverter valve, yet they will still be louder??

As the owner of a turbocharged direct injection car with a stock and HKS SSQV, I won't be changing the next one...
No the blowoff isnt as loud.
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      07-25-2007, 09:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket_Rocket View Post
I appreciate your view. :respekt:
There is always so much hype over BOVs but I have not heard of one car where a blown engine was due to a BOV.
The worst I have heard is a choppy idle.
Everyone said the same thing about Evos and folks installed with no problems and have high mileage cars now with no problems.

For my edification.. and I am being serious... Can you point me to a post somewhere that shows that a BOV blew the engine? I mean where that was the end all and be all result was the BOV blew the engine.. I may just need to see it to believe it. This will be my 3rd Turbo car and 3rd forum I have been on where they say the same thing yet no posts of BOV blew my engine up.. I really would like to know before I make a mistake.

Either way.. I still think that HKS sounds AWESOME.. I had it on my SRT-4.
I never said a BOV will blow a motor. Engines that dont need a MAF or MAP sensor ie 2jz it means nothing to, but for a MAF'd car detonation can happen from both rich or lean mixes. So no a BOV wont blow my motor, and lets not even go there, because we will have people thinking, " omg my motor is going to blow". Detonation blows motors, not parts, but parts can lead to detonation.

BTW, I love the SSQV. If and if I learn enough about BMWs DV and direct injection as long as I dont see an issue with fuel mixture I may end up doing something like that, but at stock form it would be futile besides for the noise. Function over fashion for me!
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      07-26-2007, 03:59 PM   #33
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I have done some reading on the E90 post and it looks like the N54 uses MAP sensors, not a MAF.

I will consider a BOV. There is nothing wrong with a little "whoosh" after throttle lift.

No screeching banshee trumpet siren, prob look at one of the hybrid valves, reroutes back into the intake, but also has a VTA.

The one I used on my miata was great - the VTA port sat higher than the recirc port. And average dump would just recirculate, but if you were running high boost and got off it fast it would VTA.

Sad to see people having to poop all over the fun. If you don't want one on your car, well, don't get one. Does it need it? Hell no. But what do you care?
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      07-26-2007, 04:08 PM   #34
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I have personally seen 5 335i's running blow off valves with no problems. I will be getting the HKS Super Sequential myself. Reputable vendors are selling blow off valve kits for the 335i. I doubt they would be selling a product they know would damage the car.
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      07-26-2007, 04:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eunosracr View Post
I have personally seen 5 335i's running blow off valves with no problems. I will be getting the HKS Super Sequential myself. Reputable vendors are selling blow off valve kits for the 335i. I doubt they would be selling a product they know would damage the car.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
:bs:

Im sorry.... With that comment, you must not have been around the game very long. They do whatever they need to do to make money.
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      07-26-2007, 04:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Won35i View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
:bs:

Im sorry.... With that comment, you must not have been around the game very long. They do whatever they need to do to make money.
I disagree. Companies who have been around for a long time such as AA would not be selling and installing these kits like crazy if they knew there was a potential to damage customer vehicles and their reputation. The profits generated from one of these 700 kits is not enough to cover them having to replace blown up motors left and right. Furthermore as I stated in my original post there are plenty of 335i's running hard with blow off valves.
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      07-26-2007, 04:38 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by eunosracr View Post
The profits generated from one of these 700 kits is not enough to cover them having to replace blown up motors left and right.
Excuse my ignorance, but do they actually warranty the motor? For how long?
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      07-26-2007, 04:40 PM   #38
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It won't blow up your motor. It will just run like crap and damage it over time. Go ahead and rice out your German machine. It will not help performance, just attract attention and laughs. I personally would point and laugh.
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      07-26-2007, 04:50 PM   #39
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Can someone on here verify they know of a 335i with a blow off valve that ran like crap? I have seen a handfull that run great with them. Yet you guys have no evidence of the car running like crap and are simply assuming the car will not run correctly when there are plenty of cars on the street running blow off valves which would prove otherwise. Feel free to prove me wrong. The evidence will speak for itself.
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      07-26-2007, 08:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eunosracr View Post
Can someone on here verify they know of a 335i with a blow off valve that ran like crap? I have seen a handfull that run great with them. Yet you guys have no evidence of the car running like crap and are simply assuming the car will not run correctly when there are plenty of cars on the street running blow off valves which would prove otherwise. Feel free to prove me wrong. The evidence will speak for itself.
If someone really cares, ask a reputable tuner like Vishnu. I wager they see no benefit to an external wastegate and can confirm potential a/f issues.
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      07-26-2007, 09:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by coolbluelb View Post
If someone really cares, ask a reputable tuner like Vishnu. I wager they see no benefit to an external wastegate and can confirm potential a/f issues.
Wastegate? We are talking about BOVs and DVs :wink: But you are technically correct, there would be no benefit to rigging an external wastegate with the stock turbos.

If its true that the N54 uses a MAP (not MAF) system, then BOVs are 100% OK. In that case, its all personal preference. My personal preference would be NOT to install a BOV even if it were OK.
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      07-27-2007, 12:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by coolbluelb View Post
If someone really cares, ask a reputable tuner like Vishnu. I wager they see no benefit to an external wastegate and can confirm potential a/f issues.

Seems like we need some turbo education in this forum. A wastegate and blow -off valve are totally different and worth totally different. Externally gated turbos are much much better for tuning and also instrumental for large turbos. Wastegates prevent overboosting. BOVs relieve charged air that is useless due to heat soak.
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      07-27-2007, 12:16 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by chemhalo View Post
Wastegate? We are talking about BOVs and DVs :wink: But you are technically correct, there would be no benefit to rigging an external wastegate with the stock turbos.

If its true that the N54 uses a MAP (not MAF) system, then BOVs are 100% OK. In that case, its all personal preference. My personal preference would be NOT to install a BOV even if it were OK.

They are essentially the same product, but we do need confirmation of that. They both read air.
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      07-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #44
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They are essentially the same product, but we do need confirmation of that. They both read air.

the end result to the ECU is similar - how they each do their job is quite different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_sensor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_absolute_pressure
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