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      08-10-2007, 08:37 AM   #67
chemhalo
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Why on earth is this thread still open?

Reading on e90post, it does sound like the N54 is MAP based and therefore could run a BOV with no issues. The air IS directed back into the intake, but probably for the sole reason of not adding that pshhhh sound that would drive most bimmer owners crazy!

Its completely personal preference of the owner if that is true.

And for those that want to slap on a BOV, you better find something to plug three holes with, because the N54 has 2 stock recirculating valves.

/thread... seriously
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      08-10-2007, 09:50 PM   #68
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[and since it sounds like you have half a clue at least, you'll know that running rich can cause trouble down the line.

Now, I don't know if BMW's twin-turbo engine uses BPVs or atmospheric BOVs, but I highly (no, make that VERY highly) suggest that you check it out before you "slap on" your HKS.[/quote]

I dont have a hafe A clue? Well i have already installed 2 Ultimate Racing HKS Super Sequential Blow Off Valve Kits on 335i coupe and sedan. It seems like you dont know shit, your talking to someone who has real life experiance son as far as running rich i can go on forever how this does not apply to what a BOV does read up slick pay attention :Without a blow off valve, when you let off of the gas, the compressed air in your intake piping increases to great pressures as the turbines in the turbocharger are forced to a screeching hault. The extreme pressure forces the air back through the turbocharger, increasing the wear on the turbo. With a blow off valve, when you let off of the gas the air pressure left in your intake piping is relieved as the blow off valve opens up. This allows your turbo to continue spinning in the proper direction, preventing damage to the turbo and allowing for a faster return to positive air pressure in the intake piping.

Please be advised after 5 twin turbo vehicles 3 single turbo cars and one reaching almost 1000whp on my last supra I do know what im talking about.................:wink:

M-TWINS TURBO
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      08-11-2007, 09:12 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
[and since it sounds like you have half a clue at least, you'll know that running rich can cause trouble down the line.

Now, I don't know if BMW's twin-turbo engine uses BPVs or atmospheric BOVs, but I highly (no, make that VERY highly) suggest that you check it out before you "slap on" your HKS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2 View Post
I dont have a hafe A clue? Well i have already installed 2 Ultimate Racing HKS Super Sequential Blow Off Valve Kits on 335i coupe and sedan. It seems like you dont know shit, your talking to someone who has real life experiance son as far as running rich i can go on forever how this does not apply to what a BOV does read up slick pay attention :Without a blow off valve, when you let off of the gas, the compressed air in your intake piping increases to great pressures as the turbines in the turbocharger are forced to a screeching hault. The extreme pressure forces the air back through the turbocharger, increasing the wear on the turbo. With a blow off valve, when you let off of the gas the air pressure left in your intake piping is relieved as the blow off valve opens up. This allows your turbo to continue spinning in the proper direction, preventing damage to the turbo and allowing for a faster return to positive air pressure in the intake piping.

Please be advised after 5 twin turbo vehicles 3 single turbo cars and one reaching almost 1000whp on my last supra I do know what im talking about.................:wink:

M-TWINS TURBO

Wow, you are not smart! You didn't even understand what he said.

The point being made is that the car has a BPV (bypass valve) that removes the charged air already. Putting a BOV on will have zero positive effect.
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      08-11-2007, 02:53 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidiansti View Post
Wow, you are not smart! You didn't even understand what he said.

The point being made is that the car has a BPV (bypass valve) that removes the charged air already. Putting a BOV on will have zero positive effect.
Or zero negative effect since this motor has a MAP not MAF sensor.
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      08-11-2007, 09:18 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eunosracr View Post
Or zero negative effect since this motor has a MAP not MAF sensor.

Might as well go ahead and throw a bunch of stickers, a fire extinguisher, an unpainted body kit, and an abnormally large tach on it too. Those are awesome!!!!!!
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      08-11-2007, 09:45 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidiansti View Post
Wow, you are not smart! You didn't even understand what he said.

The point being made is that the car has a BPV (bypass valve) that removes the charged air already. Putting a BOV on will have zero positive effect.
No he said to me that It will not work thats what i was getting into .. the stock BPV is not as strong as the unit i have installed you will find as you modify the engine especially with a procede or xede what ever there is a drastict change in turbo inlet pressure. And while testing the load on the turbos we found that maybe they may max out at around 400-450whp and thats pushing it (thanks to Haltech) and the stock BPV is maybe inadequate. i'm getting to far ahead here i understand a lot of you are just finding out about this 135 but i have been workin on this N54 and hope to develop future products for it and still learning my self what i can do to it. I apologize sometimes i may react abruptly without fully explaining myself but until you have worked on the actual car your speculating on what you know in theory. Once again i hope to make friends not rivals I have to many of that already in business..........lets just end this topic and when I get 135i will have a meet and show our stuff................

M
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      08-12-2007, 12:52 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
No he said to me that It will not work thats what i was getting into .. the stock BPV is not as strong as the unit i have installed you will find as you modify the engine especially with a procede or xede what ever there is a drastict change in turbo inlet pressure. And while testing the load on the turbos we found that maybe they may max out at around 400-450whp and that pushing it (thansk to Haltech) and the stock BPV is maybe inadequate. i'm getting to far ahead here i understand a lot of you are just finding out about this 135 but i have been workin on this N54 and hope to develop future products for it and still learning my self what i can do to it. I apologize sometimes i may react abruptly without fully explaining myself but until you have worked on the actual car your speculating on what you know in theory. Once again i hope to make friends not rivals I have to many of that already in business..........lets just end this topic and when I get 135i will have a meet and show or stuff................

M

Yeah, not for nothing, but your reply was pretty rough. I gave a friendly word of caution - admitting that I don't know specific things about the engine in question - yet you responded in a harsh manner. Really nice.
:iono:

You are bringing one set of experiences to the table, and I am bringing another. Let me explain a little bit about why the Subaru crowd (and there are a few of us on here) raise an eyebrow when we hear about "slapping on a BOV."

Subarus come stock with BPV - not an atmospheric BOV. The downside of releasing the air to atmosphere (in a Subaru) is that it has already been metered by the mass air sensor, and when it blows off, the ECU injects an incorrect amount of fuel into the cylinders. When that happens, the engine temporarily runs rich, as too much fuel is injected into the cylinders.

The temporary rich condition isnít usually that harmful, but it can cause bucking or hesitation on lift-throttle. If it goes on for a while, it can eventually foul spark plugs and even clog the catalytic converter as unburned fuel on the catalytic converter (Subies used to come with a pre-cat in an up-pipe - stock) burns very hot, and too much of it can cause the cat to deteriorate... sending chunks of pre-cat flying into the turbo.


Now, this doesn't stop people who don't research from immediately "slapping on" a BOV, only to have their turbo die an early death.

So, coming from this background, can you at least see why I responded with a word of caution? Obviously, the N54 is a completely different animal, but that's not going to stop me from modding cautiously. Even you just said that the stock BPVs "may" max out at around 400-450 whp. How many of us are going to be pushing that kind of power? Probably not many... and even for those of us who someday make that power from an N54, it's not like the BOV should necessarily be a *first* mod. But again, most probably won't make anywhere near that much power, so I don't see why a BOV would be a necessary mod for the overwhelming majority of 135i/335 owners.
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      08-12-2007, 01:29 AM   #74
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Yes i do realize most people wont go nuts and drive there cars and be very happy just how it is and thats fine i rspect that, but i have diffrent goal and im just so excited about this 135 that i just cant wait, the potential of this little beast its just going to be outstanding, i could have alreday gotten my 335i coupe but i have been waiting for BMW for this one, and yes i do agree, i should have explained my self further in what i fully plan to accomplish with my 135 I did not mean to come off so harsh i do hope to share my findings and hope to be of value to the site because at E90post forum those guys just hate the 135 i think there just pist they spent more money..........

M
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      08-12-2007, 01:09 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
Without a blow off valve, when you let off of the gas, the compressed air in your intake piping increases to great pressures as the turbines in the turbocharger are forced to a screeching hault. The extreme pressure forces the air back through the turbocharger, increasing the wear on the turbo.
Uhhh. The N54 has a DV... which serves the same function as the BOV. So your whole explanation of "without a BOV" is moot since the engine has a DV.

Also, just so you know, if there was enough force (pressure and backflow) to cause the turbine to come to a "screeching hault" (halt) you'd have much bigger problems than decreased efficiency. Your induction pipes would burst... not to mention the turbine itself would probably shatter. The backflow just slows the turbine down which is bad as has already been explained.

But like I said the engine already has a system in place to take care of this so "slapping on" a BOV as soon as you get the engine is going to do absolutely nothing for you except make it sound like a ricer.

Personally I'd never do that to such a nice engine, especially right when I got it. To each his own I guess.
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      08-12-2007, 08:41 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_ View Post
Uhhh. The N54 has a DV... which serves the same function as the BOV. So your whole explanation of "without a BOV" is moot since the engine has a DV.

Also, just so you know, if there was enough force (pressure and backflow) to cause the turbine to come to a "screeching hault" (halt) you'd have much bigger problems than decreased efficiency. Your induction pipes would burst... not to mention the turbine itself would probably shatter. The backflow just slows the turbine down which is bad as has already been explained.

But like I said the engine already has a system in place to take care of this so "slapping on" a BOV as soon as you get the engine is going to do absolutely nothing for you except make it sound like a ricer.

Personally I'd never do that to such a nice engine, especially right when I got it. To each his own I guess.
How many N54 have you personally modified already? How many hours have you spent on the dyno, and have you examined & Tested the turbos after a day of hard driving at the track? And as i have alreday expalined BOV is not just what im gonna do but a part of the bigger picture. Please lets end this alreday...................

M
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      08-12-2007, 09:39 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
How many N54 have you personally modified already? How many hours have you spent on the dyno, and have you examined & Tested the turbos after a day of hard driving at the track? And as i have alreday expalined BOV is not just what im gonna do but a part of the bigger picture. Please lets end this alreday...................

M
Wow, new to the site and already there is static, its all good, I do agree that most of these guys are gonna keep there car stock cause their afraid of losing the warrenty. As for me I am going to get a Blow-off valve beacsue I plan on modifiing my 135, hell companies like Active autowerks and Ultimate Racing alreday sell these kits on there modified 335i and 535i's. These are respected companies that use a BOV on there cars and they have ran numerous test are we to say there stupid I even heard a rumor Vishnu himself will have a kit out and most people think of him as a GOD in tuning. I personally have not worked on a N54 motor so I guess all i know is what i read but i do know a few boosted cars in socal even a BMW E46 M3 turbo i saw has a BOV & he said with out it the turbo show an extreme lag. But like what i said a lot of the guys in here wont cowboy up a fix up there cars but not me im going as far i can go..........
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      08-12-2007, 09:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_ View Post
Uhhh. The N54 has a DV... .
And no a N54 does not have a DV it has a BPV (bypass valve) ..
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      08-12-2007, 09:48 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by IvtecEM View Post
But like what i said a lot of the guys in here wont cowboy up a fix up there cars...
thats funny man welcome to the site and the static
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      08-12-2007, 10:02 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
How many N54 have you personally modified already?
17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech2 View Post
How many hours have you spent on the dyno, and have you examined & Tested the turbos after a day of hard driving at the track?
How many hours? Don't know I don't keep track... And yes.

BPV or DV (different names for the same thing) it still makes the BOV pointless.

Edit:
Let me try to explain a little more in-depth why a BOV is detrimental as opposed to the BPV (Compressor Bypass Valve, so there's no confusion).

Both of them reduce the negative effect of compressor surge. So they both serve the same function. The difference between the two is what happens to that air after it is relieved. BOV vent it to atmosphere, providing that whine that the ricers love.

The BPV vents it back to the intake of the turbo giving you better throttle and boost response. The whole point of the turbo is compressing air... the BPV gives you more already compressed air at the intake and therefore helps maintain the speed of the turbines.

Now if you're going to mod your car (I am) you may want to install a more hefty BPV depending on the performance you're looking for... but a BOV is still pointless.
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      08-13-2007, 12:30 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by IvtecEM View Post
...Vishnu himself will have a kit out and most people think of him as a GOD in tuning...
I don't know if you intended that as a pun or not, but the company Vishnu is named after a Hindu God, and the guy who runs Vishnu is named Shiv...

...and there are people who will never buy a damn thing from him, because of his history of (apparently) losing interest in platforms once something new comes out. Also, his prices are ridiculous.
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      08-13-2007, 09:53 AM   #82
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Even though the car is MAP based and not MAF based (as someone mentioned), is the computer not programmed to account for the air that is injected back into the system when off throttle pressure is recirculated?

I am trying to learn here. I am also coming from the Subaru realm where BOVs were bad because of the MAF.
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      08-13-2007, 10:34 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinazzurro View Post
I don't know if you intended that as a pun or not, but the company Vishnu is named after a Hindu God, and the guy who runs Vishnu is named Shiv...

...and there are people who will never buy a damn thing from him, because of his history of (apparently) losing interest in platforms once something new comes out. Also, his prices are ridiculous.
Despite his history, $1300 for the horsepower/torque gains of his current Procede setup isn't at all ridiculous. What will that money get you on a typical NA car, let's say an E46 M3 or new G37? Not f'n much...

E90post loves Shiv, and any discussions of his past dealings have been squelched pretty quickly as the dyno numbers appear. Nature of the business, I guess.
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      08-13-2007, 09:05 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinazzurro View Post
I don't know if you intended that as a pun or not, but the company Vishnu is named after a Hindu God, and the guy who runs Vishnu is named Shiv...

.
I meant his company Vishnu Tuning Performance, I did not make a pun or religous remark or anything thats simply the name of his company. And yes Shiv is his name nice guy I know a few guys from SOCAL DSM and the dealt with him fixin up there EVO's, thats all I can say bout that....
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      08-14-2007, 08:55 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by IvtecEM View Post
I meant his company Vishnu Tuning Performance, I did not make a pun or religous remark or anything thats simply the name of his company. And yes Shiv is his name nice guy I know a few guys from SOCAL DSM and the dealt with him fixin up there EVO's, thats all I can say bout that....
Yeah, when he was active in the Subaru community, he was a very nice guy as well... but then it seemed like he turned his back on us as soon as the next platform came out.
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      08-15-2007, 01:40 AM   #86
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Yeah, when he was active in the Subaru community, he was a very nice guy as well... but then it seemed like he turned his back on us as soon as the next platform came out.
But I think he did as much as he can for the Subies and Evo's I mean those kits go as mush as 500hp+ do they need anymore, or are you talkin about his lack of support on his old products after the next best thing comes along?
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      08-15-2007, 07:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by IvtecEM View Post
But I think he did as much as he can for the Subies and Evo's I mean those kits go as mush as 500hp+ do they need anymore, or are you talkin about his lack of support on his old products after the next best thing comes along?
Yes, that's pretty much what I meant.
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      08-16-2007, 01:07 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjack View Post
Even though the car is MAP based and not MAF based (as someone mentioned), is the computer not programmed to account for the air that is injected back into the system when off throttle pressure is recirculated?

I am trying to learn here. I am also coming from the Subaru realm where BOVs were bad because of the MAF.
I'm pretty sure the input for the recirc air is downstream of the MAP so that's why it doesn't matter.
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