BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      08-20-2007, 07:49 PM   #1
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Why do we get the 230hp 128...

And 328... When the rest of the world doesn't get the 230hp N52 at all, instead BMW slots in the higher hp/torque N52 derivatives?
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      08-20-2007, 08:00 PM   #2
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I don't get that either. It obviously should have been 135i, and a 265 hp 130i, but this way BMW can sell the 128i for 2-3 years then "upgrade" it (in both specs and price) to 130i as a refresh. The 128i is obviously an example of planned obsolescence, and the kind of thing that really turns me off of companies that do it to their customer base.
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      08-20-2007, 08:10 PM   #3
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Wolf nailed it...unfortunately that's BMW's N/A strategy and it penalizes, to an extent, 128 owners.
I say penalize because if you've had a chance to drive the 265hp version it's perfectly balanced, responsive and powerful..there's enuff extra grunt in reserve to always feel it.

If this had been offered in the 1-er I'd have gone for it in a flash. As is, the 128'll be a great car but if it had arrived here in the 3.0i version- it would have been the best deal by far.
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      08-20-2007, 08:24 PM   #4
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Look at it this way. Its gonna have almost 40 more horspower than a brand spankin new 328i from 2 years ago. An extra 60 would be a bit absurd IMO. Just because you have something dosent mean you use it.
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      08-20-2007, 08:36 PM   #5
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Barry, is that you talking? The 135 guy?

Tomorrow, go out and drive a 3.0i Z4...and tell me if that isn't the sweetest engine.
Your figures are correct but like they're saying on the weather channel, the measly difference between category 4 and category 5 tornados is category 5 leaves nothing standing.
I exagerrate but, samo between 2.8 and 3.0.
:biggrin:
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      08-20-2007, 09:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
Barry, is that you talking? The 135 guy?

Tomorrow, go out and drive a 3.0i Z4...and tell me if that isn't the sweetest engine.
Your figures are correct but like they're saying on the weather channel, the measly difference between category 4 and category 5 tornados is category 5 leaves nothing standing.
I exagerrate but, samo between 2.8 and 3.0.:biggrin:
Make no mistake Jim. I am still the 135i GUY!! There is no way I'm getting a 128i. It would be at the top of my list if I wasnt driving a high strung s2k. But I agree, that 260hp 3.0 engine is fantastic!! I just see why BMW did it. :smile: And I can also see why some ppl are a little miffed about it. I will go nuts when a first magazine gets to do a review. 4 magazines already got there hands on the E92 M3!
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      08-21-2007, 12:25 AM   #7
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Hopefully, the choice of the 128 instead of the 130 indicates that BMW will price the car as low as possible as a marque introduction car and that low price basis will help bring the 135 in at around 33K...

The 130 is quite premium - doesn't fit my perceived role of the 1er in the US - lure in fresh meat...
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      08-21-2007, 06:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurichan View Post
Hopefully, the choice of the 128 instead of the 130 indicates that BMW will price the car as low as possible as a marque introduction car and that low price basis will help bring the 135 in at around 33K...

The 130 is quite premium - doesn't fit my perceived role of the 1er in the US - lure in fresh meat...
How does this explain the 328?

Anyone know the physical differences between the two states of tune?

Personally, I enjoy NA motors more than turbo'd. And I have a "thing" for NA straight sixes--the two I owned have been two of my favorite engines, period. If the 128 was the 265hp version, I'd probably be leaning that direction. The difference between 230/200 and 300/300 is enormous, though, on the road.

WolfsburgerMitFries: VAG does this all the time. It is, indeed, quite annoying. I can understand power bumps that involve a lot of redesign to stay fresh in the market... But when you're talking about 1.8T's (and now, 2.0T) in various states of tune simply with a chip (discounting the 225hp TT, which had various other differences), that's just BS. My wife's 1.8T Bug is software-throttled, as were the original Jettas and A4's; if I log boost it's quite obvious where VW dials back the boost as the revs rise. It's not like the 170/180hp 1.8T's were any less reliable, VAG should have started there to begin with.

Which is what BMW should do, in an age of >260 hp Nissans and Hondas.
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      08-21-2007, 07:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside View Post
Tomorrow, go out and drive a 3.0i Z4...and tell me if that isn't the sweetest engine.:biggrin:

You mean the Z4 3.0si? It = 255hp whereas the 3.0i = 215hp :wink:
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      08-21-2007, 07:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateDriver View Post
You mean the Z4 3.0si? It = 255hp whereas the 3.0i = 215hp :wink:
Yes, my enthusiasm overwhelmed me.
Can I buy a vowel and complete the phrase?
"s".

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      08-21-2007, 07:40 AM   #11
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first let me say that i was praying for the 260 hp 3.0ltr and thats what i would have bought for sure for all the reasons that people mentioned, but that said, i have to defend bmw on the hp disparity between the 2 offerings(300 vs. 230 seems about right to me). what i would have hoped for then is that they had not detuned the low-end torque out of the n52 and given us 230/230(instead of 215/230) as the base engine. this would have satisfied the necessary hp disparity for marketing purposes but still have given us a almost the same performance as the 230/260 mill. put another way; it's the 85 extra ft-lbs. of the n54 that make it so hard to resist over what they gave us in the 128.
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      08-21-2007, 07:46 AM   #12
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Max torque is 200 lb-ft at 2750rpm. So it's a 100 lb-ft disadvantage.

It certainly felt a bit weak to me, being used to ~227 lb-ft (GLI's 2.0T) as soon as I can spool. The 328 was fun once I got it >~4000 rpms, and half the fun of the challenge was keeping it there. It sounded great up top and I bumped the limiter a few times--it feels like it could rev to the moon...
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      08-21-2007, 07:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
what i would have hoped for then is that they had not detuned the low-end torque out of the n52 and given us 230/230(instead of 215/230) as the base engine.


Just an FYI, but the max torque in the E90 330i is 220 ft-lbs of torque. Fairly weak in my opinion considering the weight of the vehicle. The Z4 3.0si = 220. The X3 3.0si = 225 and the X5 3.0si = 225.
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      08-21-2007, 08:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
Max torque is 200 lb-ft at 2750rpm. So it's a 100 lb-ft disadvantage.

It certainly felt a bit weak to me, being used to ~227 lb-ft (GLI's 2.0T) as soon as I can spool. The 328 was fun once I got it >~4000 rpms, and half the fun of the challenge was keeping it there. It sounded great up top and I bumped the limiter a few times--it feels like it could rev to the moon...
yup, you're right, it is 200ft-lbs! got confused somehow. well, that just enhances my point; its those HUNDRED extra ft-lbs. that make the 135 so hard to resist.
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      08-21-2007, 08:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
its those HUNDRED extra ft-lbs. that make the 135 so hard to resist.

+1
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      08-21-2007, 08:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateDriver View Post
Just an FYI, but the max torque in the E90 330i is 220 ft-lbs of torque. Fairly weak in my opinion considering the weight of the vehicle. The Z4 3.0si = 220. The X3 3.0si = 225 and the X5 3.0si = 225.
true, it is 220 over a broad rpm range, im not sure if the 200 of the 128 is a narrow peak or a plateau figure. also, i guess i was hoping for 230(actually 232 over a range) having seen that figure for the 130i but that was in eurospec.
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      08-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
true, it is 220 over a broad rpm range, im not sure if the 200 of the 128 is a narrow peak or a plateau figure. also, i guess i was hoping for 230(actually 232 over a range) having seen that figure for the 130i but that was in eurospec.
It wouldn't be perfect but you can easily get two points on opposite ends of the torque curve by converting the high RPM max HP value to torque.

Torque = (HP * 5252)/RPM

Since Torque = HP at 5252 RPM and the max HP value we were given is around 5300 RPM it looks like it may be a plateau of ~200 ftlbs of torque through most of the RPM range.

(Disclaimer: This is just a shot in the dark by playing with the numbers a bit. It may be completely off-base. If it's wrong, it's wrong - deal with it.)
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      08-21-2007, 12:38 PM   #18
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The 328's (and, presumeably 128) engine is spec'd at 230hp @ 6500rpm. So:

1. 200 lb-ft at 2750
2. 185 lb-ft @ 6500

Seems pretty broad and flat, to me. Unfortunately simply 30 down on the better motor, across the board.

So anyone know what the physical differences are?
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      08-21-2007, 01:00 PM   #19
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I think the reason that we get the 128i instead of the 130i is tied to the reason that we got the 328i instead of the 330i.

For some reason BMW launched the E90 just one year before they put out the N54 turbo. I still can't quite understand this, but I guess they had to follow some long range plan. Anyways this resulted in people paying $37K base for the 330i in the first year of production.

But a year later, BMW introduced 300/300 turbo and re-did the the whole lineup. The change was a lot more dramatic than any midlife makeover that I can remember, and it was only in the second year of production! They priced it VERY competitively too, where the 335i with 50 more HP and 80 more torque goes for only $2K more than the first year 330i.

This left BMW only two choices for the lower grade model. Either leave it as a 330i, and price it very close to the 335i since you can't tell the first year buyers that the same car costs $4K less a year later, or reduce the output, price it like a proper entry grade car, and call it something else. They of course went for the second choice.

I think it was a very lame decision on BMW's part, they could've also gone with a 3-model lineup, but they didn't. Now we are stuck with a "German engineered" 3.0L inline six with 230HP. The Subaru Legacy 3.0L H6 puts out 245HP. The Honda Accord 3.0L V6 puts out 244HP.

Sure 230HP is "enough" for such a small car, and sure E46 managed with less HP, and sure it's still more than the GTI etc etc. But it's not about that. When you are paying enough money to buy a well equipped midsize sedan for a premium compact coupe and sacrifice practicality, you should get certain things. Like well sorted out suspension, sporty bucket seats, slick transmission, low ride height, decent sized rims with sticky summers, etc. For me the list should definitely include a high revving engine with good power-to-displacement ratio. This is important because an engine without this will either run out of steam at high RPM, which means the acceleration decreases as the rev increases, or worse yet just gutless throughout the rev range.

And itís all the more absurd because the correct solution is just an ECU re-coding away for BMW. I just hate it when marketing takes precedence over engineering.
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      08-21-2007, 01:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinzero View Post
For some reason BMW launched the E90 just one year before they put out the N54 turbo. I still can't quite understand this, but I guess they had to follow some long range plan. Anyways this resulted in people paying $37K base for the 330i in the first year of production.

But a year later, BMW introduced 300/300 turbo and re-did the the whole lineup. The change was a lot more dramatic than any midlife makeover that I can remember, and it was only in the second year of production!
How quickly you forget the BMW introduced the E46 330ci coupe in 2001 less then a year after bringing out the 328ci coupe in 2000.
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      08-21-2007, 01:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
The 328's (and, presumeably 128) engine is spec'd at 230hp @ 6500rpm. So:

1. 200 lb-ft at 2750
2. 185 lb-ft @ 6500

Seems pretty broad and flat, to me. Unfortunately simply 30 down on the better motor, across the board.

So anyone know what the physical differences are?
200lb-ft out of a 3.0L engine is pretty bad in today's standard. I'm gonna have to actually drive it, but I expect the real world acceleration will be noticeably slower than my chipped WRX.
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      08-21-2007, 01:21 PM   #22
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"And itís all the more absurd because the correct solution is just an ECU re-coding away for BMW. "

Spin, its more than just ECU re-coding.
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