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      08-22-2007, 07:17 PM   #1
Feli_330i
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No M1.

I posted this as a reply on another "similar" thread but I want to hear what you guys have to say about it.



This is my opinion:

There will be NO 1-series based M1. Put it this way the 135i comes standard with an M aero-kit (this is the only car where the M aero-kit looks just the same as the one on the actual M cars NO FOGS, all other cars get the one with fogs) it has an M suspension and huge breaks. The car has 300hp and will do 0-60mph in about 5 secs.

Those are the facts so now lets ask some questions. What engine is BMW going to use on the M1 if there is one? The S54 343hp from the E46 M3??? I don't think so its too close to the power output from the N54 twin-turbo. Plus we have all seen what this engine can do with Procede or Xede and BMW knows this!!!!

Okay so now lets say BMW M comes out with a new engine that produces close or equal to 400hp . That would be too close to the M3 and it would hurt the sales on the M3.

They will not use a tweaked version of the N54 because the M Division only develops High Revving Naturally Aspired engines, this is what they are known for!!


Another fact is that there is already an M1! Produced from 1978 and 1981... and something very important: this is the first M car ever created and BMW will not name another one of their cars the same. Unless its a comeback and the car would be a supercar (over $100,000).

The 135i has too many things a usual M-Sport spec doesn't have and this makes it very special, and maybe BMW would have liked naming it the M1 but they couldn't. They couldn't put an LSD ... so they gave us this new electronic differential....The car is Turbo not N/A so it cannot be an full M car.

Probably in the future if the 1-series does very well and the M3 becomes more powerful, I just don't see a 1 -series based M car coming in the next couple of years.

They should have made a 125i with the 218hp I6 engine, a 130i with 27?hp I6 and then an M car with the tweaked S54 from the M3 CSL.

Sorry about the long post but I had to get this out of my head. and dont get me wrong I want a 135i very badly, but i am very sure there will be no M1.
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      08-22-2007, 07:27 PM   #2
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To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you - rather quite the opposite, but I think BMW will do an M1 based on the 1er Coupe without compunction if they can build a case for profits or halo effect.

The "if" is the key word, so I agree it's unlikely too.
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      08-22-2007, 07:32 PM   #3
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I agree that the 135i is a unique and interesting marketing move by BMW. The standard M aero-kit, M suspension, upgraded brakes, and electronic differential make it more like a M car than any previous non-M BMW that I can recall. Does this mean that there is no M1 in BMW's plans for the future. Maybe... But I can also see a scenario where the 1er lineup morphs into one with a diesel as the entry model, a 130i, and then a M1 as the top dog. A lot of this depends on the success of 1er and of course there are no guarantees. At this point I would give a 1er based M1 a 50-50 likelihood of being produced. In 2 to 3 years we should know for sure.
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      08-22-2007, 07:37 PM   #4
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Why, exactly, couldn't they give the 135i an LSD?

I can see why BMW wouldn't want to mess with the name of the famous M1, but they could feasibly just tweak the name a bit so that it's not the same as the old car. 135M? 135 M-Sport? M135? These might violate their anal-retentive naming convention, but it would be a means to an end.

Otherwise, I think you make some good points, especially in regards to the problem that would arise if a potential M 1-series was able to compete with the M3.
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      08-22-2007, 07:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feli_330i View Post
This is what I think:
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I'll leave it at that. We'll see in a year who 'thinks' correctly.
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      08-22-2007, 07:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinazzurro View Post
Why, exactly, couldn't they give the 135i an LSD?

I can see why BMW wouldn't want to mess with the name of the famous M1, but they could feasibly just tweak the name a bit so that it's not the same as the old car. 135M? 135 M-Sport? M135? These might violate their anal-retentive naming convention, but it would be a means to an end.
BMW stopped putting a LSD on non-M cars back in the early 90's, if it doesnt have the badge it doesnt have a LSD.

Isnt the 135i officially called by BMW 135i M-Sport? I am not sure... BMW stopped being "anal-retentive" with their naming starting 1999 when they introduced the 323i which had a 2.5L engine... from that point on you can see this on almost all the series. the 328i has a 3.0L when in the past the name would have called for a 2.8L under the bonnet .
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      08-22-2007, 08:01 PM   #7
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Here's an Idea....

We all know that BMW has made the 1 series the main focus of its "Efficient Dynamics" program. In order to really go strong with their increased mileage and cleaner burning technologies, BMW might offer every 1 series exclusively in a clean burning Diesel: a 120d, 123d, and a 135d. The 135d could use the same awesome engine that is in both the 335d and 535d. (which by the way will be introduced to the U.S. soon :headbang: )

Now, what if the M1 is developed with a high performance diesel engine in conjunction with weight saving technologies. Obviously that sounds crazy and out of the ordinary for BMW's M Group to do, but they and all other car companies are racing to quickly come up with ways to improve their fleet's mileage and "green up" their image. Basically, in the years ahead all car companies are dramatically going to change their ways... They'll have no choice.

Having a "greener", high performance diesel M1 might get a lot of people's attention and allow their diesel technology to breakout with a bang!

Just think about the car testers and magazine reviews?

FYI: I think the Audi R8 race car was a twin turbo V10 diesel and it performs like a monster...

Again, this is just an idea... Discuss it amongst yourselves.
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      08-22-2007, 08:03 PM   #8
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Myself think they will call it as stated the 135i m-sport. Think they will later bring out a 135i CSL. Don't think they will call it a M1.
Will be intresting if they do 3 door, 5 door, and coupe M1.
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      08-22-2007, 08:06 PM   #9
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I agree that there will be no M1. The M3 has 100hp more than the 335. There's nowhere to go with the 1-Series, which has identical hp to the 3-Series.

I also agree that the 135 is an interesting move for BMW. It has almost all of the performance goodies that a true M-car would have except for the M-diff. And hell, it even seems to have a better brake setup than the M3. It's sort of M-lite, which is why I want one!

There will be no M-diesel. At least not anytime in the near future. Even as good as modern diesels are... no way.
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      08-22-2007, 08:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feli_330i View Post
BMW stopped putting a LSD on non-M cars back in the early 90's, if it doesnt have the badge it doesnt have a LSD.
1999-2001 Z3 had a LSD

i agree with the OP. The only diff between an "M1" and the 135i is a slightly stiffer suspension, and a locking diff. Not viable for the company to charge $10k for those two goodies.

If they did, I doubt they would let a 1 series chew and spit out the new M3 a year after it gets put on the market.
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      08-22-2007, 09:26 PM   #11
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The people on here crack me up that say there will be NO M1. For those of us that have been on here for a while know that we have an "insider." Everything he has said about the one has come true. He says an M1 is in development and will be named as such. I put my money on "Scott". He does not post often but when he does he is on the mark. I refuse to get worked up from the newbies who just come in and spout off without doing research. Were all entitled to our opinion and thats fine. My opinion is heavily influenced from Scotts reputation. If it wasnt I would probably be preaching there is no M1 also. Thats all I shall say on this thread. DO SOME RESEARCH. :biggrin:
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      08-22-2007, 09:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
The people on here crack me up that say there will be NO M1. For those of us that have been on here for a while know that we have an "insider." Everything he has said about the one has come true. He says an M1 is in development and will be named as such. I put my money on "Scott". He does not post often but when he does he is on the mark. I refuse to get worked up from the newbies who just come in and spout off without doing research. Were all entitled to our opinion and thats fine. My opinion is heavily influenced from Scotts reputation. If it wasnt I would probably be preaching there is no M1 also. Thats all I shall say on this thread. DO SOME RESEARCH. :biggrin:
B...but... does it even matter? Like the 135i isn't fast enough?


<-- Won't cry if there's never an M'd 1-series.
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      08-22-2007, 09:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinazzurro View Post
B...but... does it even matter? Like the 135i isn't fast enough?


<-- Won't cry if there's never an M'd 1-series.
I said I was done commenting on this!!!!! haha. But yeah an 135i IS fast enough. But its not all about speed. I mean why are there so many versions of the 911 when the base on is fantastic enough. A base 135i is going to walk a whole laundry list of people who thought they could take on this baby bimmer.

I wouldnt cry if there wasnt an M either. You dont misss what you never had.
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      08-22-2007, 09:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feli_330i View Post
Isnt the 135i officially called by BMW 135i M-Sport? I am not sure... BMW stopped being "anal-retentive" with their naming starting 1999 when they introduced the 323i which had a 2.5L engine... from that point on you can see this on almost all the series. the 328i has a 3.0L when in the past the name would have called for a 2.8L under the bonnet .
Actually, it was back in the early 80's when the 320i had a 1.8 L. They later rebadged it as a 318i. But then there are the 325e and 528e, both of which had the 2.7 L eta engine.

And yes it's a 135i M Sport in Europe, but the M Sport is the trim level. It doesn't appear on the car.

Anyway, BMW is going to do whatever it feels is in the best interests of the company. Past actions do not necessarily predict what they will do in the future.
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      08-22-2007, 09:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feli_330i View Post
There will be NO 1-series based M1...
Or they could end-of-life the 135i and start selling an //M version of it in the following model year.

We really have no idea what will happen unless someone leaks their internal plans.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k
But yeah XYZ IS fast enough.
Blasphemy!
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      08-22-2007, 09:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
The people on here crack me up that say there will be NO M1. For those of us that have been on here for a while know that we have an "insider." Everything he has said about the one has come true. He says an M1 is in development and will be named as such. I put my money on "Scott". He does not post often but when he does he is on the mark. I refuse to get worked up from the newbies who just come in and spout off without doing research. Were all entitled to our opinion and thats fine. My opinion is heavily influenced from Scotts reputation. If it wasnt I would probably be preaching there is no M1 also. Thats all I shall say on this thread. DO SOME RESEARCH. :biggrin:
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      08-22-2007, 10:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDK135i View Post
Here's an Idea....

We all know that BMW has made the 1 series the main focus of its "Efficient Dynamics" program. In order to really go strong with their increased mileage and cleaner burning technologies, BMW might offer every 1 series exclusively in a clean burning Diesel: a 120d, 123d, and a 135d. The 135d could use the same awesome engine that is in both the 335d and 535d. (which by the way will be introduced to the U.S. soon :headbang: )

Now, what if the M1 is developed with a high performance diesel engine in conjunction with weight saving technologies. Obviously that sounds crazy and out of the ordinary for BMW's M Group to do, but they and all other car companies are racing to quickly come up with ways to improve their fleet's mileage and "green up" their image. Basically, in the years ahead all car companies are dramatically going to change their ways... They'll have no choice.

Having a "greener", high performance diesel M1 might get a lot of people's attention and allow their diesel technology to breakout with a bang!

Just think about the car testers and magazine reviews?

FYI: I think the Audi R8 race car was a twin turbo V10 diesel and it performs like a monster...

Again, this is just an idea... Discuss it amongst yourselves.
Interesting thoughts.

I agree that the automobile manufacturers are going to have to think "outside of the box". Who knows what the future will bring. High performance diesels are already available, just not in the US. Will we see a M diesel? Probably unlikely in the near future, but in 10 years or so it might be possible. There might even be battery or hydrogen powered M cars in the future. It certainly doesn't sound too appealing right now and borders on heresy for many M fanatics, but whether we like it not the world is changing.
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      08-22-2007, 10:19 PM   #18
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And on, and on, and on... God it's so long until March 22nd!
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      08-22-2007, 11:04 PM   #19
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Not this topic again.....
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