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      04-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #1
white911
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mini Track Report 2 tracks - 2 days

This past Friday I instructed for BSR at Friday at the Track and on Saturday with Porsche Club on the Jefferson Circuit. Weather on Friday began cold and wet. The 50 minute instructor session was on a wet track.

First, the car had 1140 miles on it and I have been very good about the break-in process and since I also have temporary tags and RFTs on it, it seemed like a good time to take it 'easy'. That said the car was blast on the track. I left the 'nannies' on. Trail braking will insure that the front does not plow too much. In fact the car is very well balanced and easy to drive.

Summit Point Circuit - Turn 1 and 2 could be treated as an increasing radius turn with slight camber. Turn in was crisp with a little looseness mid-corner which only required a slight flick of the wheel to tame.

Turn 3 again crisp turn in, loose mid corner.
Turn 4 high risk - I did not push turn in, again loose mid-corner.
Turn 5 slowest entry on the track, crisp turn-in, loose mid-corner.
Turn 6, 7, 8, close to neutral, you can pretty much induce what ever condition you want.
Turn 9 loose on exit. (Track undulations) During the student session, on the second warm-up/standing yellow laps, a Viper at this event buried itself in the trees track right just before the bridge and the driver had to be cut out.
Turn 10, again loose mid corner.

Brakes work very well, but the pads could use an upgrade. The power is there; but, I limited myself to 4000-4500 rpm and close to; but no full throttle. With all the restrictions I placed on the car, I was never in a position to yield to another car. In fact, the only data point I wanted to collect was the comparison to the E46 M3 -- caught, passed, and gapped. Ditto 350Z, Corvette, and and a host of other cars. Toward the end of my time on track I was catching a 335 (from the entry to 5 you can see across the infield to turns 7 and 8.

I declared that it was a good maiden voyage for that car.

Saturday's event was on the Jefferson Circuit and the morning was devoted to exercises with full course lapping in the afternoon. In the morning, I had charge of the Skid pad and proceeded over there early. I ran laps in both directions with different 'nannie' modes. Neither Nannie mode will prevent you from spinning, unlike some cars which will only allow you to push off the track.

What I did notice is, the nannie will intervene and chop power.
Dry Track --

During the Instructor lapping sessions, I lined up first, just ahead of a GT3 and a 996 Twin Turbo. Within two laps, I was passed by the GT3 and a 997 C2S. By then we had gapped the rest of the field pretty handily. I also raised my rev limit to 5K.

Observations -- turn 1 is a very slow speed that wants a really late turn in with a lot of rotation. Despite where your foot is on the gas with DSC, the nannie will not provide power until some of the yaw is killed.

Observation - RFTs heat up fast with huge pressure rise 10 to 14 psi. Max temp tire should be under 200F. That can be achieved quickly. If you are going to drive it on the track without track tires, get a good street tire, like a PS2 or a Toyo and you will have a blast. Save the RFTs for daily driving. Oil temps were never a problem.

I will post more if I think of it.
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      04-06-2008, 11:46 AM   #2
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Great review, I have two track days in May and your review helps me with my decision to get wheels and tires first.
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      04-06-2008, 11:46 AM   #3
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Alan - great report, thanks!!
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      04-06-2008, 01:18 PM   #4
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Very helpful, thanks Alan.
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      04-06-2008, 02:25 PM   #5
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Great report, Alan! Sounds like you had a fun couple of days.

DSC is intrusive in cutting the power. The eLSD mode is only active when you defeat the two normal modes. I wonder if your results might've been slightly different if you tried that mode out. The skidpad might've even let you induce throttle oversteer, and it certainly would not have cut the throttle.

I can't wait to try mine. Even with stock rubber, with the added camber, the car just turns in. Next event is in 3 weeks tho.

Thanks again for the track days impressions. Great read, and I hope you post more.
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      04-06-2008, 05:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Great report, Alan! Sounds like you had a fun couple of days.

DSC is intrusive in cutting the power. The eLSD mode is only active when you defeat the two normal modes. I wonder if your results might've been slightly different if you tried that mode out. The skidpad might've even let you induce throttle oversteer, and it certainly would not have cut the throttle.

Thanks again for the track days impressions. Great read, and I hope you post more.
As far as I can tell the DTC switch is a two position switch (DSC on, or off (DTC)). One press takes you from DSC to DTC. Pushing it again takes you back to DSC (no 'DTC' warning displayed on the panel). I hope I did not give the wrong impression; but, both modes allow you to get power oversteer, you just can't maintain it very long.
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      04-06-2008, 05:33 PM   #7
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Hold the DTC button for 4 seconds to defeat both... at that point, it's just eLSD that is enabled.

Excellent post, thanks!
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      04-06-2008, 05:33 PM   #8
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Hi Alan.. it's a three position system.

DSC+DTC
DTC only (Press & release)
DSC+DTC defeated and eLSD becomes active (press & hold for +5 sec) <--fun mode
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      04-06-2008, 06:03 PM   #9
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Cracka/Larryn -- thanks for the mode information. An hour on the skid pad all to myself before the students showed up and I missed that mode. I may have some more skidpad time on the 18th.

I could have really used that mode, particularly in turn 1.
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      04-06-2008, 06:40 PM   #10
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with traction and stability on, is the LSD disabled? how does that impede performance?
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      04-06-2008, 07:13 PM   #11
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Like Larry said HOLD the DSC button for 5 seconds or more and you will get the a different Dash light telling you that both DSC and DTC are off. The E-Diff will still work though and the car is a drift monster. Be careful though in this mode as it is very easy to oversteer if you are not ready for it.
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      04-06-2008, 07:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
I can't wait to try mine. Even with stock rubber, with the added camber, the car just turns in. Next event is in 3 weeks tho.
Larry, I thought that you only got 0.2 of added camber. Is that enough to make such a difference?

I am encouraged to see that the car seems to respond well to trail braking and can't wait to give it a try.
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      04-06-2008, 08:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
Larry, I thought that you only got 0.2 of added camber. Is that enough to make such a difference?

I am encouraged to see that the car seems to respond well to trail braking and can't wait to give it a try.

It was mikeo that only got -.2 added by removing the alignment pin. I lowered my car in addition to the pin removal, and got a good bit more than that.
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      04-07-2008, 08:57 AM   #14
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Nice report, thank you! I was signed up for the Jeff Circuit/SP 3-day at the end of the month, then three events this summer at Thunderbolt, but CANCELLED this weekend after a long heart to heart w/my spouse. Turns out she had pretty good recall of all the arguments I used on her prior to convincing her I needed an all-out racecar 10 yrs ago, you know, all the good reasons not to track your street car. Plus she reminded me how fastidious she is about keeping her car pristine and how loading the back of it with tires, tools, EZup, coolers, etc etc can't help but ding the vinyl etc. Not to mention karting season has started in earnest and the real driver in the family needs his crew chief.

So bottom line is I am officially on the market for not one but a pair of 'new' cars myself. If you know of a well prepared Spec Miata or a VanDiemen FF in the northeast, let me know!
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      04-07-2008, 09:53 AM   #15
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Great to hear such a promising track review.

I'll be going to lime Rock this Thursday with a set of 245 40 17 PS2s all around. I'll let you guys know how the car is with decent rubber. I also pulled the alignment pins.
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      04-07-2008, 10:39 AM   #16
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When are you instructing at FATT again?

I just noticed that May 23 and June 6 are on Shenandoah, and I'm tempted to go...
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      04-07-2008, 11:58 AM   #17
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When are you instructing at FATT again?

I just noticed that May 23 and June 6 are on Shenandoah, and I'm tempted to go...
I plan to be at the 18 April - FATT; but, I have a three day, 11-13, with PCA and possibly, Monday, Tuesday (14, 15) with BMW. Also, I will be leaving on the 20th for VIR, 21 and 22 April.

May 23, I will be in St Croix; but I do plan to be there for the 6 June FATT, because 7 & 8 June we (PCA) will be on the SC again. I generally don't bring the 911 to the Shenandoah Circuit because bottoming in the Carrousel has cost me money.

I look forward to seeing you there.
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      04-07-2008, 12:16 PM   #18
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I plan to be at the 18 April - FATT; but, I have a three day, 11-13, with PCA and possibly, Monday, Tuesday (14, 15) with BMW. Also, I will be leaving on the 20th for VIR, 21 and 22 April.

May 23, I will be in St Croix; but I do plan to be there for the 6 June FATT, because 7 & 8 June we (PCA) will be on the SC again. I generally don't bring the 911 to the Shenandoah Circuit because bottoming in the Carrousel has cost me money.

I look forward to seeing you there.
Yeah, that's a bumpy section - one that my stock-suspended E46 330 handled remarkably well.

So it looks like June 6... Hopefully I'll see you there.



Come to think about it... I did get an awesome ride in a caged white 911 at Shenandoah, running with the Schattenbaum chapter. Do you perchance have a brother who tracks a black 911?
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      04-14-2008, 05:32 AM   #19
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Exclamation Tyre pressures for track day?

I'm heading down to the Nurbergring in Germany with 2 other cars and a mad fella on a bike http://www.nurburgring.org.uk . We're all UK based and will be overnighting in Amsterdam then Cologne before hand. Should be European roads and around 800 miles round trip.

My Monte Carlo Blue 135i is 6 weeks old and I've been gentle so far!

Can anyone advise on the best tyre pressures for track days and/or long hi-speed autobahn driving?
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      04-14-2008, 05:00 PM   #20
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I'm heading down to the Nurbergring in Germany with 2 other cars and a mad fella on a bike http://www.nurburgring.org.uk . We're all UK based and will be overnighting in Amsterdam then Cologne before hand. Should be European roads and around 800 miles round trip.

My Monte Carlo Blue 135i is 6 weeks old and I've been gentle so far!

Can anyone advise on the best tyre pressures for track days and/or long hi-speed autobahn driving?
I envy your trip -- sounds great. Tyre pressures -- Take some baseline pressures and check them frequently. Don't let them go over 42psi hot. I would shoot for 40 hot and that may mean you have to start at 30-32 and bring the pressure up through hard driving and then check them again. You will probably have to valve off some more air. I just can't see starting out at 28. If you have a pyrometer make sure the tire doesn't go over 200F. Grip will go away fast if they do and you will ruin your run flats.
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      04-14-2008, 10:25 PM   #21
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Thanks for the track review! Sounds like you had a good time. The car is fairly impressive in its stock form, I've found. I think most of the journalists who complained about understeer came in a little too hot without doing anything to get to car rotated in.

I found (street driving on the alpine twisties) that there was still some understeer present, but not as bad as the rags made it out to be, though in all fairness I didn't push the car to its limits.

I'd definitely play around with leaving the DSC completely disabled next time you're out (button held for 5 seconds). I find BMW's system to be a bit intrusive for track driving, and even during spirited street driving I found the car much easier to rotate into tighter hairpins in "e-lsd" mode.
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