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      01-09-2009, 05:02 PM   #111
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I'd like more detailed info, as this thread is a bit light on tech of what a GT1 or an Autologic can do.

Like, if you had an older or aggressive tune, but went and used a GT1 to have those codes read and cleared, there should be no problem, correct?

Will a GT1 and an autologic both read and erase this invisible tuner code?

IMO, anyone who goes to a dealer for service with a piggyback installed is insane. You're playing with fire.
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      01-10-2009, 08:59 PM   #112
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Both the GT1 and Autologic scanners can read and clear the codes.....so by definition the codes are not "invisible" to these scanners.

Once cleared they should not be detectable via a regular scan at the dealer.....HOWEVER if your car goes in for service and the dealer files a PUMA case with BMW to authorize warranty work, BMW may remotely scan your ECM for raw data that is stored deeper in the ECM and they will analyze it for abnormalities/implausibilities if your warranty claim looks suspicious.

So bottom line is even if the dealer can't see the detection codes because you cleared them beforehand, this is not a guarantee that BMW won't.

However, I think you would have to have some pretty unusual circumstances even to invoke a PUMA claim.

Blown turbos would trigger a PUMA no doubt, I'm not so sure about HPFP's though.

Posters who have had their pumps replaced report mixed results. Sometimes the dealer files a PUMA claim and sometimes not at all.
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      02-22-2009, 04:10 AM   #113
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Im new on the scene here and I was wondering if my recent DMS Automotive ECU re program will be visible to BMW service. I drive a E87 BMW 135i Silver with a 07/08 build date. I will be contacting the company that did it for me just to check with them however they already did tell me that it is "hidden". Just thought I would ask the question here as well. Any help would be appreciated.
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      03-12-2009, 11:06 PM   #114
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DynoComp in Scottsdale, AZ can flash all 135i ECUs without detection.

I have no vested interest. Just passing along the info.

I told the owner about finding this forum. He should be dropping in tomorrow to explain their "process".

Here's their site:

http://www.dyno-comp.com/

Take care!
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      03-25-2009, 10:26 AM   #115
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I tried using the search function but had no luck,

I remember seeing a place that someone had pointed out that had a sticker that showed the version of the ECU somewhere underneath the cowl, and now I can't find it.

I know of the sticker on the inside of the door, and the date, but the problem is, I have a 3/08 car, and I wanted to see for sure what version I have. Anyone have a link to that, or could tell me where to see either v80 or 81?

Thanks!
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      03-25-2009, 11:07 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PL99 View Post
I tried using the search function but had no luck,

I remember seeing a place that someone had pointed out that had a sticker that showed the version of the ECU somewhere underneath the cowl, and now I can't find it.

I know of the sticker on the inside of the door, and the date, but the problem is, I have a 3/08 car, and I wanted to see for sure what version I have. Anyone have a link to that, or could tell me where to see either v80 or 81?

Thanks!
There is a sticker physically on the ECU. Follow the JB3 install instructions http://www.burgertuning.com/instruct..._pnp_guide.pdf to access it. The ECU is the grey looking box and is loose inside the ECU compartment. Pull it up after depressing the retention tabs to free it and you can read the entire lable including manufacture date, version number, etc.
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      03-25-2009, 02:16 PM   #117
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01/08 money!!!!!!
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      04-10-2009, 08:20 PM   #118
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So this voiding of warranty only applies to ECU mods right (which is what is meant by the tuning). I hope I can still put actual intakes and such in my soon to come 135i. >.<
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      04-16-2009, 10:14 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcafs View Post
Both the GT1 and Autologic scanners can read and clear the codes.....so by definition the codes are not "invisible" to these scanners.

Once cleared they should not be detectable via a regular scan at the dealer.....HOWEVER if your car goes in for service and the dealer files a PUMA case with BMW to authorize warranty work, BMW may remotely scan your ECM for raw data that is stored deeper in the ECM and they will analyze it for abnormalities/implausibilities if your warranty claim looks suspicious.

So bottom line is even if the dealer can't see the detection codes because you cleared them beforehand, this is not a guarantee that BMW won't.

However, I think you would have to have some pretty unusual circumstances even to invoke a PUMA claim.

Blown turbos would trigger a PUMA no doubt, I'm not so sure about HPFP's though.

Posters who have had their pumps replaced report mixed results. Sometimes the dealer files a PUMA claim and sometimes not at all.
i had a fuel injector valve go out and they opened a puma case. Does tuning a car usually take these out?
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      05-13-2009, 07:10 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New1 View Post
DynoComp in Scottsdale, AZ can flash all 135i ECUs without detection.

I have no vested interest. Just passing along the info.

I told the owner about finding this forum. He should be dropping in tomorrow to explain their "process".

Here's their site:

http://www.dyno-comp.com/

Take care!
I know Rich (the owner) and have spent a bit of $$$ there before. Definitely a high class place and they know their stuff. (They are the only RennTech certified dealer in the state for example)

I can head over there with any questions that need addressing.
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      06-13-2009, 04:47 PM   #121
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MSD81 will throw a tuner detection code with a flash, just like a piggyback. Unless you know what you are doing, and can disable it like we can
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      07-08-2009, 04:48 PM   #122
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Quote:
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MSD81 will throw a tuner detection code with a flash, just like a piggyback. Unless you know what you are doing, and can disable it like we can
My car is a 11/08 build so I should have MSD81, right?

After scanning my ECU, I noticed that it said I had MSD80.. What's up with that?
I also noticed that I haven't triggered any tuner codes either.. I've had my JB3 since 5000 miles ago, I have also had catless downpipes installed with the O2 Fix. Still, no triggered codes or 'shadow faults' found.

Am I just using the Bavarian Technic tool wrong or what?
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      08-31-2009, 04:11 AM   #123
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As advertised I never threw the Shadow fault on map 5 with intake and downpipes. Went to map 7 and sure enough a shadow fault for the fuel pump. I recently had a problem with my headlights not working. I took the car into the BMW dealer and had them look at them. I didn't feel like shooting wires or taking the car apart to find where the headlight control module is located. They first tried looking my fault up using their computer and the OBD port. It didn't take them long and they came to me in a panic, stated someone had modified my car and they they were pulling it out of the shop so I could leave immediatly. No charge just leave right away. I had cleared all faults with the BT and I made sure to get the shadow faults as well, I also used a BT scanner purchased from burger-tuning so I know I have the right thing. Some how with the JB3 on a stock map and showing no codes they found the tuner while looking for a headlight fault. They did not remove the ECU cover and they were not talking about my intake and down pipes.. they specifically said my ECU had been modified, they could not diagnose my problem or continue work on my car. I love my JB3 and knew when I bought this car I would not be staying within the lines required for a warranty. So no lose for me but be warned. I recommend you remove any tuner or flash before you take your car in reguardless of what service you are getting done. Or else you can lose your warranty.
My car is a 06/09 build definatly a MSD81 BT tool was used to scan clear and confirm all faults. and the car remained on stock map all the way to the BMW dealer.
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      12-29-2009, 05:02 AM   #124
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I think it's funny how so many threads exist on the worry of Tune / Warranty issue - especially when the signature mods on the OPs are loaded.

Just picture a guy rolling into the dealership with a different exhaust note, $5K wheels, dropped Suspension, under the hood is clearly visible DCI, DP's, FMIC, BOV, fingerprints all over the ECU box etc... and then they're worried dealer might suspect they have a tune... oh yeah, and their integrated boost gauge still shows the last stored boost reading of 15+.

enough with repetitive inquiries on tunes!!

BMW might have a hidden menu that shows the car has been driven well past the governor limit or went 0-60Mph in 3.5 sec...that would seem fishy to me.

Last edited by BBBluey; 12-29-2009 at 03:32 PM.
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      01-03-2010, 06:09 PM   #125
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Quote:
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I think it's funny how so many threads exist on the worry of Tune / Warranty issue - especially when the signature mods on the OPs are loaded.

Just picture a guy rolling into the dealership with a different exhaust note, $5K wheels, dropped Suspension, under the hood is clearly visible DCI, DP's, FMIC, BOV, fingerprints all over the ECU box etc... and then they're worried dealer might suspect they have a tune... oh yeah, and their integrated boost gauge still shows the last stored boost reading of 15+.

enough with repetitive inquiries on tunes!!

BMW might have a hidden menu that shows the car has been driven well past the governor limit or went 0-60Mph in 3.5 sec...that would seem fishy to me.
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      03-23-2010, 11:37 AM   #126
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so you can still tune your 135 lets say with a jb3 and it will still work but my dealer will know that my car is chipped?
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      10-12-2011, 12:23 AM   #127
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I deal with\own\ride BMW sport bikes.. But when it comes to these new bmw cars, any tune!! Any piggy-back, or ECU re-flash is now detectable at the dealer level as of Jan 1/2011... The dealers have been spending big $$ to put a stop to all the warranty claims on cars with mods... Yes this really sucks... There is NO tuner that can defeat the new program that's detecting these tunes... Took my tune off, had all codes cleared, unplugged battery and took it to a friend ( high level tech ) and had him scan my car.... He told me in short dont take my car in for any warranty work or PUMA claims for fuel system, turbo, sensors, or anything related to these items, or the ECU itself, etc... The (dealer hit-list) is long.. Just a note, FYI: My HPFP was failing due to my tune... on my N55 pwrd car..

I will also never buy another bmw automobile anytime soon.. The build quality of today is garbage compared to my last two fives and one 3 from 10-18 years ago... Another important note that shows BMW NA does not CARE about it's customers: All the techs take customer issues by parts swaping and hoping the problem goes away, they dont actually diagnose the problem at all... Just part swap... Which is SAD... Your car is a patient and the tech\mechanic is the Doc, when it comes in and should be diagnosed and given a prognosis, find the problem at its root and fix it, period..

Last edited by BimmerEngineer; 10-12-2011 at 12:45 AM.
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      10-12-2011, 12:47 AM   #128
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Any tune!! Any piggy-back, or ECU re-flash is now detectable at the dealer level as of Jan 1/2011... The dealers have been spending big $$ to put a stop to all the warranty claims on cars with mods... Yes this really sucks... There is NO tuner that can defeat the new program that's detecting these tunes... Took my piggy off, had all codes cleared, unplugged battery and took it to a friend ( high level tech ) and had him scan my car.... He told me in short dont take my car in for any warranty work or PUMA claims for fuel system, turbo, sensors related to these items, the ECU itself, etc... the list is long.. FYI: My HPFP is failing due to my tune... on my N55 pwrd car..
Is this dependent on the current software version loaded to your car? For instance, if my 09 is still on original software. is it just as identifiable? If your buddy scanned and told you not to go in for warranty work, then what did he find that triggers a modified ecu?
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      10-12-2011, 12:57 AM   #129
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MSD81 will throw a tuner detection code with a flash, just like a piggyback. Unless you know what you are doing, and can disable it like we can
You can't disable what you can't get access to... Certain things have been built into the sensors themselves that can't be removed by ANY computer except by the dealer software,... Certain codes, sensor parameters, etc are getting buried deep in the system that can't be corrected outside a dealer... BMW spent lots of $$ to defeat tuners and just released their meanest software update for tuner detection in Jan 2011...

Good luck in your endeavours with this....
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      10-12-2011, 01:06 AM   #130
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Is this dependent on the current software version loaded to your car? For instance, if my 09 is still on original software. is it just as identifiable? If your buddy scanned and told you not to go in for warranty work, then what did he find that triggers a modified ecu?
Pretty much similar to your post from 12/29/2009 @ 2:02 am but the software BMW is using today is FAR more sofisticated than back in 2009, Plus BMW AG has made changes to the ECU and other areas that can't be discovered by tuners such as MSD80\81 to the newer 2010 and especially 2011 N55 cars...

That's where my friendship comes into question... I've kown him for 15 years outside the dealer realm... He did'nt tell me directly, just that there are some built in sensors on the turbo and a few handfuls of other parts that store info and when these are breached past OEM limitations they leave a mark of sorts, like breaking a lock, which raises flags... RED flags... I'll be chatting with him thursday... I will try another dealer..... He made sure my visit was not put in the system anyware or tht he cleared it out.

Last edited by BimmerEngineer; 10-12-2011 at 01:12 AM.
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      10-12-2011, 03:15 PM   #131
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Pretty much similar to your post from 12/29/2009 @ 2:02 am but the software BMW is using today is FAR more sofisticated than back in 2009, Plus BMW AG has made changes to the ECU and other areas that can't be discovered by tuners such as MSD80\81 to the newer 2010 and especially 2011 N55 cars...

That's where my friendship comes into question... I've kown him for 15 years outside the dealer realm... He did'nt tell me directly, just that there are some built in sensors on the turbo and a few handfuls of other parts that store info and when these are breached past OEM limitations they leave a mark of sorts, like breaking a lock, which raises flags... RED flags... I'll be chatting with him thursday... I will try another dealer..... He made sure my visit was not put in the system anyware or tht he cleared it out.
Well anomylies happen so...finding a RED flag (OEM limitations breached/exceeded) could be argued as a software fault...maybe? People don't complain when their car is running faster and turbo lag decreases.
I would think that they have to actually find the tune connected to your car to prove you've been tinkering with the OEM software. Kind of like murder...you can suspect all you want but until you find the actual weapon with fingerprints etc .... Maybe I'm WAY off but ... if I know for a fact that I've never tuned my car but the dealer say's yes I have and refuses to perform warranty work, then how do I defend my position? Doesn't seem right to be at their sole discretion based on software that can be easily manipulated even by their own mechanics. I wonder if the JB+ would have the same effect considering it operates differently.
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      10-12-2011, 03:20 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by BimmerEngineer View Post
Pretty much similar to your post from 12/29/2009 @ 2:02 am but the software BMW is using today is FAR more sofisticated than back in 2009, Plus BMW AG has made changes to the ECU and other areas that can't be discovered by tuners such as MSD80\81 to the newer 2010 and especially 2011 N55 cars...

That's where my friendship comes into question... I've kown him for 15 years outside the dealer realm... He did'nt tell me directly, just that there are some built in sensors on the turbo and a few handfuls of other parts that store info and when these are breached past OEM limitations they leave a mark of sorts, like breaking a lock, which raises flags... RED flags... I'll be chatting with him thursday... I will try another dealer..... He made sure my visit was not put in the system anyware or tht he cleared it out.
He is a pretty shitty dude if you knew him for 15 years and didnt just take care of it.
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