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      11-29-2011, 02:18 PM   #133
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Can anyone tell me if i will lose my warranty on my car if i change the exhaust system?
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      12-05-2011, 05:02 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by BimmerEngineer View Post
Pretty much similar to your post from 12/29/2009 @ 2:02 am but the software BMW is using today is FAR more sofisticated than back in 2009, Plus BMW AG has made changes to the ECU and other areas that can't be discovered by tuners such as MSD80\81 to the newer 2010 and especially 2011 N55 cars...

That's where my friendship comes into question... I've kown him for 15 years outside the dealer realm... He did'nt tell me directly, just that there are some built in sensors on the turbo and a few handfuls of other parts that store info and when these are breached past OEM limitations they leave a mark of sorts, like breaking a lock, which raises flags... RED flags... I'll be chatting with him thursday... I will try another dealer..... He made sure my visit was not put in the system anyware or tht he cleared it out.
So even if the car is made stock (i.e. flashed removed), the initial flash can still be detected and values found when sent into the dealer?
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      12-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #135
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So even if the car is made stock (i.e. flashed removed), the initial flash can still be detected and values found when sent into the dealer?
It can yes. The ECU will store a fault code that will flash for the dealer when they read your car. This is why anyone who tunes has a BT tool, you can find and clear those fault codes before your dealer sees them
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      12-05-2011, 09:27 AM   #136
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It can yes. The ECU will store a fault code that will flash for the dealer when they read your car. This is why anyone who tunes has a BT tool, you can find and clear those fault codes before your dealer sees them

This is NOT true!

I have a flash tune and a BT scan tool. There are never any tuner codes thrown nor even a CEL or SES light w/my tune. A flash tune simple WORKS. Someone who is running apiggy tune can not say the same.

I think this whole topic that BMW can tell whether you have a tune or not is all total BS. Even with a piggy back tune - BMW can tell. Someone here posted a pdf from BMW NA showing thier techs how to recognize the tell tale evidence when the ECU box has been messed with. Broken clips and dust and strange wires.

I want someone to post some evidence that BMW can find a tune. I really doubt they can. Not enless they call in a special engineer to look into your DME/ECU.



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EDIT: see my post bellow. Looks like this is true fellas!!
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      12-06-2011, 04:31 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
This is NOT true!

I have a flash tune and a BT scan tool. There are never any tuner codes thrown nor even a CEL or SES light w/my tune. A flash tune simple WORKS. Someone who is running apiggy tune can not say the same.

I think this whole topic that BMW can tell whether you have a tune or not is all total BS. Even with a piggy back tune - BMW can tell. Someone here posted a pdf from BMW NA showing thier techs how to recognize the tell tale evidence when the ECU box has been messed with. Broken clips and dust and strange wires.

I want someone to post some evidence that BMW can find a tune. I really doubt they can. Not enless they call in a special engineer to look into your DME/ECU.
So if the fault codes are cleared we should be ok...

I wouldnt want to be the one to be a guinny pig to see if bmw can really do what they say. My dealer indicated that in the past 3months they have cancelled 3 n54 warrantees as they found a tune on the car.

I have bought a BT tool, and I want a flash, but when i take the car in I will remove the flash and clear all codes, i hope i will be in the clear after that. However someone mentioned that the ecu has a flash counetr on which indicates how many times the car has been flashed... is that a tell tale sign???
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      12-18-2011, 11:22 AM   #138
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what about cars before 3/08? Is the hardware different so flash tunes can't be detected or have they all been updated with software?
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      01-08-2012, 06:53 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
It can yes. The ECU will store a fault code that will flash for the dealer when they read your car. This is why anyone who tunes has a BT tool, you can find and clear those fault codes before your dealer sees them

Guys... BrokenVert and BimmerEngineer said awhile back that BMW AG now has anti-tuner software in thier GT1(and hence in our car's DME when we get an update). When you go in for service BMW can now detect MODs done to the engine DME. I did not believe that at first... but I was talking to my German dealer and he confirmed this to me. I did not even bring teh subject up... he was telling me about it! He said as soon as the car is scan'd for faults... the GT1 also checks the car's SW(and boost levels) for mods. IF something is detected, the car's VIN is flagged to BMW AG. No more warranty. I don't know all the specifics but it looks like this is very real.

They were right and I was wrong. I think this is very bad news for us MOD people.
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      01-08-2012, 10:46 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Guys... BrokenVert and BimmerEngineer said awhile back that BMW AG now has anti-tuner software in thier GT1(and hence in our car's DME when we get an update). When you go in for service BMW can now detect MODs done to the engine DME. I did not believe that at first... but I was talking to my German dealer and he confirmed this to me. I did not even bring teh subject up... he was telling me about it! He said as soon as the car is scan'd for faults... the GT1 also checks the car's SW(and boost levels) for mods. IF something is detected, the car's VIN is flagged to BMW AG. No more warranty. I don't know all the specifics but it looks like this is very real.

They were right and I was wrong. I think this is very bad news for us MOD people.
All years or just the newer (2011 up) ones?
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      01-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Guys... BrokenVert and BimmerEngineer said awhile back that BMW AG now has anti-tuner software in thier GT1(and hence in our car's DME when we get an update). When you go in for service BMW can now detect MODs done to the engine DME. I did not believe that at first... but I was talking to my German dealer and he confirmed this to me. I did not even bring teh subject up... he was telling me about it! He said as soon as the car is scan'd for faults... the GT1 also checks the car's SW(and boost levels) for mods. IF something is detected, the car's VIN is flagged to BMW AG. No more warranty. I don't know all the specifics but it looks like this is very real.

They were right and I was wrong. I think this is very bad news for us MOD people.

Does that mean there's nothing we can do to "clear" some of the fault codes that the GT1 detects before a dealer visit? Say with a BT Tool or something?
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      01-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post
Does that mean there's nothing we can do to "clear" some of the fault codes that the GT1 detects before a dealer visit? Say with a BT Tool or something?

I do not know for sure. My source just said that BMW "mother pc" compres the SW code to what the car 'should have". IF anything has been changed he said it flags the car. I will know more in a few days. Because I have to go back to my dealer for some work. I will ask more about this Big Brother stuff.


Btw... I think it was BimmerEngineer who said that some of the engine's sensors "record" higher boost levels or have a "tamper type tell-take". And no mater how you clear the faults memory, BMW will know. Not sure if THAT is true or not. But it wouldn't surprise me. But I use the BT scan tool and I have never had a code thrown due to my tune nor any shadow codes thrown. I think we need to know more about how BMW is going about this.


Dack
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      01-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #143
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We all take the risk when we mod our cars. It is no suprise to me that BMW is getting smart and designing technology to determine if BMW's are being modded.

With that being said, I am wondering if BMW will void hpfp warranties if they find a tune.

The N54 has proved to be pretty reiliable with a tune so I am not so worried about blowing an engne. We all need to drive our cars smart to avoid catastrophic failure.

The biggest concern that I have is drivetrain. I am not sure that our drive train is meant to handle 400rwhp and 400 torque. I have been running Cobb since I bought my car in Jan 2010 and I have not needed to go the dealership for any work. Hopefully I will see the same reliability for many years to come.
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      01-08-2012, 02:22 PM   #144
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As soon as I heard that the rumors that BMW could "see" aftermarket tunes I decided that I wasn't going to screw around with them and go the PPK route. Having just purchased a 2012 model, I certainly wouldn't want to void the warranty - that was part of the whole reason for trading in my old car.

The computers on these cars and the ones at the dealerships that tune and update them are so advanced, it's just silly to think that there's no way of detecting an aftermarket tune even after a tool is used to clear codes. Those error codes are just one way (and the easiest of course) that they could see tampering. Being able to "see" what a car's peak boost has been is most likely the only evidence that they would need to prove that you've had a tune, and I'm certain that it's pretty easy to extract that information.

These are only my thoughts and speculations of course, but like I said, they made me go with the PPK and now with more info coming out, I'm glad I did.

What really bugs me is the fact that as I was researching tunes, I contacted one of the most used companies on this forum with a question about whether the tune is truly undetectable. They gave me an absolute answer of "once you use the CAN tool, it's impossible for the dealership to detect." This is seemingly misinformation, irrelevantly innocent or intentional, very irresponsible and may end up causing someone to lose their warranty.
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      01-08-2012, 07:11 PM   #145
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If you push your stock turbos to twice the factory boost for a long time, why should BMW cover it? The same applies to a blown head gasket, etc.

The HPFP is a different story...
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      01-08-2012, 07:48 PM   #146
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The Dinan S2 boost is 15 psi, over 75% of stock. Cars with Dinan S2 tunes are considered "ok" and even installed at Dinan authorized dealerships (BMW).

So as far as engine reliability with higher boost than stock, not to worried about reliability. I have the latest TSB from BMW, I believe it mentions their tune detection method.

FYI, these hidden codes are able to be detected by the JB4 program; an OBD-II scanner will not be able to detect these codes.
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      01-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Guys... BrokenVert and BimmerEngineer said awhile back that BMW AG now has anti-tuner software in thier GT1(and hence in our car's DME when we get an update). When you go in for service BMW can now detect MODs done to the engine DME. I did not believe that at first... but I was talking to my German dealer and he confirmed this to me. I did not even bring teh subject up... he was telling me about it! He said as soon as the car is scan'd for faults... the GT1 also checks the car's SW(and boost levels) for mods. IF something is detected, the car's VIN is flagged to BMW AG. No more warranty. I don't know all the specifics but it looks like this is very real.

They were right and I was wrong. I think this is very bad news for us MOD people.
That's a bummer but honestly to be expected.
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      01-09-2012, 10:22 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
The Dinan S2 boost is 15 psi, over 75% of stock. Cars with Dinan S2 tunes are considered "ok" and even installed at Dinan authorized dealerships (BMW).

So as far as engine reliability with higher boost than stock, not to worried about reliability. I have the latest TSB from BMW, I believe it mentions their tune detection method.

FYI, these hidden codes are able to be detected by the JB4 program; an OBD-II scanner will not be able to detect these codes.
Thanks for the info 135i vs

I'm interested in this part of the bulletin:

Aftermarket N54 DME software modifications usually do not change either programmed or basic DME part numbers, so it is not possible to identify this alteration via DME identification pages.

Sounds like they are talking about flashes and not piggybacks here -- sound right?

In certain cases, the MSD80 DME software modifications can be detected by executing test module "S1214 NG6OBDII/Read codes" (reading of the OBD readiness codes). If the readiness code for the "Fuel Tank Ventilation" shows "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no"), this is an indication that evaporation system function is not supported by the DME and the original BMW software was altered. (In this situation, when using the aftermarket scanning tool for checking readiness monitors, the Evaporation System status would be displayed as "Not Supported".) [emphasis added]

Presumably, this means that if you fail your inspection because of readiness issues, then BMW would be able to detect the aftermarket tune. Am I reading this correctly?


Another issue entirely, is if this is the GT1 system that BrokenVert and Dackel are talking about. Hopefully it is.
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      01-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post

In certain cases, the MSD80 DME software modifications can be detected by executing test module "S1214 NG6OBDII/Read codes" (reading of the OBD readiness codes). If the readiness code for the "Fuel Tank Ventilation" shows "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no"), this is an indication that evaporation system function is not supported by the DME and the original BMW software was altered. (In this situation, when using the aftermarket scanning tool for checking readiness monitors, the Evaporation System status would be displayed as "Not Supported".) [emphasis added]

Presumably, this means that if you fail your inspection because of readiness issues, then BMW would be able to detect the aftermarket tune. Am I reading this correctly?
I think they mean that if you go into the "test menu' with the GT1 scan tool... to test the "Fuel Tank Ventilation", you can then quickly see wether the DME has been modifed or not via the "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no") Readiness.


On a side note... I can not seem to open that pdf. I keep getting an "damage error" with Adobe when I try opening it!
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      01-09-2012, 12:18 PM   #150
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After reading this forum for several years,it seem every day or so someone will ask wheither this or that will void their warranty. It varies from a tune to an aftermarket muffler clamp. I would like to hear from members who have actually had their warranty voided or refused warranty work because of a mod. Remember BMW pays the dealer to do the work and with the high labor cost of the dealer it would be in the dealers intrest to make any repairs. I understand items such as a blown engine, ect would require futher investigation,but other items would just be money in the dealers pocket. If you have been turned down for a warranty claim due to some mod that should not have affected the problem please let us know as alot of members would be interested in hearing about it. Much thanks
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      01-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post
Thanks for the info 135i vs

I'm interested in this part of the bulletin:

Aftermarket N54 DME software modifications usually do not change either programmed or basic DME part numbers, so it is not possible to identify this alteration via DME identification pages.

Sounds like they are talking about flashes and not piggybacks here -- sound right?

In certain cases, the MSD80 DME software modifications can be detected by executing test module "S1214 NG6OBDII/Read codes" (reading of the OBD readiness codes). If the readiness code for the "Fuel Tank Ventilation" shows "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no"), this is an indication that evaporation system function is not supported by the DME and the original BMW software was altered. (In this situation, when using the aftermarket scanning tool for checking readiness monitors, the Evaporation System status would be displayed as "Not Supported".) [emphasis added]

Presumably, this means that if you fail your inspection because of readiness issues, then BMW would be able to detect the aftermarket tune. Am I reading this correctly?


Another issue entirely, is if this is the GT1 system that BrokenVert and Dackel are talking about. Hopefully it is.
Yes, they are talking about piggyback tunes, this is why they created the software in this bulliten (lastest released) to output codes, 2D18, etc.

Regarding the emmisions, there is a way you have to prepare the car to pass inspection. All monitors have to be in "Ready" mode. If any is "Incomplete", it will not pass inspection.

To get a tuned car in ready mode, the piggy back needs to be turned off, the car needs to be driven about 100 miles and have at least 3 start/off cycles. I would connect a scanner and confirm all modes are in "Ready" mode before attempting to get an inspection.
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      01-09-2012, 12:37 PM   #152
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Quote:
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Regarding the emmisions, there is a way you have to prepare the car to pass inspection. All monitors have to be in "Ready" mode. If any is "Incomplete", it will not pass inspection.



To get a tuned car in ready mode, the piggy back needs to be turned off, the car needs to be driven about 100 miles and have at least 3 start/off cycles. I would connect a scanner and confirm all modes are in "Ready" mode before attempting to get an inspection.



Posted this in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue View Post
^^Correct

Also, make sure that once you have the tune off (so it doesn't blind your sensors) you complete a drive cycle to get all your sensors reading again. If you don't do this, your car will be rejected by the inspection machine.



Follow the directions here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365042
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      01-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #153
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I'll just post the directions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TT1351 View Post
What do you consider a complete cycle drive? I have been told its not the mile you put on, it the number of duty days, I have further been told its 10 duty days, meaning you have to drive it for 10 different days to give the ECU the data it needs to store so it doesn't read empty when the ECU is hooked up to the OBD 2 tester. Anyone else hear the same thing? I have cleared codes thinking I can go in and get retested after driving 100 miles or so as indicated by the inspector at the inspection station only to still get the message not enough data or no data exists. I know the BT Scanner clears out the ECU of any stored data, while I have used other code clearer's that only remove the code indicated, namely banks 1 and 2 catalysts not performing as they should. Fran



Quote:
Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
HOV! It's Bren. I wrote this a long time ago check it out.





Some people have trouble setting ODB2 readiness like myself and received "R" stickers because they



a) never drive their car



b) they leave their driveway in an 8k rpm launch or it doesn't reach these criteria



c) commute doesnt satisfy criteria even after months of driving



Readiness is cleared everytime a CEL is cleared, battery is pulled, new tune is loaded, or fuel trims are 0'd





Here’s the cycle I use to "set" it back up:



1) Start cold engine and idle for approximately 2 minutes, 10 seconds. This checks secondary air injection and evaporative leak detection systems.



2) Accelerate to 20-30 MPH and maintain steady speed for 3 minutes, 15 seconds. This establishes closed loop oxy-sensor operations, response times & switching times.



3) Accelerate to 40-60 MPH and maintain steady speed for 15-20 minutes. This evaluates catalytic converters while oxy-sensor response and switching times are checked.



4) De-accelerate and come to a stop. Idle in gear for 5-6 minutes. This checks evaporative leak detection system.



Remember:

The diagnostic checks above will be discontinued if:

1) Engine speeds exceed 3000 RPM

2) Large fluctuations in throttle position

3) Road speeds exceed 60 MPH



Below is the PDF:



http://www.europeantransmissions.com...0Procedure.pdf
I have done this plenty of times while testing out o2 defoulers. Works perfectly. If you have a scan tool you can actually watch the sensors come online while doing the drive cycle. You need a clear road to be able to go slow for a couple minutes and then faster for a couple more. I did mine late at night on the highway and as I said it worked perfectly.
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      01-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #154
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I'm with you.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Fasst1 View Post
After reading this forum for several years,it seem every day or so someone will ask wheither this or that will void their warranty. It varies from a tune to an aftermarket muffler clamp. I would like to hear from members who have actually had their warranty voided or refused warranty work because of a mod. Remember BMW pays the dealer to do the work and with the high labor cost of the dealer it would be in the dealers intrest to make any repairs. I understand items such as a blown engine, ect would require futher investigation,but other items would just be money in the dealers pocket. If you have been turned down for a warranty claim due to some mod that should not have affected the problem please let us know as alot of members would be interested in hearing about it. Much thanks
Where are all the real-life, my-warranty-was-cancelled stories? Unless I've missed something (possible - there seem to be 100's of related posts), all I've seen is conjecture. BMW could save a lot of $'s in ECU tracking R&D and just monitor these forums. Hope you guys aren't posting your VIN....
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