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      07-07-2008, 08:16 PM   #1
phrozen
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Any interest in no-lift shift and 2-step launch control?

Hi,

I am new to this forum, but I would like to gauge interest in an add-on module that would add no-lift shifting and a 2-step launch control to your cars.

No-lift shifting allows you to shift a manual transmission car without taking your foot off the gas. It does this by briefly cutting the ignition during the shift to prevent the engine from revving up and to help the transmission get into the next gear easily. Done quickly, this will allow a turbocharged engine to hold boost through the shift. On a large turbo car we have been able to shave an average of 0.5 seconds in the quarter mile with this. Our record time is 0.7 seconds.

2-Step Launch Control allows you to program a desired launch RPM, then if you press the clutch and subsequently floor the gas, the engine will rev up and the add-on module will kick in to hold your desired RPM. It will cut spark to accomplish this. The turbo will also develop boost. You can use this feature at the track for a more consistent and more powerful launch in boost.

We have developed an add-on module that adds these features to just about any car that meets the following requirements:
  1. Coil-on plug ignition - Our add-on module should work with nearly any engine with coil-on-plug ignition with built-in igniters. You can tell if your coil-on-plug ignition has built-in igniters if the coils have 3 or more wires at the connector.
  2. A throttle position sensor (or accelerator position sensor if your car is drive by wire) - Every car is going to have this.
  3. A clutch up switch - Any car that either has cruise control or had the option for cruise control will likely have this. A quick look under your dash will tell you if it is present or not. There will always be at least one switch on the clutch pedal for the starter safety interlock. We cannot use this switch because the signal comes too late during the shift. There should be a second switch that activates near the top of the clutch pedal travel. This is typically used to deactivate cruise control when the driver steps on the clutch. So far we have found this switch on most cars we've looked at, so we suspect you will have this as well. If you don't have it, you could possibly add one, but it will be difficult to figure out how to mount it and secure it properly.
Let me know if you think this would be helpful for your cars and if you are interested.

Thank you!
-Jon



Hello everyone! I would like to introduce our company, N2MB racing. We make performance electronics for turbocharged cars. Our base is in the SRT-4 community and you can check us out over on SRTForums here: N2MB Racing - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

We have decided to branch out into new vehicle communities and bring our popular WOT Box product to the 1 series.



The WOT Box is really two products in one. It has a no-lift shift feature and a 2-Step launch controller. You can choose to buy the WOT Box with just the no-lift shift feature, just the 2-step launch control, or both features. The hardware is the same, so if at any time to want to upgrade, you can.

The no-lift shift feature makes WOT shifting easy by reducing your engine's power for a very short period while you WOT shift. It allows the synchros in your transmission to mesh easily, reducing the chance of missing a gear and damaging your transmission. It also allows you to hold boost through the shift, thereby significantly improving your E.T.

The major benefits are:


* Lower ETs
* Reduced chance of missing a gear
* More consistent, effortless shifts
* Reduced wear on the transmission
* Reduced chance of major transmission damage

The 2-Step Launch Control modulates the ignition by dropping power to individual ignition coils to hold the RPM you want to launch at. Since you are at WOT while doing this, the turbo will spool up. You can use this feature for a more consistent and more powerful launch in boost!


How does the WOT Box work?


The split second that you place your foot on the clutch pedal with the throttle all the way down, a signal is sent to the WOT Box that a shift has been initiated. When the module sees the signal from the clutch switch it will reduce engine power by cutting the ignition. This helps you complete the WOT shift easily, without getting locked out of the next gear or damaging your syncros. If you do it fast enough, you will hold boost through the shift. The result is drastically reduced E.T.s.

The drivers in our test cars describe using the WOT BOX as sitting in the car and going through the gearbox with the engine off!! All the drivers were amazed at how smooth the gearbox was. The transition from gear to gear is effortless and the boost gauge would barely show a blip between the shifts. We were able to test on an Evo8 with a laggy 60-1 turbo and managed to hold 30+ psi through every gear! Even on a stock turbo equipped Dodge SRT-4 we were able to knock 3 tenths off e.t. by simply hooking the box up. Our big turbo SRT-4 cars were able to drop up to 5-7 tenths off their E.T. with the WOT Box alone!

Will the WOT Box affect normal driving?

No. The WOT Box will only activate when you are WOT Shifting. Normal shifts will be ignored and continue to work just as you expect. You won't even know its there, until you make a WOT Shift!

How do I use it?
To use the WOT Shift feature, keep your foot fully on the gas and shift quickly using the clutch. Keep the gas fully depressed through the shift. The WOT Box will detect the clutch switch signal and briefly cut the ignition to enable an effortless shift.

To use the 2-Step Launch Control, fully depress the clutch. Next, fully depress the gas. The engine will rev up and hold the RPM that you have set. Quickly release the clutch while leaving the gas fully depressed to launch the car.

Do you have videos of the WOT Box

Here are some great videos of the WOT Box on the MS3:
YouTube - Mazdaspeed 3 WOT BOX/2step controller
YouTube - N2MB WOT Box/2step controller on MS3
YouTube - Mazdaspeed 3 WOT BOX/2step controller

YouTube - WOT Box 2-Step MAZDASPEED3 - 3000 RPM
YouTube - WOT Box 2-Step MAZDASPEED3 - 4000 RPM
YouTube - WOT Box 2-Step MAZDASPEED3 - 5000 RPM
YouTube - WOT Box 2-Step MAZDASPEED3

N2MB WOT Box 40 roll - Video

These videos were originally posted here:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...step-vids.html

We also have a lot more videos of the WOT Box on our website here:
NP Complete Performance - WOT Box In Action

How do I program it?
Check out the users guide here to see how easy it is to set the 2-step RPM and optional manual ignition kill time:
NP Complete Performance - WOT Box Users Guide

How hard is the WOT Box to install?
The installation only involves 6 wires, and should take only about an hour to complete. A full set of installation instructions will be posted as soon as we can identify the proper wires on your car.

What about the unburnt fuel that will be present in the exhaust while WOT Shifting and 2-stepping?

Every after market part comes with some extra risk of damage or some additional wear and tear on your car. It has to be that way. If there was a way to get free extra performance out of your car, the engineers would have done it already. They are pretty smart.

However, the techniques in our WOT Box are well known and well utilized, on many vehicles safely. For example, nearly all modern after market ECUs come with some form of WOT shifting, or as is sometimes called, "no lift to shift". What we have done is brought these features to market in a small, inexpensive add-on box for those individuals who may not want to spend thousands of dollars on a full stand-alone.

An even better example of the relative safety of this mod is that some cars are even shipping now with it as a stock feature! For example, the EVO9 has a 2-step launch control and the Chevy Cobalt SS has a 2-step launch control and no lift to shift! So, if Chevy is willing to send their cars out of the factory with it stock, they must be convinced it is a reasonable thing to do.

This is not to be confused with anti-lag, which is a system that actually forces fresh air into the exhaust to cause ignition before the turbo to keep the turbo spooled. While this does an excellent job of keeping the turbo spooled (better than no lift to shift), it causes much more wear and tear on the turbo. Here is more reading on anti-lag:
Anti-Lag System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To play devil's advocate, let's break down the risks involved in using the WOT Box. To start, the WOT Shift feature. I believe it causes very little additional wear and tear on the car, mainly because the amount of time that the ignition is cut is very short. It may be as low as 100 ms, which is only a few rotations of the engine at the RPMs we are shifting at. Plus, the ignition comes back on quickly and evacuates the unburnt fuel from the exhaust. Sometimes there may be a small audible pop as the unburnt fuel ignites in the exhaust. If done enough times back to back, this potentially could heat up a stock cat and cause it to fail, but it would be hard to imagine a situation where you could WOT shift that many times.

On the other hand, the 2-step carries a slightly higher risk of damage to your engine, mainly to the catalytic converter. This time you are forcing less unburnt fuel into the exhaust (because the engine is still firing some of the cylinders), but you are typically doing it for a longer time. The key here is not to use the 2-step for too long and not too often. It is not a toy to make noise in the parking lot. It is meant to be used briefly before a launch at the track and then given the appropriate time after your run to allow the cat to cool. If you were to get on the 2-step and hold it for several minutes, you would probably overheat your cat and destroy it. During the development of the 2-step on the SRT-4, we did actually destroy Jay's catalytic converter. However, that was after HOURS of repeated back-to-back 2-step testing.

In conclusion, when used judiciously, these features should increase performance with minimal additional wear and tear on your engine and catalytic converter. Used inappropriately, they can cause damage. However, this is the case with all mods and drag racing in general.

So, be educated about your decisions and the level of risk you are willing to take with your car.

Ideally, you would use this product without a catalytic converter on the drag strip only. That being said, my personal car has a catalytic converter and has gone through tons of repeated testing of the 2-step and come out OK. Your mileage may vary.

Can the dealer see that this has been installed through an ECU scan?
The dealer won't see the WOT Box through an ECU scan, but they may see the wiring for the box under the hood. They may void your warranty if they find it. We can't be responsible if they do, so install at your own risk.

Can I really use the 2-step launch control in a FWD car? Will there be enough traction?
Yes, you can make use of the 2-step to launch effectively in a FWD car. Jay's shop SRT-4 launches using the WOT Box 2-STEP at 21 PSI! However, you will need slicks to be able to do that. Street tires will be very limited with the 2-step launch, but you can dial down the 2-step launch RPM to make your street tire launches more consistent.

How long is the warranty on the WOT Box?
Our standard warranty is 3 years. More information is available on our website:
NP Complete Performance - Disclaimer

What if I decide to return the WOT Box?
If you decide you do not want the WOT Box, you can return it within thirty (30) days for a full refund. All original packaging must be included and the product must be in like-new condition.


Can this be purchased now or is this a beta test?

The WOT Box has been out for over a year on the SRT-4, and it was in R&D for another year before that on a half a dozen cars. It has been extensively track tested and our results are listed above and in numerous posts on SRT Forums, Youtube and our website at http://www.n2mb.com

We are looking to recruit one or two test cars to help locate the required wires for the install on the 1 series. The requirements are that you are familiar with wiring, have access to ECU pinouts to help you locate wires and know how to hook things up. Being close to Philadelphia would be a big plus because if you have any problems, you can bring the car to my shop and I will debug it for you.

We sell the WOT Box in 3 versions:

WOT Shift ONLY
2-STEP ONLY
WOT Shift AND 2-STEP

If you buy one of the single feature boxes, you can upgrade later if you decide to. Our single feature WOT Boxes normally retail for $159 and the Dual feature WOT Box normally retails for $299. However, to help get the word out, we're going to do a group buy on this forum for the first 40 customers to order. The pricing is listed below.

WOT Box with WOT Shift ONLY - $99
WOT Box with 2-Step ONLY - $99
WOT Box with WOT Shift AND 2-Step - MazdaSpeed3 $189

Shipping will be flat rate at $9.99 for the US, $19.99 for Mexico and Canada, and $24.99 for Australia. All orders are shipped USPS Priority Mail with delivery confirmation. You will receive a tracking number at the email address used during checkout once your order ships. Email sales@n2mb.com to get a shipping quote for other countries.

If I buy a single feature WOT Box now, how can I upgrade later?

If you want to upgrade in the future there will be two options:

1. Pay the extra fee to upgrade. It will be the retail price of the single feature WOT Box ($149), and mail your box in. We will flash it and mail it back to you.

Or

2. Pay the retail price of the dual feature WOT box ($285) and we will advance ship you an extra WOT Box so that you don't have any down time. Once you have returned the single feature WOT Box we will refund the difference ($136).

If I buy a single feature WOT Box, can I try out the other feature?

Yes. Email us at support@n2mb.com and we can send you a special software load that will switch your box from one single feature to the other. If you decide you like it, we can upgrade your WOT Box to a dual feature version using the above instructions.

Can the software be upgraded in the field?

Yes. There is a serial port on the side of the WOT Box. That serial port allows you to upgrade your software as new features are released and the software is improved. We will have software upgrades posted on our site as they come out so that you can keep your WOT Box up to date with the current software.

What do I need to update the software on my WOT Box?

If you have a laptop with a serial port:


Then you don't need anything. Your WOT Box will ship with the serial cable you need.

If you don't have a serial port on your laptop (many newer ones do not), you'll need a USB to Serial converter. You may have one of these already. If it has a prolific chipset, it will likely work with the WOT Box. Other chipsets may or may not work. We've found a few bad USB to Serial boxes that give us a lot of trouble.

I recommend this particular USB-to-Serial because it has the known prolific chipset and it is the same USB-to-Serial adapter that I have done all my development on.
For only $6.49 each when QTY 50+ purchased - USB to Serial Convert Cable(DB9M/USB B female converter and USB A/B cable)[SYB] | USB to Serial/Parallel Converter

Also, it is pretty inexpensive.

Now, if you don't have access to a laptop, we're starting to make wall-plug adapters so that you can power your WOT Box inside your house and load software onto it from your desktop. The same conditions as above apply. If you have a serial port, you won't need anything other than the power cord. If you do not have a serial port, you'll also need a USB-to-Serial adapter. Contact support@n2mb.com to find out how you can order one of these adapters.

Software upgrades will be available on this page:
NP Complete Performance - WOT Box Software


Let me know if you have any more questions!
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      07-07-2008, 08:27 PM   #2
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Welcome! This is very interesting, i would like to see this happen.
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      07-07-2008, 08:30 PM   #3
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Id like to see it before I can gauge my interest
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      07-07-2008, 08:44 PM   #4
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I found out that I can post details, so I updated the first post. I mainly re-used a post from the Mazda Speed forums, so I apologize if there are any mistakes in editing.

The original post is available here if you are interested in seeing how our introduction went over on the Mazdaspeed 3:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...t-wot-box.html

We are also working on the Cobalt SS, although that group buy has not started yet.

Of course, our original market has been the SRT-4.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f245/

You can read more about us there.
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      07-07-2008, 08:47 PM   #5
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Wow.. sounds really interesting.
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      07-07-2008, 08:50 PM   #6
phrozen
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I just saw in your sig that you have an Audi A4... I'm waiting to hear back on test results for the WOT Box on the A4....

So, we need to confirm that the 1 series cars meet the requirements for the product and then we need to identify the wires. Can anyone point me in the direction of some wiring diagrams and / or ECU pinouts?

Also, we would like to find someone willing to install it on their car and take pictures of the installation for the installation instructions. We'll give you the WOT Box for free if you can do this...
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      07-07-2008, 09:46 PM   #7
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It should not be any problem finding someone to try one for free.
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      07-08-2008, 12:37 AM   #8
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Wow this seems like it would be an extremely cool mod. Can u imagine: WOT Box + SSK + CDV delete + SSTT (or tune of your choice) + shift light (BMW Performance steering wheel in my wet dreams). Man that has the potential to shave some serios time off your slip. Though now that I think of it CDV delete should probably be a prerequisite. Wouldnt want full throttle to cut back in while the clutch is there taking its sweet time due to CDV.

Yes man please build. I'd get one and if this thing delivers as promised i'm sure others will too
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      07-08-2008, 12:38 AM   #9
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Definitely interested.

I'm in central nj, send me a PM and we can work out somtime I can head to Philly so you can play with the car.
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      07-08-2008, 07:17 AM   #10
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I wonder why I'm not getting email notifications. Oh well. Does anyone know where wiring diagrams for the car can be found?
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      07-08-2008, 08:08 AM   #11
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BMWTIS.com

Other than that, I don't believe one exists right now.
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      07-08-2008, 06:58 PM   #12
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Interesting. First post is advertising a product. You wouldn't happen to have any iPods or mobile phones?
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      07-08-2008, 09:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dragon View Post
Interesting. First post is advertising a product. You wouldn't happen to have any iPods or mobile phones?
A lot of vendors have done the same thing. Granted it might have been more courteous to make an introduction thread, it's certainly not required.
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      07-08-2008, 10:14 PM   #14
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Hold the ipod and phone comments guys, phrozen is a legitimate vendor.

I personally delt with his company when I had my Neon. Yes, I said Neon. She was an SRT-4 with the Mopar Stage 3 with toys and managed a 12.4x at 116mph, video is on youtube for those that wish to see it.

Mopar Stage 3 for an SRT-4 was offered in a Toys and No Toys version. The difference in cost was near $1000 dollars. The toys version added a 100 octane switch and some boost control features. If you ran 100 octane fuel, hit the switch and the PCM would advance timing for almost 50-60 more hp.

Phrozen created a toy box that would plug into the factory wiring for owners that had a Stage 3 NO-Toys set up. This little box he created allowed you to access all the features of the toys and had additional benefits. I won't waste your time with the details, bottom line is he is a very good vendor and makes some high quality products.


Welcome to the forum Phrozen:headbang:
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      07-09-2008, 09:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL135I View Post
Hold the ipod and phone comments guys, phrozen is a legitimate vendor.

I personally delt with his company when I had my Neon. Yes, I said Neon. She was an SRT-4 with the Mopar Stage 3 with toys and managed a 12.4x at 116mph, video is on youtube for those that wish to see it.

Mopar Stage 3 for an SRT-4 was offered in a Toys and No Toys version. The difference in cost was near $1000 dollars. The toys version added a 100 octane switch and some boost control features. If you ran 100 octane fuel, hit the switch and the PCM would advance timing for almost 50-60 more hp.

Phrozen created a toy box that would plug into the factory wiring for owners that had a Stage 3 NO-Toys set up. This little box he created allowed you to access all the features of the toys and had additional benefits. I won't waste your time with the details, bottom line is he is a very good vendor and makes some high quality products.


Welcome to the forum Phrozen:headbang:
Thanks for the intro!

I apologize for the lack of an introduction. My first post was going to be just the top part of the original post, asking if anyone wanted this product. But, then I found out I could post anything, so I just included all the details so that you guys can know right off the bat what the product does and who we are.

It sounds like people are interested and I have lined up a test car, so when I get it installed on the car, I'll post up the results. Then you guys can decide what you think...

Anyway, it is great to be here. I am always excited about new manual transmission, turbocharged cars for us to work on.

Also, we are a custom electronics company, so let us know if you have particular problems or needs that your series of car could benefit from. We are flexible and can make all sorts of small electronic devices....

Thanks!
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      07-09-2008, 10:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dragon View Post
Interesting. First post is advertising a product. You wouldn't happen to have any iPods or mobile phones?
Yeah, those posts are annoying! I'm a vendor on the Mazdaspeed forums and someone posted an iPhone thread in my forum over there!

We're not reselling anyone else's crap. We're a small automotive electronics company. All of our products are designed by us, sold by us and supported by us. The only part we outsource is the production. That is done by factories in the US with ISO 9001 certification.

I am the electrical engineer of the team, and my partner Jay is the racing expertise.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
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      07-09-2008, 04:54 PM   #17
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Phrozen,

I think you'll have good success here if you can simplify the install. If you can easily install this into the ECU compartment I think this will be the way to go. The ECU compartment has several extra spaces for various boxes......hmmm, like a vishnu V3.

Anything that is plug n play is also highly recommended. I don't think owners will want to have to cut there ecu wires.....warranty issues.
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      07-09-2008, 05:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL135I View Post
Phrozen,

I think you'll have good success here if you can simplify the install. If you can easily install this into the ECU compartment I think this will be the way to go. The ECU compartment has several extra spaces for various boxes......hmmm, like a vishnu V3.

Anything that is plug n play is also highly recommended. I don't think owners will want to have to cut there ecu wires.....warranty issues.
Where is the ECU compartment? The WOT Box isn't waterproof, so it needs to be somewhere protected, like inside the passenger compartment.

Plug and play is probably going to be tough. I don't know how it is with BMW, but it is usually nearly impossible to get all the connectors needed for a plug and play installation.

At the minimum, we need the clutch signal, the accelerator pedal position sensor signal, and a connector for the ignition coil power. Is it possible to buy these connectors anywhere?
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      07-10-2008, 11:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phrozen View Post
Where is the ECU compartment? The WOT Box isn't waterproof, so it needs to be somewhere protected, like inside the passenger compartment.

Plug and play is probably going to be tough. I don't know how it is with BMW, but it is usually nearly impossible to get all the connectors needed for a plug and play installation.

At the minimum, we need the clutch signal, the accelerator pedal position sensor signal, and a connector for the ignition coil power. Is it possible to buy these connectors anywhere?

The ECU compartment is in the engine bay. It is water proof. Here's a good video to give you an idea.


Once you identify which wires you need to tap into, I think it would be very easy to pull the wires from the ECU plugs.. this is what Vishnu tunning did prior to there new plug N play harness. I know the ecu pin plugs are available somewhere, just don't know where.
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      07-11-2008, 07:33 AM   #20
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I guess that would be possible if you could get the individual ECU pins in both male and female versions. Most of the signals we need won't be intercepted, we just need to tap into them and measure them. The ECU will still be under control of them. These are:
Clutch pedal position switch
Accelerator Pedal position sensor
Ignition coil trigger signal (any of them)

The one other wire we need is the positive supply for all of the ignition coils. However, that wire may not be running to the ECU. It is likely it just comes off some relay elsewhere in the car and goes directly to the coils. That wire we cut and run one side to one wire from the WOT Box and the other side to another wire from the WOT Box. It is essentially putting a switch in-line with the coil power that allows the WOT Box to turn off the coils, individually or all at once, depending on when the switch is turned off and how long it is kept off.

The last wire is just ground, and that can go to any available chassis ground point.
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      07-24-2008, 01:08 AM   #21
Smallbodybimmer
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Any progress?
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      07-24-2008, 09:07 AM   #22
phrozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallbodybimmer View Post
Any progress?
I am still planning on a test install, perhaps next Wednesday.

I would like to get into the idea of a plug and play installation, but I don't know where to get the ECU pins. I looked at that piggy-back installation and it looks like the pins can be popped out of the ECU connectors. I just need to know where to get the male and female ECU pins and then we should be able to make up a custom wiring harness for your cars.

Does anyone have any ideas where to find them? Can they be purchased from the dealer?

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