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      05-02-2017, 12:49 AM   #1
TridenTBoy
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Looking for longer life tires - PSS only last 10k

The Michelin PSS just aren't cutting it. I'm on track to burning through these tires within another 4-5k. I have about 5.5k on them. I was thinking of putting matching PSS on the front because I'm still running the stock run flats on the front and the tires simply cannot grip. Doing inside to out measurements on each tire, I have approximately:

Left Rear 255 PSS - 6.2, 5, 4.75, 5.75
Right Rear 255 PSS - 6.5, 6, 5.2, 5.7
Left Front 215 Stock - 4.4, 4.75, 4.75, 3.9
Right Front 215 Stock - 4.75, 5, 4.9, 3.25

I use my little tire tread thing to measure it but it's only so accurate from what I gather.

I don't want to spend $1000-1200 on tires every year. I'm starting a new job next week that'll cut down severely on my miles driven but no way am I replacing these 4 tires with more Michelin Pilot Super Sports. The tread life just isn't there. Are there any other tires out there that I can get that will bank me 20k miles and still be okay? My main concerns are tires that'll be too noisy or lose ride comfort.

I saw the Firestone Indy 500 are around and look to be relatively cheap. (less than $500 for a set of four)

These seem like a good compromise tire if Tirerack is to be believed.

Compare this way:
Ultra High Performance Summer
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=217
Max Performance Summer
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=218

Obviously in the wet, the Michelin PSS pull far away (2s lap time gap) but in the dry it's 0.25s...

Last edited by TridenTBoy; 05-02-2017 at 01:09 AM.
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      05-02-2017, 06:45 AM   #2
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I was all set to put those indys on but my tire guy says customers complain about the noise and they wear out fast. He said PSS was superior in every way. Now he could be trying to sell a more expensive tire but I've been going to him for a while since I have three cars, so I'm in there at least once a year. I have always felt like he gives me a no bs answer.
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      05-02-2017, 08:14 AM   #3
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The 255/35 Firestones appear to be on national backorder currently- I'm trying to find a set of 225 & 255 myself. Tire Rack says minimum of 30 days, but they have no information of when at this point, and two local firestone dealers say 60+ days with no current indication of when. I've also checked with a dozen or so online vendors of unknown reputation and several local dealers not owned by FS and all have the same results- 255's aren't currently available.

265/35's are available, but won't, of course, fit well on a stock wheel. They don't make a 245/35.

225/40's are available.

The FS Indy 500's are rebranded (for U.S. only apparently) Bridgestone Potenza RE003 which is the replacement for the RE760 and a significant improvement. Reviews /everywhere/ have been outstanding and people are consistently amazed by the performance for the price value. Certainly PSS's are better, and considering their cost they should be! But for those that don't really need that level of performance and want to save a penny it's tough to beat the FS's at this point.

I'd own em right now if I could find a pair of 255's! If you find them anywhere buy em on the spot and let me know where!
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Last edited by 1and1; 05-02-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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      05-02-2017, 12:43 PM   #4
asbrr
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I've used Bridgestone RE760s on a couple of cars now, they have a 360 (!!!) treadwear. They are a decent performance tire, but not up there with the max performance tires like MPSS etc.

So expect a drop in grip, but increase in treadlife....that is the compromise..
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      05-02-2017, 02:13 PM   #5
TridenTBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
I've used Bridgestone RE760s on a couple of cars now, they have a 360 (!!!) treadwear. They are a decent performance tire, but not up there with the max performance tires like MPSS etc.

So expect a drop in grip, but increase in treadlife....that is the compromise..
The differences seem to be pretty minimal though when you compare over the test results that Tire Rack has up. Are the PSS really worth the extra $400+ a set? (Who knows if they even have the same tread life) If the Indy 500's have a higher treadlife then it makes it an even harder to buy the PSS. Minimal performance gains for a higher upfront cost and a higher overall cost. If the 500's last 50% longer than the PSS then it's not even a question. I'll be going to the tire shop at least once a year with the PSS and having to fork over close to $1000. Whereas with the 500's I'll be going maybe once every 18 months and spending less than $600. That's pretty good for relatively comparable stats. But, I don't think they'll last that long. 300 aa vs 340 aa really means maybe a 15% tread life improvement.

I love having maximum performance with tires. I'd love to have a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2's on my car at all times but I just can't justify that price. I use every bit of traction that my car has available on some drives but I don't think I'll enjoy the drive any less because my braking distance and cornering force are minimally impacted.

Whereas I will be quite upset that I have to fork over something close to $100/month just on tires...

Last edited by TridenTBoy; 05-02-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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      05-02-2017, 07:01 PM   #6
asbrr
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If you're not so concerned with lap times etc, then yea I agree with you, how much more is it worth it. My main thing is to get decent grip, but also as important is to have decent at-the-limit behaviour. And yea, decent treadwear.

This is my 3rd summer with the RE760s, I have 2 trackdays on the set, the fronts still have 40% left on them, the rears are starting to get down close to 20%. I have a trackday this weekend coming up, and will probably be ready to replace the rears soon.

Total mileage is about 25,000 km on these, so I've already gotten good life so far.
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      05-02-2017, 07:57 PM   #7
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What mods do you have and have you done an alignment? If you're lowered at all, I suggest a proper alignment.
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      05-02-2017, 09:47 PM   #8
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If you get the rear aligned to more neutral than stock you should be able to get your tires to last longer.
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      05-02-2017, 09:53 PM   #9
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Indy 500s (225/40, 255/35) over here. Have less than 5k miles on them, but having had MPSS on my old M3, I personally can't justify the huge difference in cost. Between grip and treadwear, they're a flaming bargain. No rubbing, and that's with Eibach Pro-Kits installed. Highly recommended if you can track a set down.
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      05-02-2017, 10:54 PM   #10
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With the FF Indy 500 on back order locally to me (in 235/40 18 for aftermarket new wheels), I am at a loss what to replace aged 225/255 PSS with. I think I will consider the new Conti.
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Last edited by andrey_gta; 05-02-2017 at 11:09 PM.
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      05-03-2017, 11:22 AM   #11
asbrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
With the FF Indy 500 on back order locally to me (in 235/40 18 for aftermarket new wheels), I am at a loss what to replace aged 225/255 PSS with. I think I will consider the new Conti.
Andrey the new Contis are supposed to be pretty decent also...I'm considering those once my RE760 are done.
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      05-03-2017, 05:47 PM   #12
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I like the Conti DW. Have had them on for near a year (around 5000 miles). Seem to work very well, but I did not run Michelins before. I went from 17" to 18" 235/255. Traction is great, but too early to tell about wear.
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      05-03-2017, 07:00 PM   #13
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The Conti DW's are great, especially in the wet. Loved em, but wow, do they wear quick if you're making them earn their keep... They were great fun to auto-x with in the wet.

I've run two sets of the RE760, and was planning on them for the 135 when it dawned on me they've been around forever and I started searching for what replaced them. That's how I found out about the RE003/Indy 500's. Was gobsmacked at the price, and interestingly enough when I looked for reviews the first forum based user review was on 1addicts

I'd do another set of RE760's, but it kills me to pay almost $200 more than the FS's for an obsolete tire. I'm already committed to the idea that I don't need the extra tenth of performanceto be had with PSS or DW's, but the difference in cost from RE760 range to DW or PSS range isn't all that much if I can't get the FS's, so it becomes a tougher decision considering I get ~double the life from RE760's compared to DW's.

I just don't want any of the korean/chinese tires, tho several have pretty decent reputations. My experience with those trends to semi-decent initially, but loud and hard rubber as they wear. And if I'm totally honest, I may be a bit snobby and just don't want to put Kumo's or whatever on my BMW.... Sad I guess, but there ya go.
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      05-05-2017, 12:02 AM   #14
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Funny, I've had a couple sets of the Conti DW's as well, and I just can't kill them. They've lasted waaaay longer than the stock Bridgestones or the Yokohama S-Drive's I tried next. Will def be going with the Conti Sports next...

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      05-05-2017, 12:54 PM   #15
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I have DWs on my other car too (FWD and a lot less power), they lasted for a really long time. The new contis are supposed to be better in every way, so it might be worth taking a look at them.

The 135i just eats rear tires though I'm lucky to get 15K out of a set even with rotating them. I have used the factory tires, PSS, and I'm currently on dunlop ZIIs.
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      05-05-2017, 01:54 PM   #16
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FWIW, when I commented on my DW's not lasting very long note that they were on 430 hp 400tq to the wheels AWD Speed6 that was built to be, and was, autocrossed and generally driven with attitude- the car was like a happy puppy and it's tires never had an easy life. I was happy to get ~17-18K miles out of em. The RE760's lived the same life and lasted over ~22-24K- still short but several months longer.

Tire wear was even and always a great alignment. The Speed, much like the 1er, really responds well to a proper alignment. I average around 250 miles a week- tank of gas a week.
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      06-02-2017, 08:32 AM   #17
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Where you guys getting your tires? I just bought two sets of Michelin PSS tires and paid $747 a set. Maybe there is a local shop that can order the tires for you at a better price.
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      06-02-2017, 09:14 AM   #18
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That sounds about right for the OEM sizes, and about $100 less for 225/255 setup from what I've seen. That doesn't include installation and disposal fees which typically bring the price closer to $1k.
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      06-02-2017, 01:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
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That sounds about right for the OEM sizes, and about $100 less for 225/255 setup from what I've seen. That doesn't include installation and disposal fees which typically bring the price closer to $1k.
I rarely see much difference between 215/245 and 225/255 prices. I see availability issues as being more common for 215/245. 225 and 255 is MUCH easier to find.

Where do you guys buy your tires? America's Tire/Discount Tire/Discount Tire Direct sometimes has some decent sales but most of the time it's no cheaper than Tire Rack or what not. (And Tire Rack includes a free warranty)

Michelin Pilot Suport Sports are usually $800 for a set from what I've seen. $210-220/piece for the rear. $180/piece for the front. Install brings it up close to $900 to replace. I don't think I'm including shipping there either. Depends on where you order them, I guess.

Seen the Firestones with mail in rebates where it brings them under $500 for a set.
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      10-14-2017, 10:11 PM   #20
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And my tires are at the wear bars. :/ I’ll be putting the Firestone firehawk Indy 500 on the rear within the next month or so.

Fortunately, tire wear is pretty even across the grain. Never swapped the tires. The last set was runflats and they were very unevenly worn. (Threads on inside. Not even close to wear bars on middle/outside) find it funny that the PSS has worn rather evenly from just visual inspection.

I’ll look into getting an alignment this time around.

Going 255 on rear. I went with the indy 500 on the front at 225.

Worked great upfront. Don’t doubt rear will be fine.
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