BRAKE ISSUE WITH 135i CALIPERS - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

scottn2retro · 10-29-2008, 04:07 PM

Hi All -

As you know, we've been racing a 135i in BMW Club Racing stock class. So our modifications are very modest. Some lowering springs, racing brake pads, UUC front sway bar, bigger tires, more negative camber and Dinan Stage 2 software are about the only performance mods that we have.

After the PIR event in early Oct., we were putting the street pads back in for the drive home and noticed the caliper pistons beginning to crumble apart!!!

We have never seen anything like it on any stock brake system from BMW.

Luckily, for the next event, we were able to borrow another pair of OEM calipers from Evolution Raceworks (thanks Fred). So we just raced the car at Sear's Point this past weekend on those calipers and after just one event, they are showing the same signs of starting to break apart!

Our car is basically configured the way an instructor or an A or B level student may configure their car, and this could be a very huge safety concern.

We'll get some pictures posted up as soon as Ralph gets them in his photo gallery.

Does anybody know if the components are any different/better in the BMW Performance Parts brake upgrade kit for the 135i?

onetimer · 10-29-2008, 04:14 PM

I'm taking my car to daytona this weekend. I will keep an eye the calibers and let you know.

ML · 10-29-2008, 05:07 PM

Have you contacted BMW regarding what you have found? Although the braking duty on the track is significantly different than that during normal driving, it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to identify a potential safety issue such as this, especially if it could develop in everyones cars over time.

m3bs · 10-29-2008, 05:11 PM

Got any pictures of this? It's hard to believe the pistons would disintegrate like that.

modbargains · 10-29-2008, 05:42 PM

Hey Scott,

I have a question for you.
What brake fluid are you running?

My guess is Castrol SRF.
Let me know if I'm correct and I'll get you some more information.

WAY · 10-29-2008, 06:43 PM

This is of real concern to me given that my car is primarily used on the track! Will have to keep an eye out. What are the signs btw? **********s, you think it's related to the fluid? I am using Motul RBF600...

ML · 10-29-2008, 07:20 PM

If this is not an issue related to brake fluid selection, maybe a couple of our regular autocrossers would be willing to do an inspection of their brakes.

scottn2retro · 10-29-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********s

Hey Scott,

I have a question for you.
What brake fluid are you running?

My guess is Castrol SRF.
Let me know if I'm correct and I'll get you some more information.

We started the season on Motul 600

scottn2retro · 10-29-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ML

Have you contacted BMW regarding what you have found? Although the braking duty on the track is significantly different than that during normal driving, it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to identify a potential safety issue such as this, especially if it could develop in everyones cars over time.

We took it to the dealer, who showed the regional rep. Because the car is a race car, they basically washed their hands of it.

We are trying to contact Brembo to see what they think of it, but I would imagine that they just built the kits to what BMW specified.

WAY · 10-29-2008, 11:50 PM

I have some bad news. Here is the picture of mine. Seals all melted, piston is cracked. Is this how yours look Scott?

minijet · 10-30-2008, 12:18 AM

[quote=WAY;274872]I have some bad news. Here is the picture of mine. Seals all melted, piston is cracked. Is this how yours look Scott?

ouch WAY. you going to try to get BMW to replace that?
or just upgrade!

benzosnenzos · 10-30-2008, 12:24 AM

maybe switching the pads is the factor.....better pads utilize the bmws ability to a more extreme than the stock?

scottn2retro · 10-30-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAY

I have some bad news. Here is the picture of mine. Seals all melted, piston is cracked. Is this how yours look Scott?

Yep, that bad or worse.

1erich · 10-30-2008, 12:58 AM

I'm officially concerned.

WAY · 10-30-2008, 01:29 AM

I think everybody should be concerned! Just got off the phone with the dealer, and they said they have never heard of the issue. This is a BMW owned dealership, a factory store.

cuizhuoyi01 · 10-30-2008, 01:46 AM

I think that is not a real problem, if you really race it had, go for some aftermarket brake kit.

WAY · 10-30-2008, 01:49 AM

Yeah but the factory brakes are a big Brembo 6 piston kit, you just don't expect Brembos to be like this!

cuizhuoyi01 · 10-30-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAY

Yeah but the factory brakes are a big Brembo 6 piston kit, you just don't expect Brembos to be like this!

TURE. I never had a sigle problem with my evo, that is only 4 piston kit.

maybe the 135i is just not build for track. so we need mod it for track.

takahashi · 10-30-2008, 02:00 AM

As I said on the phone, you have fat legs... haha. J/K.

Hey I wonder if heat is a factor, since the heat generated is higher than what I have seen. Remember what it was? I think it is about 300+ rotor and 180 or so pads, at the side of pit lane after a lap of cool down lap???

cuizhuoyi01 we cannot blame OEM for track abuse. They should be able to withstand heat. EVO brembo and even my RX-8 OEM caliper does it ok on the track, lap after lap.

Hopefully that is isolated. I will give it another go WAY. If it happens again then some aftermarket 6 pot. Or talk to Brembo regarding some better piston...

bluemoon · 10-30-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1erich

I'm officially concerned.

Ditto that!

cuizhuoyi01 · 10-30-2008, 02:14 AM

when you use some aftermaket pad, the caliper and rotor will get more damage.

like me

When I use all stock brake parts(stock calipers,stock rotor, stock pads) on track, the pads are overheat and i can't stop the car. but after a while, they still OK to use.

when I have endless pads which is CCR (150C'-800C') with stock rotor and stock calipers on track. I killed the rotor in first 15 mins.

After I change to APP rotor, I have no problem with brake. maybe I'm not drive that hard.

what I mean is, if use stock pad the rotors and calipers will be fine.

but with high temp pads, you may have some problem of calipers and rotors.

m3bs · 10-30-2008, 03:58 AM

Racing or not, a metal piston shouldn't crack like that. Seals melt due to the temps, rotors crack due to the rapid temperature cycles, but that should not happen.

I'd be interested to get that piston to a metallurgist. My first thought is that a safety recall is in order.

10-29-2008, 04:07 PM	#1
scottn2retro Captain Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 621 iTrader: (0)	BRAKE ISSUE WITH 135i CALIPERS Hi All - As you know, we've been racing a 135i in BMW Club Racing stock class. So our modifications are very modest. Some lowering springs, racing brake pads, UUC front sway bar, bigger tires, more negative camber and Dinan Stage 2 software are about the only performance mods that we have. After the PIR event in early Oct., we were putting the street pads back in for the drive home and noticed the caliper pistons beginning to crumble apart!!! We have never seen anything like it on any stock brake system from BMW. Luckily, for the next event, we were able to borrow another pair of OEM calipers from Evolution Raceworks (thanks Fred). So we just raced the car at Sear's Point this past weekend on those calipers and after just one event, they are showing the same signs of starting to break apart! Our car is basically configured the way an instructor or an A or B level student may configure their car, and this could be a very huge safety concern. We'll get some pictures posted up as soon as Ralph gets them in his photo gallery. Does anybody know if the components are any different/better in the BMW Performance Parts brake upgrade kit for the 135i? __________________ 08 135i - Stock Class BMW Club Racer www.TotalMotorOils.us Photo Gallery
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10-30-2008, 02:00 AM	#19
takahashi Retired trackie Drives: 1///M Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,528 iTrader: (0)	As I said on the phone, you have fat legs... haha. J/K. Hey I wonder if heat is a factor, since the heat generated is higher than what I have seen. Remember what it was? I think it is about 300+ rotor and 180 or so pads, at the side of pit lane after a lap of cool down lap??? cuizhuoyi01 we cannot blame OEM for track abuse. They should be able to withstand heat. EVO brembo and even my RX-8 OEM caliper does it ok on the track, lap after lap. Hopefully that is isolated. I will give it another go WAY. If it happens again then some aftermarket 6 pot. Or talk to Brembo regarding some better piston... __________________ TAKA 一仔BLOGブログ: BMW 1 series M 2011! Delivered 18/11/11.

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10-29-2008, 04:14 PM	#2
onetimer Enlisted Member Drives: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 40 iTrader: (0)	I'm taking my car to daytona this weekend. I will keep an eye the calibers and let you know.

10-29-2008, 05:07 PM	#3
ML Change for a Nickle? Drives: 2006 M3, Mazda truck Join Date: May 2008 Location: Westfield, MA Posts: 875 iTrader: (1)	Have you contacted BMW regarding what you have found? Although the braking duty on the track is significantly different than that during normal driving, it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to identify a potential safety issue such as this, especially if it could develop in everyones cars over time.

10-29-2008, 05:11 PM	#4
m3bs Lieutenant Drives: '11 M3 ZCP, 95 M3 Track Toy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Augusta, SC Posts: 540 iTrader: (1)	Got any pictures of this? It's hard to believe the pistons would disintegrate like that.

10-29-2008, 05:42 PM	#5
modbargains Brigadier General Drives: 08 E90 335i & 01 Toyota Avalon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: La Habra, CA Posts: 3,165 iTrader: (5)	Hey Scott, I have a question for you. What brake fluid are you running? My guess is Castrol SRF. Let me know if I'm correct and I'll get you some more information.

10-29-2008, 06:43 PM	#6
WAY Brigadier General Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,798 iTrader: (0)	This is of real concern to me given that my car is primarily used on the track! Will have to keep an eye out. What are the signs btw? **********s, you think it's related to the fluid? I am using Motul RBF600...

10-29-2008, 07:20 PM	#7
ML Change for a Nickle? Drives: 2006 M3, Mazda truck Join Date: May 2008 Location: Westfield, MA Posts: 875 iTrader: (1)	If this is not an issue related to brake fluid selection, maybe a couple of our regular autocrossers would be willing to do an inspection of their brakes.

10-29-2008, 11:50 PM	#10
WAY Brigadier General Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,798 iTrader: (0)	I have some bad news. Here is the picture of mine. Seals all melted, piston is cracked. Is this how yours look Scott?

10-30-2008, 12:18 AM	#11
minijet First Lieutenant Drives: F30 328i in Tanzanite! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: here Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	[quote=WAY;274872]I have some bad news. Here is the picture of mine. Seals all melted, piston is cracked. Is this how yours look Scott? ouch WAY. you going to try to get BMW to replace that? or just upgrade!

10-30-2008, 12:24 AM	#12
benzosnenzos Enlisted Member Drives: 135i ca$$hmere Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: phoenix (thezone) Posts: 32 iTrader: (0)	maybe switching the pads is the factor.....better pads utilize the bmws ability to a more extreme than the stock?

10-30-2008, 12:58 AM	#14
1erich Second Lieutenant Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 245 iTrader: (0)	I'm officially concerned.

10-30-2008, 01:29 AM	#15
WAY Brigadier General Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,798 iTrader: (0)	I think everybody should be concerned! Just got off the phone with the dealer, and they said they have never heard of the issue. This is a BMW owned dealership, a factory store.

10-30-2008, 01:46 AM	#16
cuizhuoyi01 EVO Drives: Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 193 iTrader: (0)	I think that is not a real problem, if you really race it had, go for some aftermarket brake kit.

10-30-2008, 01:49 AM	#17
WAY Brigadier General Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,798 iTrader: (0)	Yeah but the factory brakes are a big Brembo 6 piston kit, you just don't expect Brembos to be like this!

10-30-2008, 02:14 AM	#21
cuizhuoyi01 EVO Drives: Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 193 iTrader: (0)	when you use some aftermaket pad, the caliper and rotor will get more damage. like me When I use all stock brake parts(stock calipers,stock rotor, stock pads) on track, the pads are overheat and i can't stop the car. but after a while, they still OK to use. when I have endless pads which is CCR (150C'-800C') with stock rotor and stock calipers on track. I killed the rotor in first 15 mins. After I change to APP rotor, I have no problem with brake. maybe I'm not drive that hard. what I mean is, if use stock pad the rotors and calipers will be fine. but with high temp pads, you may have some problem of calipers and rotors.

10-30-2008, 03:58 AM	#22
m3bs Lieutenant Drives: '11 M3 ZCP, 95 M3 Track Toy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Augusta, SC Posts: 540 iTrader: (1)	Racing or not, a metal piston shouldn't crack like that. Seals melt due to the temps, rotors crack due to the rapid temperature cycles, but that should not happen. I'd be interested to get that piston to a metallurgist. My first thought is that a safety recall is in order.