BRAKE ISSUE WITH 135i CALIPERS

[niuzai]

Originally Posted by scottn2retro

Yep, that bad or worse.

ok. i'm actually thinking of getting a set of 135i oem brake for my 130i 3dr.
i'm really need to think seriously over it now....
sad

[Carbonic]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

Did you see any problems when you inspected the calipers?

No, ceramic inserts were fine, but pads were worn to a wedge and backing plates were toast.

[Alec693]

Originally Posted by adood84

I'm glad that now we know that BMW didn't cut any corners with these brakes, and that all 135i owners can comfortably enjoy their cars without having to worry about the brakes . I think these findings should be reflected in the title of the thread and first post , because somebody considering this car might read the first couple of posts and think these brakes are crap....etc

Like myself lol, just stopping by around here before I get my 135i in a couple of months. I totally freaked out reading this thread but from the conclusion I found, it's nothing wrong with the factory brakes that come with the car.

Now all I have to worry about is the apparent "pogo" hopping of the 135i suspension.

[scottn2retro]

Originally Posted by BerkTechnology

We built ducting on our MR2 which helped with the fade. Scott, did the ducting solve your brake fade? And do you have some more pictures of how they did it?

Cooling helped a multitude of sins. We should have done it right from the beginning, but just got so busy with the car last year doing everything else.

I don't have any other pictures at this time.

[BerkTechnology]

If you ever get the chance, snap a few pics. Gotta get some changes made to our car before the Redline Time Attack Round 2!

Back on topic gentlemen.....

[Olivier_TFE]

I just read all this topic...

I think that the problem increased by the BMW special system anti-fading. With this system, we don't know when the temperature is comming very hight, because it's trying to compense fading. When fading is visible, it's too late.

[old bmw]

I read through most of the thread, but didn't see an answer. Has anybody been able to find replacement pistons for the 135 calipers?
I have a pair of front calipers with cracked pistons and melted boots. (These were run with stock pads too.)

[scottn2retro]

Originally Posted by old bmw

I read through most of the thread, but didn't see an answer. Has anybody been able to find replacement pistons for the 135 calipers?
I have a pair of front calipers with cracked pistons and melted boots. (These were run with stock pads too.)

Contact your local StopTech dealer - they should be able to help you out.

Brembo (even though they are the company sourced for the brakes) pretty much washes their hands of the situation.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by old bmw

I read through most of the thread, but didn't see an answer. Has anybody been able to find replacement pistons for the 135 calipers?
I have a pair of front calipers with cracked pistons and melted boots. (These were run with stock pads too.)

It's interesting that you have cracked pistons with stock pads. So it's not just those of us who are using this as a track car on track pads. Did you contact your dealer? What did they say if you did? Btw, let me know if you do find a set of the "caps". I could do with them too so that I have a set of brakes I can sell.

[white911]

Originally Posted by scottn2retro

Cooling helped a multitude of sins. We should have done it right from the beginning, but just got so busy with the car last year doing everything else.

I don't have any other pictures at this time.

I was curious about this temperature issue. This is why I have run the Thermax temperature indicator strips on the calipers. I have run the Ate Blue/Gold in all our cars used on the track and only the 911 has additional cooling. The temp strips indicate the caliper temp at 466 with no fluid fade on the 911, yet on the BMW the strips are less then 400 with fluid (or pad) fade. Same Ate Fluid, 911 has HT14s.

The Hawk HT10s on the BMW seem to be incorrectly sized as they clank when changing directions - ie, from forward to reverse. These were not resized, these were Hawk packaged HT10s. (the hawk ceramics for the 135 clanked as well.)

My main concern is that the rotors are undersized in terms of thickness and don't provide adequate heat sink. Unfortunately the throat of the caliper is sized for the pathetically thin rotor.

Once I figure out how to post a picture, I will post one showing one of the strips.



You can see from the picture why I don't like drilled rotors which are the only thing available without an expensive conversion package for 996 Twin Turbo.

[Ruffan]

the clanking is caused by the lack of BMW backing plates which locate the pads in the caliper. The HP and the Carbotech pads are basically the same size as the stock pads so unless you use the stock backing plates they will move a bit forward and back (up and down really).

Has anyone found a reliable way to keep the brakes cool other than Berk's make-shift cooling arrangement?

[Xyloft]

reading this thread made me remember an STI thread I used to watch. Basicaly the brembo's piston seals disentigrated when racing. i guess "brembo" factory units aren't really the same as true racing brake kits. kind of sad IMO.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-braki...acked-car.html

[white911]

Originally Posted by Xyloft

reading this thread made me remember an STI thread I used to watch. Basicaly the brembo's piston seals disentigrated when racing. i guess "brembo" factory units aren't really the same as true racing brake kits. kind of sad IMO.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-braki...acked-car.html

The brake on my Porsche is a Porsche factory Brembo; like our 135I are BMW factory Brembos. The seals would go as a result of temperature. The previous set of brakes I ran on the 911 required a caliper rebuild every other event for seal failure. Nothing wrong with Brembo seals that correctly sized and matched brake components or cooling will accomodate. When you put a 25mm thick rotor on the front of a 3400 pound car where is the heat sink?

[tylerh269]

This is making me want to trade my 135 for something else one thing after another, they dont make bmw's like they used to, damn you recession.

[vitig]

Originally Posted by Ruffan

the clanking is caused by the lack of BMW backing plates which locate the pads in the caliper. The HP and the Carbotech pads are basically the same size as the stock pads so unless you use the stock backing plates they will move a bit forward and back (up and down really).

Has anyone found a reliable way to keep the brakes cool other than Berk's make-shift cooling arrangement?

do you know if whit hp pads is necessary the backing plates for don´t be movement?

[scottn2retro]

Originally Posted by Ruffan

Has anyone found a reliable way to keep the brakes cool other than Berk's make-shift cooling arrangement?

We had cooling ducts installed (using 2" hose) on our 135i. It helps, but that is still a lot of Kinetic Energy getting generated with the speed of the car combined with the weight.

We're also going to try Titanium backing shims from Ti Speed:
http://www.tispeed.com/

135 Front shims:
http://tispeed.com/index.php?main_pa...products_id=92

[bradford]

Stock calipers & rotors + Hawk DTC 70 pads = cracked pistons and brown calipers.

I hadn't installed the titanium backing plates I bought yet so I can't say for sure whether that would have helped or not.

[Olivier_TFE]

I use "Project Mu" (Japan, Carbon) pads (HC+ = road/track) (Ref Front: Z328 / Rear: Z425) in road and track.

=> No problem and good braking!

[bradford]

Dealer replaced pads, rotors, and calipers today under warranty. Going to replace the stock brakes with Stoptechs in about a week anyway. Don't want a repeat performance of the brown-brake-crumblies.

Just to reiterate: the calipers were destroyed after only 3 days of HPDE use.

[BiscottiGelato]

3 days of HPDE and calipers destroyed? In what way? Cracked pistons?

So what is the final conclusion of this? What I want to know is

- Does the piston only cracked because of an incompatible pad with a custom backing plate? Aftermarket pads made specifically for the 135i brakes should be okay then, right?

- Does the seals still melt away under high heat usage? What is the implication of a melted seal?

- So, in summary, does the 135i brakes stand up to track usage as good as other OEM brakes from similarly priced vehicles out there? (Evo X/STi or even Caymans/M3s)?

Originally Posted by bradford

Dealer replaced pads, rotors, and calipers today under warranty. Going to replace the stock brakes with Stoptechs in about a week anyway. Don't want a repeat performance of the brown-brake-crumblies.

Just to reiterate: the calipers were destroyed after only 3 days of HPDE use.

[scottn2retro]

Originally Posted by BiscottiGelato

- Does the piston only cracked because of an incompatible pad with a custom backing plate? Aftermarket pads made specifically for the 135i brakes should be okay then, right?

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I believe someone reported cracked piston tops with OEM brake pads.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by BiscottiGelato

3 days of HPDE and calipers destroyed? In what way? Cracked pistons?

So what is the final conclusion of this? What I want to know is

1 - Does the piston only cracked because of an incompatible pad with a custom backing plate? Aftermarket pads made specifically for the 135i brakes should be okay then, right?

2 - Does the seals still melt away under high heat usage? What is the implication of a melted seal?

3 - So, in summary, does the 135i brakes stand up to track usage as good as other OEM brakes from similarly priced vehicles out there? (Evo X/STi or even Caymans/M3s)?

1. No, my pads were Hawk DTC-70s designed specifically for the OEM calipers. The ceramic inserts and dust seals were crumbling, the whole calipers turned brown, and then enamel was flaking off.

2. Yes, my rubber dust seals were cooked. This is pretty much the case for all dust boots I've ever had though. There's a reason race brakes don't have them.

3. I cannot comment on Evo or STi brakes but they seem to not hold up as well as Porsche Brembos, based on my experience. If you want to use the OEM brakes on a track, definitely get the Titanium plates and plumb some cooling ducts if possible, or prepare to back off in the braking zones.