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      01-04-2009, 11:03 AM   #1
oneintheory
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Sleeper Mods

I have an 08 135 vert that I'm looking to mod up. I've debadged it, and I'm following the crowd with some VMR CSL Reps....aside from other external visual mods, I'm looking to juice up the performance a little. My utmost concern is warranty disturbance. My plans include a JB2 and an intake. I love the sound of the BMS Dual Cone, as well as the current price, but I'm open to any suggestions. I'm concerned about the possibility of raised oil temp during daily driving, but that's perhaps only a small issue.

Here's my big question: I know that a piggyback or reflash of any kind voids the powertrain warranty (if discovered), but I'm not concerned about that as the JB is invisible and extremely easy to install and uninstall for services. How does BMWNA feel about aftermarket intakes? What would the potential warranty interaction be on one? If there's any chance at all that there would be negative warranty interaction, I'll probably avoid one.
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      01-04-2009, 11:21 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneintheory View Post
I have an 08 135 vert that I'm looking to mod up. I've debadged it, and I'm following the crowd with some VMR CSL Reps....aside from other external visual mods, I'm looking to juice up the performance a little. My utmost concern is warranty disturbance. My plans include a JB2 and an intake. I love the sound of the BMS Dual Cone, as well as the current price, but I'm open to any suggestions. I'm concerned about the possibility of raised oil temp during daily driving, but that's perhaps only a small issue.

Here's my big question: I know that a piggyback or reflash of any kind voids the powertrain warranty (if discovered), but I'm not concerned about that as the JB is invisible and extremely easy to install and uninstall for services. How does BMWNA feel about aftermarket intakes? What would the potential warranty interaction be on one? If there's any chance at all that there would be negative warranty interaction, I'll probably avoid one.
The answer is - it depends. It depends on the relationship you have with your Service Manager. It depends on what would have failed on the car and what repairs might have to be done under warranty. Would an air intake mod affect the clutch warranty? What about a wheel bearing? Same for catless downpipes.

Anything that increases horsepower or torque is bound to affect the warranty of any engine/turbo/drivetrain related issue. Is this a popular answer on this forum? No - but it is one you have to consider.

Don't be surpised if the BMW Computer can't detect a piggyback unit already. It records any number of engine operating variables, things like fuel consumption, revs, and speed can all be compared to factory - if the averages don't seem to match, then they can assume a piggyback of some kind has been installed.
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      01-04-2009, 11:29 AM   #3
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IMO the dealership will likely suspect other mods upon opening your hood and seeing an intake but you could probably get away with it. To be extra safe you might just want a better filter for the OEM air box. Helene Performance makes one and there may be a few others. As far as a tune, I would just spring for the plug n play jb3. it installs and uninstalls even faster than the jb2 and you get more power and more map options. My dealership says they have no problems with cat back exhausts but they get suspicious when they see cats removed. Take it all with a grain of salt and good luck! I had to kiss my warranty goodbye a long time ago.
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      01-04-2009, 01:09 PM   #4
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.....I concur that it depends on the relationship you have with your Service Manager. I actually asked my guy when I went in for service "Do you or BMW have any problems with me adding an intake?".....his reply..."No problem"
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      01-04-2009, 04:35 PM   #5
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thanks. I've got a pretty good relationship with my SA, and I can't imagine that he'll have a problem with an intake. I fight a mental battle every day over whether or not I should install a piggyback. It's already a fast car, and my right foot probably doesn't need any more power. I guess I'd do it in a heartbeat if there were no danger of voiding my warranty, but in the long run, the warranty is a bit more important than 40 extra rwhp solely for bragging rights.
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      01-05-2009, 01:10 AM   #6
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The extra 40rwhp is more than bragging rights, its the FEEL, now that i have the extra power i can't go back to the original 300hp. The way the car pulls now is a really nice feel, you feel the G's.
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      01-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #7
oneintheory
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I know that the car will feel and drive a ton better, but I just don't need it. I already have enough trouble resisting the urge to violate every speed limit known to Americans every time I get in the car...but the fact that third gear will take you well beyond any of those limits just proves the fact that it's unnecessary to add a significant amount more power unless you're a torque whore or a track fiend. I'm neither, I'd just like a little bump.

Having done a bit more research, I've ruled out the idea of the BMS intake due to the potential for higher heat intake, and have decided on the aFe dual filter intake, since it has a heat shield. The results it shows on a dyno are impressive, as well. My SA has no problem with that.

I think I'll just content myself to my one being a looker. I mean, it's already an incredible car stock, and beating the pants and shirts off of all the ricers running around here puts a smile on my face every day.
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      01-05-2009, 11:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneintheory View Post
IHaving done a bit more research, I've ruled out the idea of the BMS intake due to the potential for higher heat intake, and have decided on the aFe dual filter intake, since it has a heat shield. The results it shows on a dyno are impressive, as well. My SA has no problem with that.

.

You might want to look into some independent dyno results for that AFE intake. There were several posted on E90 post that actually showed a loss of power.

I haven't kept up with it, and I don't know if that was the final word or not, I'm just suggesting that a little more homework might be in order. The manufacturers claims were just too good to be true IMO.
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      01-05-2009, 11:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You might want to look into some independent dyno results for that AFE intake. There were several posted on E90 post that actually showed a loss of power.

I haven't kept up with it, and I don't know if that was the final word or not, I'm just suggesting that a little more homework might be in order. The manufacturers claims were just too good to be true IMO.
thanks.
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      01-05-2009, 11:56 AM   #10
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If I were you, I would pass on the intake mod and used the $aving toward buying a JB3, then Helene panel filter and cat-back exhaust (like CPE); and lastly KW V2 coil over (if you ain't broke yet). Most dealer should have no truble with the above mods except JB3 and which you can removed before any major warranty repair (like turbo failure).
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      01-05-2009, 12:31 PM   #11
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I'm going to try my best to do as little as possible to this car.

It's such a nice car the way it comes brand new.

Remember... Less is more!
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      01-05-2009, 12:34 PM   #12
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i have an E90 325i, and i have taken my car in with an intake and exhaust. the dealer actually complimented how nice the combination sounds when the engine is running. i didn't have any warranty problems. but don't take my word on that, because every dealership is different.
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      01-05-2009, 12:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My135 View Post
If I were you, I would pass on the intake mod and used the $aving toward buying a JB3, then Helene panel filter and cat-back exhaust (like CPE); and lastly KW V2 coil over (if you ain't broke yet). Most dealer should have no truble with the above mods except JB3 and which you can removed before any major warranty repair (like turbo failure).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester
Don't be surpised if the BMW Computer can't detect a piggyback unit already. It records any number of engine operating variables, things like fuel consumption, revs, and speed can all be compared to factory - if the averages don't seem to match, then they can assume a piggyback of some kind has been installed.

It's all so complex, you know? I'd just like to boost performance a little bit. As previously stated, I'm not after JB3 type numbers, and I'd really like to continue to have BMWNA pay for my services and repairs.

The Helene panel filters look interesting, and I'm certainly open to the idea of a drop-in, but I like the way a cold-air enhances the sound of the turbos. What I'm afraid of, specifically with the BMS, is heat soak and power loss. I'm looking into power loss on the AFE, but heat soak shouldn't be an issue. I am not, repeat, am NOT modding out this car as much as most of the fiends around here do, which means that there will certainly be no suspension swaps. I'm also not going to spring for the CPE exhaust.

EDIT: Okay, so i read fast, and the general consensus around here among the knowledgeable seems to be that full intake kits are generally wasteful, and that the money is, indeed better spent on a JB3, so it looks like I'll do that.
I feel like such a hypocrite...on one hand, reason tells me that more power is completely unnecessary, but on the other, the sheer fun of 80 more rwtq is exhilarating.
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      01-05-2009, 01:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed View Post
i have an E90 325i, and i have taken my car in with an intake and exhaust. the dealer actually complimented how nice the combination sounds when the engine is running. i didn't have any warranty problems. but don't take my word on that, because every dealership is different.

The dealers and BMW seem to be taking a stronger stance on these turbo engines, because of how easy they are to mod. I don't think I would apply previous experiences directly to this situation.
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      01-05-2009, 02:20 PM   #15
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The BMS intake will take in significantly more air, so the volume of air will increase power despite the marginal increase in air temps. Works just like your nose, take in a huge breath of air on a 85 deg. day is still better than breathing in cold air thru a straw.
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      01-05-2009, 02:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneintheory View Post

Here's my big question: I know that a piggyback or reflash of any kind voids the powertrain warranty (if discovered), but I'm not concerned about that as the JB is invisible and extremely easy to install and uninstall for services. How does BMWNA feel about aftermarket intakes? What would the potential warranty interaction be on one? If there's any chance at all that there would be negative warranty interaction, I'll probably avoid one.
JB3 has already been discovered by BMW dealers on other user's vehicles and they were denied warrenty work. It threw some kind of code.
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      01-05-2009, 04:22 PM   #17
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The BMS intake will take in significantly more air, so the volume of air will increase power despite the marginal increase in air temps. Works just like your nose, take in a huge breath of air on a 85 deg. day is still better than breathing in cold air thru a straw.

The factory intake can hardly be compared to a straw. A bigger nose won't do you any good when the one you have is already large enough to fill your lungs.

I have yet to see any proof of gains for any of the aftermarket intakes on stock or near stock vehicles. Once you've got a tune on the car that might change, but I still don't see the factory airbox being much of a restriction.
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      01-06-2009, 01:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
The factory intake can hardly be compared to a straw. A bigger nose won't do you any good when the one you have is already large enough to fill your lungs.

I have yet to see any proof of gains for any of the aftermarket intakes on stock or near stock vehicles. Once you've got a tune on the car that might change, but I still don't see the factory airbox being much of a restriction.
actually all these "intakes" currently being sold are only part of the plumbing. so in essence only the tip of the nose is being replaced. once someone finally reroutes the tubing from around the engine and the piping is 3" all the way up to the turbo you will notice a difference. of course what good is getting more air into the car if your exhaust cant get it out quick enough? its all cumulative.
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      01-06-2009, 01:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan View Post
JB3 has already been discovered by BMW dealers on other user's vehicles and they were denied warrenty work. It threw some kind of code.
I've only read about one instance where that happened, and the owner also had catless DP's installed. Was there another instance where somebody had a JB3 (and nothing else) who was denied a warranty claim?
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      01-06-2009, 01:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My135 View Post
Most dealer should have no truble with the above mods except JB3 and which you can removed before any major warranty repair (like turbo failure).
I'd be more concerned that warranty work would be denied on something unrelated to the JB3. For example, fuel pump failures are rampant on these engines, and you don't want BMW denying warranty service for a part that's defective, just because you had mods installed.

Now, a turbo failing when you have a piggy back installed, that's going to be a tough sell-- you can bet the dealer will be looking for the slightest hint of tampering with the ECU.
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      01-06-2009, 02:19 PM   #21
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Just take it off before you go to the dealer. If you break down on the road have the car towed to your home first to uninstall.
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      01-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
The factory intake can hardly be compared to a straw. A bigger nose won't do you any good when the one you have is already large enough to fill your lungs.

"I have yet to see any proof of gains for any of the aftermarket intakes on stock or near stock vehicles. Once you've got a tune on the car that might change, but I still don't see the factory airbox being much of a restriction."
Why all the pessimism . . . . . http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...light=bms+dyno


Additionally, in regards to power loss from heat. The slight (and I use that relatively) increase in intake temp is over compensated by the increase in volume. It comes down to how dense the oxygen is. Both colder and more volume increase the density. However, since the turbos heat the air "slightly" (ha) warmer than the original intake temp, it is a moot point since it is the point of the IC to cool the air back down. Thus the air ends up not being that much warmer and is over compensated by the increase in volume.
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