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      01-20-2009, 03:42 PM   #23
MadMan77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JME View Post
Furthermore, I am annoyed to see a "shut up or get out" response to what was a very valid remark in that thread. If a company is concerned of negative comments impacting sales, either don't carry a product at such an absurd price or provide valid reasoning for why the price is not absurd (which is what he tried to do.)

By asking you to take negative comments elsewhere, he sounds like he is unable to defend his product against the accusations presented. I have (and still have) great respect for that vendor, which makes me even more sad to see that comment.
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+++100000000 I am shocked to see the poor response from such vendor
This is exactly why made this thread and I noted it in m OP here.
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      01-20-2009, 06:01 PM   #24
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lol this is funny...for one i will bash borla because the THEY ARE NOT the best in the exhaust industry..i will email my guy nigel from blueflame and see if they will make us some kickass exhaust systems...they have the best fit and finish ive ever seen...i paid right around 630 shipped for my 2.75in catback for my audi tt...when borla wanted 1000 for a 2.5in catback...which was no where near the quality of the blueflame(forge) i switched many borla users over to blueflame and they loved the exhaust note much better and due to the .25in increase saw better gains than the borla
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      01-20-2009, 07:29 PM   #25
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All this about Borla but dead silence when Hartage products are advertised!?

I think HP handled it just fine in the other thread, they basically said 'we don't set the prices, sorry.' What's wrong with that? I think BMW charges too much for their exhaust too, no way am I going to fault Dan@United for it. HP went to the trouble of determining and posting which M3 parts bolt onto a 1, they get props for that in my book.

Prices will go down in time, this is still a new market. (Not every 1 owner is a 1addict!). Bring on the titanium, I say!
:roundel:
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      01-20-2009, 07:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
And the sad part is, $900 for a high volume piece like the Mustang is probably about 20% higher than what other companies are selling stainless exhaust systems at for the same application.

There's no doubt that Borla is a quality product, but these prices are just absurd, with no legit reasoning behind them other than BMW owners aren't smart enough to realize it.
Actually, depending on the grade of stainless steel, 900 bucks sounds about fair. If the price were any less I would suspect them of using a lower quality stainless. Just the materials for a mustang exhaust would be significant.

I actually got my ass handed to me on a similar thread where I accused a vendor of price gouging, then when I researched the actual price of the materials he was using I was absolutely stunned at the cost. However, assuming the materials are the same for both the 900 dollar exhaust and the 1700 dollar exhaust, there is no excuse for the price difference.

My assumption is that price will eventually fall into a supply/demand situation. It won't be an outlier for very much longer.
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      01-20-2009, 07:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esses View Post
All this about Borla but dead silence when Hartage products are advertised!?

I think HP handled it just fine in the other thread, they basically said 'we don't set the prices, sorry.' What's wrong with that? I think BMW charges too much for their exhaust too, no way am I going to fault Dan@United for it. HP went to the trouble of determining and posting which M3 parts bolt onto a 1, they get props for that in my book.

Prices will go down in time, this is still a new market. (Not every 1 owner is a 1addict!). Bring on the titanium, I say!
:roundel:
I don't understand how they handled it well? I specifically said that I was not pointing my opinions towards them, but rather Borla. I wrote that and they tell me to shove off and go somewhere else while others were openly mocking them. Bad business there.
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      01-20-2009, 07:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
I don't understand how they handled it well? I specifically said that I was not pointing my opinions towards them, but rather Borla. I wrote that and they tell me to shove off and go somewhere else while others were openly mocking them. Bad business there.
I have to agree with esses here. I don't feel that HP did anything wrong. When I first read this thread I assumed that they had posted a pretty harsh comment, but after reading their comment I didn't feel that was the case. It was a very composed comment that simply asked you to that the discussion outside of the commercial thread, which seems perfectly fair to me. Now I could be wrong, but I also don't think that they meant to necessarily single you out, you just happened to be the last person with that type of comment.

Anyway, I feel that this is a very worth while thread, so please continue on.
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      01-20-2009, 08:51 PM   #29
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So are you saying that you are not an authorized Borla distributor or dealer? If so, how does that affect the warranty since most companies do not deem their warranties valid unless purchased from authorized dealers?
We are a Borla Distributor, but since this is not a commercial thread, I can not offer for sale of the products we carry or promote any sales.
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      01-20-2009, 09:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
We are a Borla Distributor, but since this is not a commercial thread, I can not offer for sale of the products we carry or promote any sales.
Ahhh... so why have you stuck with the MSRP in your commercial thread?
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      01-20-2009, 09:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerlucas View Post
I have to agree with esses here. I don't feel that HP did anything wrong. When I first read this thread I assumed that they had posted a pretty harsh comment, but after reading their comment I didn't feel that was the case. It was a very composed comment that simply asked you to that the discussion outside of the commercial thread, which seems perfectly fair to me..

It looked a little harsh to me personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Companies like Borla must make sure their exhaust systems are QS9000 and TS16949 certified. On top of that, they back it up with a million mile warranty.

Have other 135i system manufacture out there to through the same certifications and offer the same warranty, then their price will be in-line with Borla I am sure.

We are here to offer information and a great product to the community. If you don't have anything good to say, please keep it to yourself or start another thread.
Those certifications are a complete joke for an aftermarket exhaust system. They bring NOTHING to the table for the end user. They're nothing more than a feather in the cap of the company. Why must Borla meet these certifications to produce a quality product? They're completely voluntary, and represent nothing more than 3rd party verification of the procedures involved in the manufacturing process. As far as I'm concerned, if a manufacturer needs a 3rd party to tell them how to make their product, they're poorly managed (and I've been involved in over a dozen "certifications" of this type...they're all useless BS)

As for the warranty, sure that's a great offer, but a stainless steel exhaust system should never fail. It's not like you buy this product expecting to have a warranty claim. :iono:

The price is off the chart. It's twice what it should be. I'd consider anyone who buys one of these systems at this price a fool, or at least ignorant.
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      01-20-2009, 10:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
Ahhh... so why have you stuck with the MSRP in your commercial thread?
It's a policy set by not only Borla, but many manufactures alike. MSRP is often Minimum Advertised Price, some manufacture's MAP is lower than its MSRP.

When a price is advertised/published, it must follow their MSRP or MAP. Privately, a lower price is usually quoted. That is why in the commercial thread, you will often see the term, "Please PM for best pricing" or alike.
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      01-21-2009, 07:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
$1775 is simply a retail price set by Borla. You will likely find thie exhaust system for far less with Borla distributors and dealers. Give them a call and see what they can do for you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
It's a policy set by not only Borla, but many manufactures alike. MSRP is often Minimum Advertised Price, some manufacture's MAP is lower than its MSRP.

When a price is advertised/published, it must follow their MSRP or MAP. Privately, a lower price is usually quoted. That is why in the commercial thread, you will often see the term, "Please PM for best pricing" or alike.
So if I give you a call, which you stated earlier in this thread and I quoted above, you will cut us a price below what Borla has set as a price according to policy? Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?
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      01-21-2009, 10:41 AM   #34
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Please give HP a break. They are trying to promote their products just like other vendors on this board, and there is nothing wrong. It is up to us to believe or not. So, stay cool and move on. Thanks.
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      01-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #35
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I agree with Dangerlucas, if you don't like Borla's MSRP, then take it up with borla. HP is just listing the price they are told to. It is true that many vendors can offer a lower price via PM... I know this is the case with many products besides exhaust.

Also, about the comment on the Hartge products and how no one raises a stink... the reason (partially) that Hartge is so expensive is that they have been tuning BMW's for many years, it is their specialty. Along with that, it is also an imported product and they have already established their name and quality in the BMW market. Now, is the markup fair? No, but people still buy it knowing that they're getting some of the best stuff.

Borla on the other hand... tons of reviews for great quality on american cars, and they started dipping into imports like subies and MINI, but have yet to establish their name as one of the top... so with that said, and knowing the "average" price of a catback exhaust, it does seem that their high sticker price is over zealous on their part.
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      01-21-2009, 03:09 PM   #36
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I agree with Dangerlucas, if you don't like Borla's MSRP, then take it up with borla. .

Or, just don't buy one. If I'm a vendor I'd just as soon know if a majority of my customer base thinks the pricing is too high on a product so I can pass that along to the manufacturer. Trying to justify the high price on something like an exhaust system just isn't going to go over well with a lot of people, especially people who have been modding vehicles for decades and know that one quality exhaust system isn't really going to be significantly better than the next (given comparable materials) in most cases. :w00t:
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      01-21-2009, 03:50 PM   #37
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I agree with Dangerlucas, if you don't like Borla's MSRP, then take it up with borla. HP is just listing the price they are told to. It is true that many vendors can offer a lower price via PM... I know this is the case with many products besides exhaust.
Don't mean to start an argument but Madd Man specifically directed his comment towards Borla. In any case, thats how the food chain works. We're the customers, they're the vendors. You tell the vendor the price is ridiculous, the vendor then goes up the food chain and tells the manufacturer (Borla) the prices are too high. And then Borla has the choice to compete with prices or keep their prices as are.
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      01-21-2009, 05:11 PM   #38
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Don't mean to start an argument but Madd Man specifically directed his comment towards Borla. In any case, thats how the food chain works. We're the customers, they're the vendors. You tell the vendor the price is ridiculous, the vendor then goes up the food chain and tells the manufacturer (Borla) the prices are too high. And then Borla has the choice to compete with prices or keep their prices as are.
That is a great summation of what I have been trying to convey the entire time.
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      01-21-2009, 05:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
...Product bashing without product knowledge or prior product experience is not appropriet here.
This is taken from their FS thread and is the kind of thing that makes a consumer not want to purchase from the vendor. Why make the assumption that we have absolutely no knowledge about the product.
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      01-25-2009, 08:22 PM   #40
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Crutchfield.com (yeah, the stereo people) offers the Borla for $1299.
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      01-25-2009, 10:33 PM   #41
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What system will you guys be purchasing if not Borla?
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      01-25-2009, 11:38 PM   #42
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http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6261176...3.html?tp=1225

How could they offer it that much cheaper than HP Autowerks? I'm curious to know the real MSRP and what the wholesale price is.
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      01-26-2009, 12:48 PM   #43
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http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6261176...3.html?tp=1225

How could they offer it that much cheaper than HP Autowerks? I'm curious to know the real MSRP and what the wholesale price is.

That one is the axel back and not the full race system. I think thats same price as the Borla site. The one for 1700+ is for the full race system.

I could be wrong...
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      01-26-2009, 06:15 PM   #44
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That one is the axel back and not the full race system. I think thats same price as the Borla site. The one for 1700+ is for the full race system.

I could be wrong...
According to HP's FS thread in the commercial section it is just for the cat back set up. The only other exhaust that Borla offers right now for our car is an axle-back (muffler) exhaust.

The link provided to Crutchfield is just for the axle-back (muffler) and that is discounted from $1,450 to $1,299.99.
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