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[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by WAY

I don't understand why people use tyres like the R1R. I am guessing it is noisy like hell anyway so why not just use a R compound? Unless you use your car for competition purposes like Berk or Evolution Racewerks and the rules dictates no R compound, otherwise just go all the way!

"cheater streeter" tires like this are great for weekend track junkies in non-prepped cars. they're safe to drive to/from the track, they have more progressive breakaway characteristics than r-comps while generating grip superior to just about any normal street tire, they last longer, they're cheaper, and they wont turn a stock car into QUITE as much of a sloppy mess as super-grippy r-comps will.

is that enough reasons?

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

"cheater streeter" tires like this are great for weekend track junkies in non-prepped cars. they're safe to drive to/from the track, they have more progressive breakaway characteristics than r-comps while generating grip superior to just about any normal street tire, they last longer, they're cheaper, and they wont turn a stock car into QUITE as much of a sloppy mess as super-grippy r-comps will.

is that enough reasons?

Your answer was much better than mine!

They are light and look aggressive too... I would have done the Dunlop Z1's but read they are very heavy and run real wide...

[WAY]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

"cheater streeter" tires like this are great for weekend track junkies in non-prepped cars. they're safe to drive to/from the track, they have more progressive breakaway characteristics than r-comps while generating grip superior to just about any normal street tire, they last longer, they're cheaper, and they wont turn a stock car into QUITE as much of a sloppy mess as super-grippy r-comps will.

is that enough reasons?

Other than that they last longer and hence cheaper, I don't agree with the other bits. Most people think that r-compound tyres are evil on the road, and stay out of the rain at whatever the cost, but it just isn't true. Yes, the first 1 or 2 miles are going to have less grip, but not to the extend that you are going to run off the road! And in the rain, they are still better than any "road tyres" unless there is standing water on the road which is unlikely unless you live in the country. So for me, if I was thinking of R1R or equavalent because I track regularly, my advice is to go for R-compound instead (provided the cost of ownership is ok with you).

[BerkTechnology]

Most of the R-comps will only grip well when you have heat in them. When they're cold, they will often have LESS grip than a good street tire that is designed to work at lower temps.

Street tires are the opposite. They grip great when cold (aka what you do on the street), but fall off quickly when you get heat in them. The Michellin Pilot Sport is one such tire. GREAT street tire since you always use them cold on the street, but fall off when hot.

Race pads vs. steet pads are another good analogy to the hold/cold performance.

Those Toyo R1R's are one of the best street tires around! They take heat well for a steet tire. Of course nothing compared to a R-comp!

[WAY]

Originally Posted by BerkTechnology

Most of the R-comps will only grip well when you have heat in them. When they're cold, they will often have LESS grip than a good street tire that is designed to work at lower temps.

Street tires are the opposite. They grip great when cold (aka what you do on the street), but fall off quickly when you get heat in them. The Michellin Pilot Sport is one such tire. GREAT street tire since you always use them cold on the street, but fall off when hot.

That is so true, and there is a lesson there to learn in terms of what size R compound tyre to use. On street tyre, 285 all round like what Evolution Racewerks has on their car will work, but put on a set of R-comps of that size on and you will probably struggle to get enough heat into the tyres even on a race track unless it is very hot!

[deeb]

I want a corvette lol

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Hooking at 25mph, for Toyo's R888 in 305/30/19 courtesy of Corvette Forum.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...LS2_181339.htm

I had an LS1 with every bolt on and had a hard time hooking at the track, can only imagine a supercharged LS2. Those motors make awesome power with very little worry...

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I've had LS1, LS6, LS2 so I know what you mean.

I was in a TT built LS6 and it would break the tires loose at 70mph!!!

The point behind the video (he's on second gear) and the opinions at the Corvette Forum is that these Toyos are good!

I can't wait for spring...

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by WAY

Other than that they last longer and hence cheaper, I don't agree with the other bits. Most people think that r-compound tyres are evil on the road, and stay out of the rain at whatever the cost, but it just isn't true. Yes, the first 1 or 2 miles are going to have less grip, but not to the extend that you are going to run off the road! And in the rain, they are still better than any "road tyres" unless there is standing water on the road which is unlikely unless you live in the country. So for me, if I was thinking of R1R or equavalent because I track regularly, my advice is to go for R-compound instead (provided the cost of ownership is ok with you).

so you don't agree that (from my previous post):
1. they're safer to drive to/from the track than r-comps (taking into account the many rainstorms i've been caught in while traveling to racetracks)
2. they have more progressive breakaway characteristics than r-comps
3. they generate grip superior to just about any normal street tire
4. they're cheaper
5. they wont turn a stock car into QUITE as much of a sloppy mess as super-grippy r-comps will.

hmm...

[ssabripo]

so what do you guys think of the Toyo T1R as an alternate to the Dunlop Star Spec?

never used them, but lots of fellow enthusiasts who are also occasional track guys swear by them!

[WAY]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

so you don't agree that (from my previous post):
1. they're safer to drive to/from the track than r-comps (taking into account the many rainstorms i've been caught in while traveling to racetracks)
2. they have more progressive breakaway characteristics than r-comps
3. they generate grip superior to just about any normal street tire
4. they're cheaper
5. they wont turn a stock car into QUITE as much of a sloppy mess as super-grippy r-comps will.

hmm...

1. Unless the roads in your area have absolutely crap drainage and you have standing water everywhere, it isn't an issue. My last track day was done in the worst rainstorm possible (see pic below which is the only pic in existence as it was too wet for anyone to take too many photos without ruining their equipment), and it was 125 miles of driving on public roads to get there. Made absolutely no difference at all. On the track, I reckon I would have been slower with road tyres versus my r-comps.

2. I don't know the nature of R1-R so it is hard to comment. But I imagine these semi track tyres aren't that friendly either. But the limit on the r-comps are so much higher that it is harder for you to reach the limits unless you are fully commited. I personally don't think R-comps are less progressive than some of the high performance road tyres I have driven on the track before.
3. Of course they generate more grip than road tyres, but R-comps generate way more grip if that is what you want
4. Over here, it is no cheaper for me to buy the R1R compared to a R-comp!
5. I think you are underestimating the stock car set up. You are not putting a set of r-comps into a non-sports suspension 116i or something! Anyway, I am not trying to convince you one way or another. It's your money, it's your car so it's your perrogative to do what you want!

[xbook]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

so what do you guys think of the Toyo T1R as an alternate to the Dunlop Star Spec?

never used them, but lots of fellow enthusiasts who are also occasional track guys swear by them!

I have made comments about this before. Personally I prefer the T-1R to the Dunlop Direzza. Not that the Dunlop is a bad tire, by any means. It's a great handling, great wearing, extreme performance tire. I base this on experience on the street and on the track, with both. My girlfriend has the Dunlops on her MINI Cooper S, back before I traded in my MINI Cooper S (same spec as her's), I had the Toyo T-1Rs on my MINI.

The Toyos had better grip, and I felt much more confident at high speeds in the Toyos vs. the Dunlops. of course this is just personal opinion. But, if i had to do over again, I would buy the T-1R.

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by WAY

1. Unless the roads in your area have absolutely crap drainage and you have standing water everywhere, it isn't an issue. My last track day was done in the worst rainstorm possible (see pic below which is the only pic in existence as it was too wet for anyone to take too many photos without ruining their equipment), and it was 125 miles of driving on public roads to get there. Made absolutely no difference at all. On the track, I reckon I would have been slower with road tyres versus my r-comps.

2. I don't know the nature of R1-R so it is hard to comment. But I imagine these semi track tyres aren't that friendly either. But the limit on the r-comps are so much higher that it is harder for you to reach the limits unless you are fully commited. I personally don't think R-comps are less progressive than some of the high performance road tyres I have driven on the track before.
3. Of course they generate more grip than road tyres, but R-comps generate way more grip if that is what you want
4. Over here, it is no cheaper for me to buy the R1R compared to a R-comp!
5. I think you are underestimating the stock car set up. You are not putting a set of r-comps into a non-sports suspension 116i or something! Anyway, I am not trying to convince you one way or another. It's your money, it's your car so it's your perrogative to do what you want!

1. you're saying r-comps are better on a wet track than street tires... that's irrelevant. i'm taking about highway safety. there's no argument here... slicks have no place on the highway, especially in rain. you could hit an unexpected area of poor drainage and be in deep trouble, unlike a track where you lap the same area every couple minutes, and know where the puddles are.
2. i havent used the r1r yet, but every cheater-streeter tire i've ever used has had MUCH more progressive breakaway than any r-comp i've used. and i've used LOTS of each category. as an instructor, it also makes teaching a lot harder when people go straight to r-comps, because they havent become familiar with "the edge" yet.
3. i guess you're agreeing with me?
4. cheater streeters are almost universally cheaper than r-comps, with the exception of closeouts/discontinued models, etc.
5. you agree that r-comps generate more grip... physics dictate that as you increase grip, you linearly increase forces applied to the suspension and chassis. it may not be a caddy deville, but it sure as hell wasn't designed for 255 square slicks.

either way, blindly supporting people jumping straght to r-comps is counterproductive and unsafe. as an instructor, it's the last thing i want to see, unless we're talking about a dedicated track car, and/or highly experienced (on the racetrack) driver.

[WAY]

I completely agree that for an inexperience track driver, I would not recommend jumping straight into a r-comp. I guess I do have the habit of thinking that everyone thinking of buying super agressive tyres like the R1R are experience track drivers. Having said that, if someone is inexperience, why not just stick to stock tyres instead and learning with them? The are MUCH safer (massive understeer) and they sure are progressive. I thrashed my set on the track before I got my Bridgestone RE55s. Btw, price wise, our R-comps like Dunlop DG-03Z and Bridgestone RE55s are cheaper than many street tyres like Conti Contactsport3, Pirelli Michelin PS2 etc and also the tyre in question here. But I noticed that you guys don't seemed to get the two r-comps (I may be wrong though) I just mentioned which is a shame as they are the ones I would recommend out of all r-comps.

[fourtailpipes]

i'd definitely be happiest with all my students, except for the most advanced ones, sticking with plain-jane street tires, but that's getting rarer and rarer with the modding culture here on the webernet. i see a terrifying number of people with little to no experience showing up with coilovers, significant power mods, and r-comps. bass ackwards.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by xbook

I have made comments about this before. Personally I prefer the T-1R to the Dunlop Direzza. Not that the Dunlop is a bad tire, by any means. It's a great handling, great wearing, extreme performance tire. I base this on experience on the street and on the track, with both. My girlfriend has the Dunlops on her MINI Cooper S, back before I traded in my MINI Cooper S (same spec as her's), I had the Toyo T-1Rs on my MINI.

The Toyos had better grip, and I felt much more confident at high speeds in the Toyos vs. the Dunlops. of course this is just personal opinion. But, if i had to do over again, I would buy the T-1R.

good stuff! anyone else?

[fourtailpipes]

i can definitely put in another +1 for the T1-R... one of the best street tires i've used, and holds up very well (for a street tire) on the track. my favorite "extreme perf." tire so far has been the falken RT-615, but good sizes for this car dont exist (unless you go 255/40-17). personally, i wasn't as impressed with the dunop direzza or the bridgestone re01r. i do have high hopes for this r1r, though!

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

i can definitely put in another +1 for the T1-R... one of the best street tires i've used, and holds up very well (for a street tire) on the track. my favorite "extreme perf." tire so far has been the falken RT-615, but good sizes for this car dont exist (unless you go 255/40-17). personally, i wasn't as impressed with the dunop direzza or the bridgestone re01r. i do have high hopes for this r1r, though!

outstanding. they are considerably cheaper, and looks like you guys are confirming that they are as good as the star specs, at worst

[jzhang]

sooooooo when are you putting them on your car????

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by jzhang

sooooooo when are you putting them on your car????

need a few more miles on theRTF's and then i'll get them!

[Speed Cat]

Did you ever take pics with thew R1R on the 135????

If so can you send me the link