BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-09-2009, 01:05 PM   #23
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,260
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinp View Post
So on the 135i, is there any official information on how exactly should you drive before the engine is warm? An amount of RPM you should stay under?
I haven't looked at the 135i manual for it, but my M Coupe manual states that until oil temp reaches 200 degrees, to keep it below 4k rpm. I'd guess that this holds roughly true for any motor. And yes, oil temp is much, much more critical than coolant temp. Coolant temp is only the ability to provide additional cooling capacity, while oil temp provides the lubrication system a chance to get to operating specs.
Red Bread is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2009, 01:57 PM   #24
jkp1187
Unindicted co-conspirator
 
Drives: to work, mostly.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I haven't looked at the 135i manual for it, but my M Coupe manual states that until oil temp reaches 200 degrees, to keep it below 4k rpm. I'd guess that this holds roughly true for any motor.


Thanks, I should've just RTFM.

"When the engine is at normal operating temperature, the engine oil temperature is between approx. 210*F/100*C and approx. 300*F/150*C." (Owner's manual, page 57.)

Quote:
And yes, oil temp is much, much more critical than coolant temp. Coolant temp is only the ability to provide additional cooling capacity, while oil temp provides the lubrication system a chance to get to operating specs.
And that's a point that can't be stressed enough. I have a ScanGauge and know that my coolant temp reaches 200*F relatively soon after startup. But that isn't what matters....
jkp1187 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2009, 02:55 PM   #25
m7ammed
1junkie
 
m7ammed's Avatar
 
Drives: Superman 135i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saudi Arabia

Posts: 822
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to m7ammed
well in normal driving conditions my car is anywhere in between 100 and 110 when pushed it will start creeping up to 120, today was one of the hottest days this summer here it was 10:30 pm and it was 42C outside( sunset is at 6:20). Also went for lunch and temps were above 50C and the engine was settled at 110C. So its taking the weather pretty well very glad
__________________

Mod List:
BMW Performance Parts: Front Bumper | Suspension | Exhaust | Gear Knob | Hand Brake | Steering Wheel
www.M7M-Photography.com
m7ammed is offline   Saudi Arabia
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2009, 05:13 PM   #26
Tom K.
Major General
 
Tom K.'s Avatar
 
Drives: '07 328iT, '13 Boxster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 5,377
iTrader: (0)

[quote=jkp1187;5670444]Thanks, I should've just RTFM.

"When the engine is at normal operating temperature, the engine oil temperature is between approx. 210*F/100*C and approx. 300*F/150*C." (Owner's manual, page 57.) [quote]

But unlike the M Coupe, there is no mention whatsoever of what warm-up means in terms of rev, throttle or speed limitations - and no way for 128i drivers to have any clue as to when our motors are "at normal operating temperature". I would guess most 1er owners are using a prudent "cold" (whatever that is) rev limit of 3~4,000, but not because BMW recommends it.

Somehow, I think back to my first car - a well used '52 Dodge with a top speed of 85 and a 0~60 time seemingly measured in days, not seconds. But the dash would immediately yield useful info on water temp, battery charge rate and oil pressure at a glance. Of course, it never reminded me that the washer fluid was low, so I guess we've made significant progress...

Tom
Tom K. is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2009, 05:38 PM   #27
jkp1187
Unindicted co-conspirator
 
Drives: to work, mostly.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K. View Post

Somehow, I think back to my first car - a well used '52 Dodge with a top speed of 85 and a 0~60 time seemingly measured in days, not seconds. But the dash would immediately yield useful info on water temp, battery charge rate and oil pressure at a glance. Of course, it never reminded me that the washer fluid was low, so I guess we've made significant progress...

Tom
And that's one reason why I keep a ScanGauge on my dashboard.
jkp1187 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-10-2009, 07:54 AM   #28
sparoz
Brigadier General
 
sparoz's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1///M; AW X3 30d
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

Posts: 4,833
iTrader: (0)

I guess in this case - we should treat it still in the break-in period until temps up?
__________________
1///M - Valencia Orange
X3 30d - Alpine White

Under Six Seconds http://www.under6s.com
sparoz is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      08-10-2009, 09:26 AM   #29
imported_mega
Colonel
 
Drives: various bmw's
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: neverland

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

oil takes quite a while to warm up, 2-3 minutes is NOT ENOUGH TIME, water warms up very fast, with the thermostat and closed loop, and bmw water temp guages are buffered to hell, basically an idiot light

the oil temp guage does not seem to be buffered at all, warm up is predictable, and spirited driving makes the gauge respond like you think it should
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
Gone but not forgotten..
1974 2002, 1987 325ic, 1987 325is
1995 M3, 2001 X5, 2007 MCS R56
imported_mega is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      08-11-2009, 09:39 AM   #30
Alow
First Lieutenant
 
Alow's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 128i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO

Posts: 390
iTrader: (1)

128i + performance steering wheel

I have a 128i and a performance steering wheel with the handy temperature gauge.

When I start it up in the morning, both temps are at around 30 C.

Within 5 minutes of driving, the coolant temperature stabilizes at 100ish C, but it takes the oil about 10-12 minutes to reach 100ish C. I go easy on it (not more than 3k rpms) during this time.

Once it does, I switch to g-forces display and let the fun begin
Alow is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-11-2009, 09:40 AM   #31
imported_mega
Colonel
 
Drives: various bmw's
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: neverland

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

that sounds more like it, mine takes a good 10 minutes to warm up too, I wont beat on the car at all until it's warmed up

water = almost instant
oil = 10 minutes
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
Gone but not forgotten..
1974 2002, 1987 325ic, 1987 325is
1995 M3, 2001 X5, 2007 MCS R56
imported_mega is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      08-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #32
jdbewl01
New Member
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Lafayette

Posts: 8
iTrader: (0)

Mine takes just about the exact distance from home to work to fully warm up, meaning boring drives in, and taking the long way home!
jdbewl01 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-31-2009, 02:34 PM   #33
afuiw
New Member
 
Drives: 128i
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC

Posts: 23
iTrader: (0)

On the 128i, you can use the service menu on the OBC/BC to access the coolant temperature among other things. Follow the instructions below to get to menu 07:00 which will show the coolant temperature (a.k.a. KTMP-MON).

http://e90.wetpaint.com/page/BC+hidden+menus

No idea how accurate or buffered the values are. Would be great if someone with an OBDII scanner can confirm the values are actually real time and match the OBDII values.

Takes me about 10 minutes driving under 3k RPM to get to a stable temperature of 100C.
afuiw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-31-2009, 03:58 PM   #34
Ajumepke
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: None
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 332
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbewl01 View Post
Mine takes just about the exact distance from home to work to fully warm up, meaning boring drives in, and taking the long way home!

count your blessing for a short commute? That's a luxury many of us don't have.
Ajumepke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-31-2009, 09:45 PM   #35
Mad Dragon
.
 
Mad Dragon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 GTI
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MD

Posts: 932
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Keep in mind that the temperature reading on the 135i is taken from the oil level sensor in the bottom of the oil sump, which slows it down some, and I'm of the opinion that it's dumbed down electronically.

The water is up to temp after a few minutes in the summer time.
I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.
Mad Dragon is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-31-2009, 10:12 PM   #36
cagekicker
Major
 
cagekicker's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 crimson red 135i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: miami (vice city) fl.

Posts: 1,335
iTrader: (0)

in miami's summer mine takes approx. 5 minutes.
__________________
6MT/ Sport Package/ N54/ Asa wheels/ Eibach pro kit springs/ Active autowerke Exhaust/ 35% tint
cagekicker is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2009, 05:30 AM   #37
imported_mega
Colonel
 
Drives: various bmw's
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: neverland

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dragon View Post
I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.
It's not, it's in the sump

and that's exactly where you want to take the oil temp to know if it's warm
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
Gone but not forgotten..
1974 2002, 1987 325ic, 1987 325is
1995 M3, 2001 X5, 2007 MCS R56
imported_mega is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-01-2009, 06:57 PM   #38
jeremyc74
Banned
 
Drives: '08 135i Montego/Terra
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Evansville, IN

Posts: 5,972
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dragon View Post
I'm pretty sure the oil temp sensor is near the filter housing.

According to what I've read, it's integrated into the oil level sensor in the bottom of the sump. It seems the sensor reads the oil level based on temperature changes, so it's possibly redundant to have another one. There's also been a member here who had the sensor fail, and the oil temp reading stopped working, which would seem to back that up.
jeremyc74 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 12:25 AM   #39
RPM90
Major General
 
Drives: 335i Msport w/sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 6,095
iTrader: (1)

Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.
RPM90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 06:14 AM   #40
imported_mega
Colonel
 
Drives: various bmw's
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: neverland

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.
no, it does not work that way, have you seen how the m3 tach works? The redlline changes based on oil temp. Also your oil change interval takes rpm & oil temp into consideration when it computes when to get your oil changed. Higher rpm and colder oil temp will count down miles faster than normal temp does.

it's not just the oil that has to be up to operating temp, it's also all the parts, having your coolent up to temp does NOT mean all the parts are warmed up. Anyone that's lived in a cold climate knows this first hand
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
Gone but not forgotten..
1974 2002, 1987 325ic, 1987 325is
1995 M3, 2001 X5, 2007 MCS R56
imported_mega is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 10:28 AM   #41
aerobod
Car Geek
 
aerobod's Avatar
 
Drives: Caterham R400, E82 135i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary

Posts: 769
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Why do people think that engine oil at 150F is protecting them less than when it's at 240F?

IF hotter oil were better, then we wouldn't want extra oil cooling.
Heck lets stop cooling the oil altogether and get an oil heater, even for the non winter months.

Oh my.
The temperature that the oil is at is not directly related to how it is protecting the engine. What is important is that all the engine components are heated up to the point that they are at their optimum design clearances and the oil is at the optimum viscosity between the moving parts. The oil temperature is a much better reflection of this stable state being reached than any other easily measurable parameter.
aerobod is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 12:44 PM   #42
Vaaaan
Private
 
Vaaaan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Jet Black 135i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin

Posts: 95
iTrader: (0)

Also from the manual, page 48:
"Do not wait for the engine to warm up while the vehicle remains stationary. Start driving right away, but at moderate engine speeds."

I wait for the idle to drop to normal level before driving, 5-10 minutes before any WOT, and 10-15 minutes or more before any 'racing'. No harm waiting longer, just use common sense.
__________________
2009 135i 6MT /// Jet Black \\\ Savanna Beige /// Premium \\\ M-Sport /// Active Steering \\\ Heated Seats /// Premium Hi-Fi \\\ iPod/USB adapter
Vaaaan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 07:49 PM   #43
RPM90
Major General
 
Drives: 335i Msport w/sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 6,095
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
The temperature that the oil is at is not directly related to how it is protecting the engine. What is important is that all the engine components are heated up to the point that they are at their optimum design clearances and the oil is at the optimum viscosity between the moving parts. The oil temperature is a much better reflection of this stable state being reached than any other easily measurable parameter.
That's what I've been saying, except, I disagree that the oil temp is the better indicator of that. The parts have reached the engine operating temp by the time the thermostat opens, that's the reason why it stays closed until that time, so that engine temp can be reached faster.
By the time the oil absorbs enough heat to get it to this magical 240F, the engine is well into being warmed.
The engine/coolant temp is the better indicator, but we don't have one, and that sucks.

You seem to understand, better, the issue of warmed up engine components better than some of the posters who think that they are hurting their engine if they drive it before their oil gauge reaches that certain temp.
There is NO indication on the oil temp gauge that says, "ok, now you can open it up." Nor is there any indication that you shouldn't open it up before it reaches a certain temp. In fact, there is NOTHING on that oil temp gauge except some numbers. If the oil temp gauge were showing a certain driving condition, then there should be a red, yellow, green, yellow, then red indication, showing where this optimal temp level is, but there isn't. The question is why? It's because the oil takes a good deal longer to heat up than the surrounding parts. Part of the oils job is cooling, most of it's job is lubricating.

I agree it's important for the engine bits to warm. However, it seems we disagree when that is. I've always used the engine/coolant temp as the indicator, and it's a shame BMW didn't leave one on. I've used the engine/coolant temp gauge as the indicator since I began driving in 1981, and it's never failed me or my engines.

The oil temp gauge is an ancillary gauge especially important when running hard mainly on the track. I don't know why BMW thought this was THE guage to have, because frankly I would have rather had an oil pressure gauge along with a coolant/engine temp gauge

I keep reading these oil temp gauge threads and a lot of people are stuck on using it as an indication of when to open it up. It's not the gauge of when the engine is warm. If anything, it's a gauge of when the engine temp has gotten so high that it now needs to open it's thermostat to try and REMOVE the heat. The coolant thermostat opens probably at around 170F, or when there is sufficient heat build up for proper engine operation, and now it's time to start proving cooling. The thermostat opens to circulate the coolant into the radiator to COOL it down to help maintain the best engine temp operating temp.

There are people on here who think their oil is somehow not protecting their engine whirly bits until it gets to around 240F. That's not ture.
Hotter oil is not better are lubricating than warm oil. In fact, if the oil gets too hot it starts losing it's lubricating properties.
The logic of it is getting lost with this oil temp gauge discussion.
RPM90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2009, 07:55 PM   #44
RPM90
Major General
 
Drives: 335i Msport w/sport AT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 6,095
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaaaan View Post
Also from the manual, page 48:
"Do not wait for the engine to warm up while the vehicle remains stationary. Start driving right away, but at moderate engine speeds."

I wait for the idle to drop to normal level before driving, 5-10 minutes before any WOT, and 10-15 minutes or more before any 'racing'. No harm waiting longer, just use common sense.
The reason behind why not to wait, is because the engine warms FASTER if it's driven moderately, and not just the engine but the trans, tires, brakes, etc...

Yes, no one should hammer the throttle on a just started engine, and people need to take into consideration the ambient temps they are driving in as well.

I haven't used my heater except once one morning.
Those of you that have your 1's for a while in cold weather, how long does it take for you to get warm then hot air from the HVAC in winter temps?
By winter, I mean at least 32F and below.
RPM90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST