Swaybars: Decisions, decisions

[woodman650]

No, you guys are right. I can hand someone $100 and walk away with a new bar installed... or I can spend $100 on the equipment I need, do it myself, and still have $100 worth of equipment to use for future projects. I'll be in my garage this Saturday morning

BTW... I saw a torque wrench at Home Depot but it was $85. Can I get one cheaper some place else?

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by woodman650

No, you guys are right. I can hand someone $100 and walk away with a new bar installed... or I can spend $100 on the equipment I need, do it myself, and still have $100 worth of equipment to use for future projects. I'll be in my garage this Saturday morning

BTW... I saw a torque wrench at Home Depot but it was $85. Can I get one cheaper some place else?

Shop around: Lowes, Sears, Autozone, any automotive tools shop....

[Dr3K0]

Originally Posted by woodman650

BTW... I saw a torque wrench at Home Depot but it was $85. Can I get one cheaper some place else?

Harbor Freight Tools.

I got a 1/2 driver torque wrench for $20 or so.

Dr3K0

[Fireflyer239]

Originally Posted by woodman650

No, you guys are right. I can hand someone $100 and walk away with a new bar installed... or I can spend $100 on the equipment I need, do it myself, and still have $100 worth of equipment to use for future projects. I'll be in my garage this Saturday morning

BTW... I saw a torque wrench at Home Depot but it was $85. Can I get one cheaper some place else?

Hey if you want, you can call me before or during the job and I'll be happy to help out. Maybe a short conversation will get you set up more confidently before you begin and give you a heads up for a few things to keep in mind? I've done the job twice so far, on my ride and another forum member's. No issues, just smooth sailin' in both cases. PM me if you like and let me know, hope everything goes great in any case! Lube your bushings!

[woodman650]

^ What a great fellow! Thanks man. I sent ya a PM.

Thanks for tool shopping suggestions as well guys, I'll let you know how it goes

[vitig]

after finishing the front and running two months only whit this, now I want to do the rear because i think that the rear sway help the action of the front.
the question is: do the e92 bar(20mm) or e93 bar(23,5mm)?.

[SlickShift]

I've had the front bar for a couple months and I'm ready to get the rear bar now. The lack of body roll is great, but I can't stand the understeer. I might try the softer setting on the UUC front bar to see if that helps, but I'll probably just end up getting the rear to balance things out.

To answer your questions though: I think the 20mm is the way to go. The stock bar is only 12mm, so going up to 20mm is already a significant jump. The last thing you want the car doing is oversteering. We've already got 300+ hp to help us with that.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by SlickShift

I've had the front bar for a couple months and I'm ready to get the rear bar now. The lack of body roll is great, but I can't stand the understeer. I might try the softer setting on the UUC front bar to see if that helps, but I'll probably just end up getting the rear to balance things out.

good idea. I started with the UUC front bar only. Tired it on stiff and then soft. Still felt mid corner and corner exit understeer (initial turn it was much better though). Plus with the front bar only I would lift a wheel at the autox. I broke down and had the rear bar installed. Blanced things out nicely. I run both bars on full stiff.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by vitig

after finishing the front and running two months only whit this, now I want to do the rear because i think that the rear sway help the action of the front.
the question is: do the e92 bar(20mm) or e93 bar(23,5mm)?.

Originally Posted by SlickShift

I've had the front bar for a couple months and I'm ready to get the rear bar now. The lack of body roll is great, but I can't stand the understeer. I might try the softer setting on the UUC front bar to see if that helps, but I'll probably just end up getting the rear to balance things out.

To answer your questions though: I think the 20mm is the way to go. The stock bar is only 12mm, so going up to 20mm is already a significant jump. The last thing you want the car doing is oversteering. We've already got 300+ hp to help us with that.

Interesting, I'm finding more and more people installing the front and following it up with the rear later down the track. Does the front alone improve the car significantly or do front/rear go hand in hand?

[larryn]

Originally Posted by nordique14

good idea. I started with the UUC front bar only. Tired it on stiff and then soft. Still felt mid corner and corner exit understeer (initial turn it was much better though). Plus with the front bar only I would lift a wheel at the autox. I broke down and had the rear bar installed. Blanced things out nicely. I run both bars on full stiff.

Question for you. I totally gave up on UUC, after many prototype bars sent to me, after the original 1er bar ripped out my brake lines and ABS sensors on the highway. It's sitting in a junk pile at the moment.

Rob did send me a "final reworked" front sway, and no matter how I adjusted it, I got MAJOR banging. I even replaced UUC's crappy adjustable end links with Velocity's, and it would continually bang against the steering linkage. Do you have those issues?

Btw, with R comps on, I would lift frequently too.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by larryn

Question for you. I totally gave up on UUC, after many prototype bars sent to me, after the original 1er bar ripped out my brake lines and ABS sensors on the highway. It's sitting in a junk pile at the moment.

Rob did send me a "final reworked" front sway, and no matter how I adjusted it, I got MAJOR banging. I even replaced UUC's crappy adjustable end links with Velocity's, and it would continually bang against the steering linkage. Do you have those issues?

Btw, with R comps on, I would lift frequently too.

I received the v2 UUC front bar. There are only 2 holes instead of three. I installed it myself using your how-to as a guide (thanks!).

I have not had any issues. Brake lines have remained attached and no rubbing or clunking. The adjustable end links made some noise until my mechanic tightened the crap out of them when I brought the car in for the rear bar install. I thought I had tightened them enough but obviously I was wrong. Not a peep out them since. Everything has been fine both front and rear. I run stock wheels with RE-01 on the street and I run 17x8.5 ET40 with 235/40/17 R888 at the autox.

With the front bar only I was running near the bottom of the top 10 in my class. About half way through the season is when I added the rear bar. After that I was in the top 5 every time and even picked up a win in my class at one event. Made a big difference for me with the stock suspension.

[larryn]

Are you lowered at all? Maybe that's the difference? I'm lowered.

Maybe I'm too paranoid to adjust the endlinks any shorter, after they messed my car up so bad last time. I had a golden horseshoe that day, that I was not in a major wreck. The stock sways end in a U shape, where the UUCs do not.

Good job on the class win! There's no doubt that there are major benefits to fatter sways. I'll likely go with Hotchkis or the E93 sways.

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by nordique14

I received the v2 UUC front bar. There are only 2 holes instead of three. I installed it myself using your how-to as a guide (thanks!).

I have not had any issues. Brake lines have remained attached and no rubbing or clunking. The adjustable end links made some noise until my mechanic tightened the crap out of them when I brought the car in for the rear bar install. I thought I had tightened them enough but obviously I was wrong. Not a peep out them since. Everything has been fine both front and rear. I run stock wheels with RE-01 on the street and I run 17x8.5 ET40 with 235/40/17 R888 at the autox.

With the front bar only I was running near the bottom of the top 10 in my class. About half way through the season is when I added the rear bar. After that I was in the top 5 every time and even picked up a win in my class at one event. Made a big difference for me with the stock suspension.

You dont have camber plates or M3 front lower control arms? I would guess you need to compliment your front sway with one of the two to prevent roll into positive camber.

[SlickShift]

Originally Posted by larryn

Are you lowered at all? Maybe that's the difference? I'm lowered.

Maybe I'm too paranoid to adjust the endlinks any shorter, after they messed my car up so bad last time. I had a golden horseshoe that day, that I was not in a major wreck. The stock sways end in a U shape, where the UUCs do not.

Good job on the class win! There's no doubt that there are major benefits to fatter sways. I'll likely go with Hotchkis or the E93 sways.

I have the v2 UUC bar installed with lowering springs. No problems with it rubbing on anything yet. I am getting some seriously clunking though. I'm gunna tighten the crap out of the endlink bolts and see if that helps. I kinda miss my old H&R sways; they were so quiet.

PS - I'm using the stock endlinks.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by larryn

Are you lowered at all? Maybe that's the difference? I'm lowered.

Maybe I'm too paranoid to adjust the endlinks any shorter, after they messed my car up so bad last time. I had a golden horseshoe that day, that I was not in a major wreck. The stock sways end in a U shape, where the UUCs do not.

Good job on the class win! There's no doubt that there are major benefits to fatter sways. I'll likely go with Hotchkis or the E93 sways.

Stock springs and shocks. So no lowering. The UUC V2 end tabs are at an angle now. Loosk ike you original ones came out parallel to the bar.

The adjustable end links are pretty much as short as they can go on my stock ride height car. The end links should not be pre loaded. I would guess they have about another 1/2" or 3/4" before they max out. Any car dropped more than that would require different end links than the ones provided with the bar.

Originally Posted by arrutled

You dont have camber plates or M3 front lower control arms? I would guess you need to compliment your front sway with one of the two to prevent roll into positive camber.

Good call. I do have the M3 arms (front and rear). The stock arm bushings are a joke. They are so soft (likely to compensate for the stiffer sidewalls on the RFT).

[larryn]

Originally Posted by nordique14

Stock springs and shocks. So no lowering. The UUC V2 end tabs are at an angle now. Loosk ike you original ones came out parallel to the bar.

The adjustable end links are pretty much as short as they can go on my stock ride height car. The end links should not be pre loaded. I would guess they have about another 1/2" or 3/4" before they max out. Any car dropped more than that would require different end links than the ones provided with the bar.

With H&R sports, it does drop more than an inch, so there is not enough room for travel without bang-bang-bang, unless you put adjust the bar up so high that it can invert. So, I did buy the Velocity end -links, and even those had issues with the bolt seat being too small and getting rounded, causing bang-bang-bang with those AND the swaybar.

Btw, I totally agree regarding the M3 bits. Car is mucho more precise with those.

[arrutled]

[/quote]Good call. I do have the M3 arms (front and rear). The stock arm bushings are a joke. They are so soft (likely to compensate for the stiffer sidewalls on the RFT).[/quote]

How do you feel about the rear control arms? are they a must like the front? I have not jumped on them yet.

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by larryn

With H&R sports, it does drop more than an inch, so there is not enough room for travel without bang-bang-bang, unless you put adjust the bar up so high that it can invert. So, I did buy the Velocity end -links, and even those had issues with the bolt seat being too small and getting rounded, causing bang-bang-bang with those AND the swaybar.

Btw, I totally agree regarding the M3 bits. Car is mucho more precise with those.

Is the body on those end links any shorter? Sounds like they still might not be short enough. There was an article a while back on how to make your won end links. You could order the parts and use any length body you needed so you ended up withe correct end link length for you car. I will see if I can dig it up for you (if it still exists).

edit:
found the link. It is an article from UUC so you may not be interested.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_te..._bar_links.htm

[nordique14]

How do you feel about the rear control arms? are they a must like the front? I have not jumped on them yet.

Rear arms are not as much of a difference as the fronts. Initially when I put them on I still had RFT and the ride got noticeably harsher. That harshness went away when I went to non-RFT. That is why I think the very soft bushings on our car are due to the RFT. The M cars do not have RFT so they can get away with much stiffer bushings without creating any worse of a ride on the bumpy pavement.

[hats4bats]

Just put the Hotchkis front bar on my 128 (stock suspension/vert) and it's truly outstanding. It took the car out on the twisties (Woodside Rd to Skyline to La Honda for you Peninsula-heads) and the handling was super-crisp. Clearly no auto-x in my future, but the spirited backwoods run was an order of magnitude more enjoyable for sure. Smiles per dollar ratio of this mod was outstanding.
Kudos, also to Hotchkis for being super-responsive, helpful and user-friendly and major props to Fireflyer for dispensing some great advice, both on the thread and via PM.
A couple of cats have asked if the front sway is worthwhile for 128s and my answer is a wholehearted yes . . .

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by hats4bats

Clearly no auto-x in my future...

Why not? Tons of great clubs to autox with here in the Bay Area including the BMW club.

[Fireflyer239]

For sure - bang for the buck you can't beat it, and I believe not one Hotchkis user has reported problems of any kind. Way to go Hats!