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      07-13-2010, 12:12 AM   #45
jksgoh
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I am just saying that IF you are going with BMW OCI and your car starts ticking like a sewing machine - what do you expect!?!?
well, i would expect the car to work as intended.
And this still does not explain why a "lack" of oil changes would cause the problem. Again, if it really was due to a "lack" of oil changes why have BMW simply not adjusted their OCI?
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      07-13-2010, 06:52 AM   #46
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When oil gets old it tends to get thin, lower viscosity, and may stick to surfaces less effectively. On a cold start you have no oil pressure for a brief period and you are depending on the oil film left from your last drive to lubricate the engine until the pressure comes up. If the oil film is minimal - because the oil has broken down - then you will do an abnormal amount of wear.

It's not clear to me that you can keep enough oil in the lifter to help much, however. It also is unclear to me that a little noise at idle is more than an annoyance. If the lifter "pumps up" with engine revolutions so that it results in the proper lift on the valves, then the noise at idle does not seem to be an issue with the engine doing basically what it is supposed to. I'd rather my car not sound like it has mechanical lifters with too much clearance but it seems most important that it function properly under load.

Annually or every 15,000 miles is not an oil change interval designed to maximize the lifespan of your engine. It will get it through the warranty period and will probably get you around 100,000 fairly trouble free miles but IMHO it is not going to make the 300,000 miles or so that a modern engine should be capable of. I change around 5,000 miles on a full synthetic. That may be wasting some money on oil and filters but I'd rather do that than be looking at a rebuild at 100,000 miles. I changed the oil on a Toyota pickup with nearly 200,000 miles on it Saturday. The owner changes oil and filter very frequently and it functions like a new engine. Experiences like this have convinced me to spend a little on frequent oil changes.

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      07-13-2010, 08:22 AM   #47
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I wasn't meaning to get into the whole oil change debate, and i understand the theoretical merit of more frequent oil changes. But i still believe it is an inadequate explanation for the ticking noise, and i sometimes get the feeling that people just jump to the "bad oil" for the cause of any engine problem.
Even as you have said JimD, you should be able to get a few decent kms/miles/years out of it without any problem by following bmw's recommendations. Whereas the ticking noise seems to occur in relatively new engines.
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      08-06-2010, 07:06 PM   #48
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Got my lifters replaced today.
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      12-27-2010, 08:57 AM   #49
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Lifters were replaced 5 months ago, and ticking came back. My dealer is waiting on PUMA authorization for head replacement today.

Any tips or watch-outs?
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      01-14-2011, 11:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jksgoh View Post
I wasn't meaning to get into the whole oil change debate, and i understand the theoretical merit of more frequent oil changes. But i still believe it is an inadequate explanation for the ticking noise, and i sometimes get the feeling that people just jump to the "bad oil" for the cause of any engine problem.
Even as you have said JimD, you should be able to get a few decent kms/miles/years out of it without any problem by following bmw's recommendations. Whereas the ticking noise seems to occur in relatively new engines.
I think this is a great summary of the issue. We all know and mostly agree with "more frequent=better" concerning oil changes, but its not the end-all-be-all and certainly not a sufficient explanation.
A $40,000.00 "Ultimate Driving Machine" with 35,500 miles, 3 months of warranty to go, AND tick...tick...tick...tick...tick.
As I am new to this information I am pretty concerned. I love the car, but a minor flaw like this is unacceptable, not to mention if it is actually serious.
Whatever information anyone has to offer is appreciated. I have an appointment in a week, hopefully its just a minor annoyance!
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      01-14-2011, 11:58 PM   #51
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15K miles and no ticking, knock on wood. It seems that a small percentage of the cars make the noise. If it were a design defect all of them would be hammering away. I think the OCI is a red herring. Without an analysis you're only guessing. Has anyone with the ticking done an oil analysis and noticed high metal counts or breakdown of the oil lubricating qualities?
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      01-15-2011, 12:33 AM   #52
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I'm at 18k miles and my car has started to tick. Is there a TSB or a recall on this? Do I just go up to them and explain the ticking noise. CAI shouldn't be an issue right? My dealership is cool with mods but I was just curious of CAI could cause the ticking noise?
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      01-15-2011, 12:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenkirby21 View Post
I'm at 18k miles and my car has started to tick. ...
Could I talk you into doing an oil analysis? $25 and it's worth it's weight in gold for peace of mind and any future negotiations you might have concerning the problem. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ If the ticking is premature wear of specific part(s) the only fix will be to replace them. They can pretty much tell by the types of excessive metal particles that show up what part is failing.
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      01-21-2011, 07:07 PM   #54
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My VIN is accepted by RealOEM now so I checked the part number for my head. I have the new part. So I should not have the ticking issue.

I don't think more frequent oil changes will solve a design problem. I do not have experience working on old BMW motors. But I know that infrequent oil changes will result in buildup in the valve train of the motors I have torn down. If the oiling of the lifters is marginal and you let some sludge get into them, they are not going to work as well. If you change the oil more frequently, you may at least avoid the issue longer. Maybe you never get it. But the real solution is parts with adequate oil to the lifters. Apparently that at least sometimes requires a new head. Makes sense if it is an oil flow to the lifters issue. Lifters alone would help but the passages to the lifters matters too.

If you are annoyed by the noise I do not know what you can do but get it fixed for as little of your money as possible. If you are scared something terrible is happening in your engine because it is ticking, I don't think you should have that concern. Oil pressure rises with engine rpm so I think there is good reason to believe the clearance in the lifters causing the noise goes away when rpm (and oil pressure) increases. I don't think we should have to tolerate ticking for what we pay for our cars, even if it is mainly a cosmetic type issue.

One of the reasons I think the lifters are likely to be working fine at higher rpm is that is my experience on old american cars with somewhat worn out lifters and low oil pressure. They would make noise too but it was fairly clear from the performance of the vehicle that the engine was not seriously down on power like it would be from significantly reduced valve lift. In those engines thicker oil helped sometimes but an engine rebuild was the only permanent fix (oil pressure drops in old engines because the clearance in the bearings increases). (thicker oil will give you higher pressure at startup but it also might leave some areas without oil for longer because it will not flow as well, I wouldn't recommend it for a car under warranty)

Jim
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      01-21-2011, 08:27 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
My VIN is accepted by RealOEM now so I checked the part number for my head. I have the new part.....
How does one check their VIN? RealOEM?

Postscript: Found the RealOEM site and using my serial/VIN number it says I should have head part #11127591617 which from the first post in this thread is the updated one......correct?

Last edited by mleskovar; 01-21-2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: found RealOEM
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      01-21-2011, 08:37 PM   #56
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Quote:
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...I changed the oil on a Toyota pickup with nearly 200,000 miles on it Saturday. The owner changes oil and filter very frequently and it functions like a new engine. Experiences like this have convinced me to spend a little on frequent oil changes.

Jim

^^ +1 Jim.

For engines that are already gumed up (by long OCI's) I have seen mechanics use a liter of ATF added into the engine oil and drive the car for a little bit. Then do an oil change. There are also comercial made products that clean the engine internals.
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      02-08-2011, 11:37 AM   #57
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My 128 was made in May 2009, which apparently was after BMW started shipping the engines with improved parts. It developed a tick at about 15,000 miles anyway. Compared to some of the videos on youtube where the engine sounded more like a diesel, it wasn't that bad, just a ticking at idle after a cold start which seemed to come and go. I called the dealer to make sure mine was manufactured after the affected dates and they said yes but to bring it in anyway. So I did this morning and got a call about 3 hours later saying the mechanic had immediately heard it and sure enough it was the lifters. They apparently have them in stock and are installing them right away.

I wonder if its a bigger problem than BMW lets on since they went right to replacing the lifters and had them in stock. Doesn't seem like a part you would normally keep around unless you know you will need them. Or maybe its just a good way for them to charge BMW a few thousand dollars.
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      10-31-2011, 09:26 AM   #58
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mine does this once every 6-8 weeks. never longer for a day, usually just one ride.

how often does this need to happen where it's considered a problem? I never took it in under warranty because it would never last long enough to show them. looking at the fix it looks like it would cost $3,000 at least out of warranty.
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      10-31-2011, 10:03 AM   #59
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I will help out with the "bad oil" long OCI debate. I have around 16k (getting close to 17k) miles on my oil and I am getting close to needing it changed. I am getting a blackstone labs test done and will post when I get it back. Although I have seen 2006 BMW (not sure 100% on model) put over 16k miles on their oil and according to the numbers listed blackstone labs determined the oil was still good.
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      11-04-2011, 01:05 PM   #60
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I have a 2008, no ticking but all of my trips are at least 30 miles. Maybe its the short trip people that are having issues.
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      11-07-2011, 06:46 AM   #61
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I have a 2008, no ticking but all of my trips are at least 30 miles. Maybe its the short trip people that are having issues.
Yes, if you are taking short trips all the time your engine will start ticking. If its cold and I take short trips to the store (about a mile or so) the engine will start ticking like crazy. My trips to work are anywhere from 17-25 miles (multiple routes) and I never hear it tick during the work week.
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      11-07-2011, 10:04 AM   #62
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Same here, only ticking on short trips. Had my car in for regular service a couple weeks ago and complained about the ticking, mainly because I'm approaching the end of the B2B warranty. Service advisor claimed they couldn't replicate it. Really, that's strange, it does it every time I pick it up from service and you guys leave it idling at the entry door while I complete paperwork. Had another service advisor come outside and he verified from about 20 feet away that it was definitely ticking. Now just have to make an appointment...
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      11-08-2011, 06:11 PM   #63
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I just had the exhaust lifters replace last week as per the TSB. The dealer just called me and said that they were updated again today and they would like to get them in before my warranty expired. I guess they are slow in the shop, but if they were updated again I want them for sure. I'm leaving it off on tuesday.
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      11-10-2011, 10:31 AM   #64
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Had my lifters and some ohter thing replaced a couple months ago to remedy the ticking. It worked for 2 months and poof the ticking magically appears again. This is highly annoying. Every time I hear it tick all I think about is my friends old shitty mustang that ticked like crazy because of some hole in his headers.

Either way I associate the tick to crappy cars, and that's why I hate the tick so much. Why is there no solution for it????
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      11-10-2011, 03:41 PM   #65
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I am not trying to imply that the engines with ticking sounds are worn out due to infrequent oil changes. I am only saying that relatively high mileage oil is thinner. My theory is that the oil pressure is not being maintained in the lifters at low rpm resulting in additional clearance and the ticking sound. Thin oil also reduces oil pressure at idle. That could make the sounds more noticable.

The reports of noise only before the engine warms up is inconsistent with this, however. Before the engine warms up the oil is thicker and oil pressure should be higher. It still could be inadequate oil in the lifters but it could be from inadequate supply to the lifters versus the drain from the lifters. Thinner oil (hotter or older oil) would help reduce that.

I'm glad my motor doesn't do this but I still see it as more of a cosmetic issue. If the clearnce in the lifter is normal as soon as the engine rpm goes up a little from idle, I can't see where it is hurting anything. If it was an old american built motor I would say to find a higher flow oil pump to put on. Do they make high flow oil pumps for BMWs?

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      11-12-2011, 03:22 PM   #66
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I have a 2011 128i. Just had my first yearly oil change at 11,700 miles. I have never gone this long between OCI's and I am worried so I sent my oil to Blackstone Laboratories. I should have the results this week, should be interesting because my engine just started ticking after the oil change. Might have something to do with the oil viscosity as mentioned above.
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