WRX -> 135i

[tougerenner]

Hi all, im new, long time lurker first time poster.

I currently have a 06 WRX and am looking to get out of it and in to some thing else. I have come down to the choice of a New STi or a 135. My current wrx was pretty modded, hardened bushings everywhere, huge sways, coil overs, stg2 (DP, BCS, IC, tune), brakes, Bridgestone RE01R tires, ect....the list goes on. Ultimately I cant get the wrx to feel as good as the STi in terms of driving feedback and a sense of being sure of its self. I have driven plenty of STi's modded and stock, and I like them. I even like a stock STi over my current WRX, because of that damn 6sp with its DCCD and LSD at all differential, which is what I feel is the missing link between the WRX and STi. The only reason I am now looking at BMWs is I got to drive my friend stock E46 M3 with the comp package on it, and I instantly loved the car in terms of how it felt. That M3 felt more numb than the 9.0 earthquake that my WRX is, but it did exactly what I told it to do, and I like how controllable it was right out of the box. One fundamental difference I felt with the M3 over any of the Impreza family is that under high speed braking the M3 did not dive and feel like the rear suspension was unloading, it felt like it just squatted evenly. Though i am open to an e46 m3 i would rather have something new and since the e92 m3 is $TEXAS$ that's not an option. I know that asking on a BMW 1 forum so the responses I will get probably will be bias, but here it goes.

If I got a 135i I would order it and the only thing I want is the M package in manual (I love that 3rd pedal). That being said i have no intentions of ever modding again. I am completely over that phase of my car life. My other option is the the STi which will also stay stock. I do NOT race others on the streets or do crazy freeway pulls, etc. I might take it to the track a few times. But typically I like driving back roads here in the Los Angeles and Ventura County areas. I frequent the Malibu canyons (decker, yerba buena, tuna canyon(the 1way road) ), hwy 33, cerro noreste, Lockwood valley rd, Angeles Crest Highway and connectors, etc, again I am not racing just like driving "spiritedly" if that's what you want to call it. I have driven stock and modded STi's on these roads and I like it, I know what I would be getting in to if I went back with Suby. But is this area of driving (canyon) somewhere the 135i will out shine the STi? How well does the 135 fair in tight and technical (tuna canyon) and high speed and flowing (hwy 33)

thanks for any input

[emtrey]

Simply put..the BMW will be alot less "frentic" than the Suby. It is well controlled, quick and comfortable. Is it as "boy racer "as the Suby---no.

Depends what you want.

The car is what I call "naturally" fast. You don't have to whomp on it..just push the pedal and GO-its smooth and sneaky fast. It is a great highway car and fun on the back roads.

I also doubt it will be quite as reliable as the SUBY over time and miles.

[JasonCSU]

Seeing that you are coming from a modded WRX, I'm sure the modding bug will bite as well if you get a 135. Those initial mods would be to replace the RFT's and stiffen up the suspension if you are trying to reach a similar feel to the E46 M3 you drove. That would probably suit your needs mod-wise, but eventually everyone seems to crave more power.

[Muffnbluff]

I can probably give you the best feedback of anyone on here...

I still own my 2005 STI...probably going to sell it though. I have that car modded to 380whp, Dom1 turbo, APS FMIC, EWG, TBE, injectors, intake, etc, etc. You get the idea, it's a highly modified STi, and is fast as shit. However, the whole reason I wanted to get another car was because the STi is kind of brutal for daily driving. It squeeks and groans and the exhaust is loud as hell, it's just not a very comfortable car.

I know where you come from when you say you're over the modding your car thing. I probably put over $15k into my STi, it was a lot of fun to do but I just got tired of driving it every day because it's so harsh.

I was actually dead set on buying a 335i until I test drove the 135i. I know there isn't a huge performance gap between the two, but the 135i just felt so much better to me. I found an '08 model left on the lot for a great price and it had all the options I needed, leather seats, m package, and a few others that are nice to have: heated seats and ipod connection. I too need that third pedal.

The 135i is an amazing vehicle. The sport seats are incredibly comfortable and have a lot of bolstering to keep you in place, waaaay better than the STi seats. Everything about the car is just more refined than on the STi. It's a more comfortable ride in every way. Even when you close the doors it just sounds solid, not tinny and cheap like the STi.

The performance of the 135i is equally impressive. The handling is an amazing balance between comfort and performance. The car handles incredibly well and is a much smoother ride than the STi. Obviously, it desperately wants a LSD, but it's not like the car doesn't handle well without it. As far as power goes, it's definitely faster than a stock STi. The turbos deliver power instantly, turbo lag is almost non-existent. I'm amazed at how hard this car pulls in 1-2 gear in stock form.

Overall, the 135i is a much better car to drive everyday and be happy with in stock form. I still think my STi is more fun to drive when I want to go out and drive fast, it's just a pure performance machine. However, that's a small portion of my driving. The 135i is still really really fun to drive fast, but it's just sooooo much better as far as comfort and luxury go.

I have no intentions of seriously modding the 135i, but I will probably go with a JB+ just because I can leave it on default and not worry about codes and get a cheap, reliable 40hp that's easy to install/uninstall.

There are other things that suck about the 135i...having only two doors is kind of a bummer. But I rarely ever have more than one person in my car, so it's not a big deal. You just have to get used to throwing things in the trunk instead of the back seat. And the trunk isn't very big at that. Also, I do kind of miss AWD. I don't really need it now that I'm down in Houston, but I do love the grip and power delivery you get with AWD.

[Muffnbluff]

Originally Posted by emtrey

Simply put..the BMW will be alot less "frentic" than the Suby. It is well controlled, quick and comfortable. Is it as "boy racer "as the Suby---no.

Depends what you want.

The car is what I call "naturally" fast. You don't have to whomp on it..just push the pedal and GO-its smooth and sneaky fast. It is a great highway car and fun on the back roads.

I also doubt it will be quite as reliable as the SUBY over time and miles.

You are right that the 135i is sneaky fast...I can get up to 90 on the highway before I know it and it feels like I'm going 60.

You are wrong about the reliability part though. Subarus are incredibly reliable cars, more so than BMWs I think. In over four years I've had zero problems with my STi and it's pushing out 50% more hp than stock. I had to replace both my tail lights on the 135i within 2k miles.

[emtrey]

I had an E46 M-3 and I like the 135 alot more. However, if it was not a leased DD, I might do some suspension tightening and lose the run craps.

Do not underestimate the N54 engine. Its very good (assuming the HPFP does not fail)

[oasis3582]

I think the suspension on the 135 would be your biggest problem...I know you don't want to mod, but if you want to make it comparable to the E46 or your WRX, you will need to tweak it.

[emtrey]

Originally Posted by Muffnbluff

You are right that the 135i is sneaky fast...I can get up to 90 on the highway before I know it and it feels like I'm going 60.

You are wrong about the reliability part though. Subarus are incredibly reliable cars, more so than BMWs I think. In over four years I've had zero problems with my STi and it's pushing out 50% more hp than stock. I had to replace both my tail lights on the 135i within 2k miles.

I think you misread my comments. I have owned 8 BMWs and I know there is NO WAY the BMW would be as reliable as a Subaru. I love BMWs but they can get quite expensive to keep after the warranty. I leased this one and I will let them deal with it when its no longer on their dime.

[Brahmzy]

I have come from an '98 Impreza RS, '00 Legacy, '04 WRX (highly modded), '05 Legacy GT (highly modded), '05 STi (very, very highly modded).

Without repeating what has already been said. Subaru's are some of the most reliable cars out there. No failures on any single one of those cars.

I liked the 135i more than my STi as soon as I sat in it and drove it. Seats, Low-down torque, Solid feel, grip, turn-in, tightness in steering feedback feel etc. etc.

I loved my Sti, but this 135 is just another animal altogether. I do miss certain parts of the AWD (very forgiving and driftable(if you lose control, just point the car where you want it to go and mash the gas)). But, that AWD system robs a TON of usable power - especially on the roll on the highway.

The 135 just feels so refined. The interior and seats are leagues ahead of even the current STi. I cannot stand the new hatch backs anyway, but that's a personal opinion.

I must have driven 30 different cars before I bought the 1er. Evo MR's, STi's, WRX's, 370Z's many, many times each. The 1er was the only one that put a big smile on my face. I wondered if it was because I've "been there done that" with the boy-racer, raw AWD cars, but I honestly attribute it to the 135 itself. It's just an amazing car. I have already done things in this car stock that I couldn't do in a heavily modded STi.

All that said, good luck with the "no more mods" thing if you get the 1er. I've only got 289 miles on mine and already have a intake, JB3 and zaust on the way. That's why I bought another car with turbos on it. I will probably leave the suspension alone.

Good luck with your decision! All I can say is go drive a 135 and see what you think. I bet that will make the decision easy.

[tougerenner]

thanks guys.

I guess I really need to drive one. The only thing I guess I am some what concerned with is really how far is the performance gap with the 135i and the e46 m3. I realize it might be a hard comparison being that a 135i with M package is not a true M. Or is there "that much" difference between non M cars with M packages and M cars?

This is a bit of an opinion question but; So currently my thought is I should have bought the STi instead of the WRX, If I went with a 135i over a CPO E46 M3 would end up in the same boat?

Is it fair to compare the 135i to a E46 M3?

The STi I would buy is the new hatch and with that "special edition" that's coming out in early 2010 with the JDM spec C suspension which is stiffer and lower from the factory seems like the ticket for me if I went back to suby. I don't want to argue about what the striped from the car, Im ok with every thing they took out. I have driven the new STi and they are softer and more refined than the previous generation and equally as fast, and the new DCCD makes the car feel like it drives its self more.... but the car is more comfortable for daily driving so?

Does the 135i have a LSD? I cant seem to find a straight answer?

How do those 6 pot brakes feel on the 135i? Does it throw out the brake balance on the car? it seems like its a whole lot of brake for that car or are appearances deceiving?

I also feel the cost of mods on the 135i would probably discourage me from modding. Are BMW dealerships typically mod friendly? Or is it like Subaru, where it depends on the dealership and you can end up driving 100 miles for a service to a mod friendly dealership.

[2snail]

I was this -> <- close to trading in my 08 135i for an 09 sti hatch. The stock suspension on the 135i is really soft and it definitely shows especially with RFT tires. I changed my RFT to some 225 and 255 tires and that helped improve the overall feel but I still notice the soft suspension.

Coming from a modded wrx you are probably used to that suspension and will notice the softer setup. I don't race people but I do occasionally punch it on onramps and such and my only gripe is the suspension needs to be a tad firmer which I know can be remedied with some coilovers and swaybars. For now Im getting used to the car this is my first RWD I had a modded FWD prelude which was slow as heck but handled decently at autocrosses. I autocrossed my 135i one time with runflats and I definitely need more seat time to learn this car.

[emtrey]

I would imagine Subaru dealers would be more mod friendly than BMW unless it were Dinan mods and/or the dealer did the modding.

Brakes on the 135 are great. Better than E46 M-3 I owned. 135 does not have LSD.
Fair comparison--absolutely. On the track, the E46 would probably be better as the 135 is a bit soft and understeers more than the E46. E46 M-3 alSO were NOT designed around runflats WHICH PROBABLY ACCOUNTS FOR ALOT OF THE "SOFT" SUSPENSION TUNING. They had REAL TIRES.

The E46 M-3 will be a more "edgy" car than the 135 but its also an older generation andmost next generation cars are more refined than the previuous car ( E92 vs E46 M-3 is an example- I hated the E92 M-3 when I tried it) Current 997 Porsches are faster, better handling than 930 Turbos but I would love to own a 930 Turbo. Depends on your needs/driving style.

The S54 engine in the E46 is very strong but I like the 135 twin turbo better. Flatter torque curve, no RASPY engine noise. etc.

Drive em back to back and pick the one that YOU LIKE best.

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by tougerenner

thanks guys.

I guess I really need to drive one. The only thing I guess I am some what concerned with is really how far is the performance gap with the 135i and the e46 m3. I realize it might be a hard comparison being that a 135i with M package is not a true M. Or is there "that much" difference between non M cars with M packages and M cars?

This is a bit of an opinion question but; So currently my thought is I should have bought the STi instead of the WRX, If I went with a 135i over a CPO E46 M3 would end up in the same boat?

Is it fair to compare the 135i to a E46 M3?

The STi I would buy is the new hatch and with that "special edition" that's coming out in early 2010 with the JDM spec C suspension which is stiffer and lower from the factory seems like the ticket for me if I went back to suby. I don't want to argue about what the striped from the car, Im ok with every thing they took out. I have driven the new STi and they are softer and more refined than the previous generation and equally as fast, and the new DCCD makes the car feel like it drives its self more.... but the car is more comfortable for daily driving so?

Does the 135i have a LSD? I cant seem to find a straight answer?

How do those 6 pot brakes feel on the 135i? Does it throw out the brake balance on the car? it seems like its a whole lot of brake for that car or are appearances deceiving?

I also feel the cost of mods on the 135i would probably discourage me from modding. Are BMW dealerships typically mod friendly? Or is it like Subaru, where it depends on the dealership and you can end up driving 100 miles for a service to a mod friendly dealership.

If you want a comparo between the 135i and the e46, it doesn't get much better than this:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/200...-bmw-335i.html

[thesmokingone]

i have gotten so upset with the hpfp issues that i was thinking about switching up to an sti. back in the shop today.

[Muffnbluff]

Originally Posted by emtrey

I think you misread my comments. I have owned 8 BMWs and I know there is NO WAY the BMW would be as reliable as a Subaru. I love BMWs but they can get quite expensive to keep after the warranty. I leased this one and I will let them deal with it when its no longer on their dime.

Ah yes, i did misread it, my bad.

As far as E46 M3 vs 135i...the newest E46 you can get would be a 2006 model, which means even if it's CPO the warranty is gone in two years. They're amazing cars, no doubt about that. But I think the 135i is just a much better daily driver. The torque on these cars practically comes off idle like a V8.

[tougerenner]

Originally Posted by thesmokingone

i have gotten so upset with the hpfp issues that i was thinking about switching up to an sti. back in the shop today.

HPFP??? I googled it quickly so the fuel pumps are failing on the cars? Is the ecu at least smart enought to catch it or do you run the risk of really lean at WOT and damaging the motor? Or is it so bad the car just sputter and won't drive?

[igom3]

I still have my E46M3 for the track use, and I have 09 135 coupe as daily driver. Yet very similar by performance (0-60 etc) are very different cars. 135 is newer technology, more refine piece of engineering and E46 M3 is older generation of M car with incredible S54 engine and great handling. I love E46 on the track and I love 135 as daily driver because m3 is heavily modified and to loud for the street use. Don’t forget that you can get pretty good deals on 02-04 E46M3 now. Go drive both cars and see which one you like better. Again I have the best case scenario. I have them both. Good luck.

[Brahmzy]

I swear the 2010 STi has more turbo lag than my '05 did stock. I was just not at all impressed by the 2010 Sti. I was MORE impressed by the 2010 WRX. It actually felt better / funner to drive. I think 95% sure Subaru is bringing out a sedan model for 2011 and rumors of some significant changes to the car. The current 2010 does absolutely nothing for me, especially at it's price point. Sad to say, 'cause i love Subarus. I think they need to take their top dog car a little more serious if they're asking $39K MSRP for it, IMO. Fix the crappy seats, for one. That has been the #1 complaint since 2004. They have not done a single thing to improve the seats in 6 years on their flagship performer.

As far as anything N/A (M3) - not an option for me at 6,200ft. Those things feel like Hondas up here. Have to have F/I.

[Xyloft]

i came form an 06 sti to my 128. mostly becasue i wanted something more comfortable.

the sport suspension, lower weight, and 50/50 split make my car really fun to drive. not quite "stand on the pedal mid turn and shoot out of the corner" fun, but fun none the less.

[ben14142001]

I had on 05 STi, so I agree with most things said on here about the differences. One that is often overlooked is gas mileage. My 135 is lightyears ahead of my STi. I can get almost 30ish on the highway in the 135 and I could only get low 20's in the STi.

[Bowzyr]

I had a 2005 WRX before my 135i.. It was Cobb stage 2, springs, sways, exhaust, etc.. Decently modded.

I really liked the car a lot.. But the second i test drove the 135i, I fell in LOVE with it.. Like others have said, it is so much more refined than the WRX in every way. If the grunt of your performance driving will be spirited canyon runs, i think a stock 135i would be plenty fun for you.. If you want to do some track duty though, you will quickly see the limits of the stock suspension.. The car definitely much more powerful than it is competent at cornering from the factory.. Not to say its BAD, its just not an M car or a modded WRX in terms of handling.

Oh and I said the same thing about not modding it.. I held off for almost a year, but here I am with JB3, wheels, exhaust, etc... JB3 is incredible.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by ben14142001

I had on 05 STi, so I agree with most things said on here about the differences. One that is often overlooked is gas mileage. My 135 is lightyears ahead of my STi. I can get almost 30ish on the highway in the 135 and I could only get low 20's in the STi.

It gets better as the car ages. Ive been running close to 40 MPG for the past week and a half. The newest software update does wonders for N54 cars, my HPFP problems have also gone away since I got the reprogramming.


And the HPFP has been an issue OP, not gonna lie to you about that. And to answer one of your questions the car will give many warning signs before the thing fails outright (very long start up cranks, rough idle, reduced power...) however, when it fails the engine simply goes into either limp mode (drive 5mph tops) or it just shuts down entirely inorder to protect itself. Occasionally HPFP failure will take out a fuel rail or a turbo with it.