6MT pops out of 1st gear

[ledpocket]

Had the car since x-mas and have had 1st pop into neutral on take off about 10 times

Here's how it goes: Stopped, 1st gear, clutch in. Give it gas, ease off the clutch, car begins to move, engine/tranny under load, at maybe 2500-3000 rpm the gear selector heads from 1st to neutral spontaneously, nice clunk sound, rpm's head to red, my shorts turn brown ;-)

Stopped by my dealer and had a tech drive it around, but he couldn't duplicate my experience. I wasn't surprised, as 10 starts out of 1000's I've made is not a high percentage, but I'm pretty sure even once is a pretty good indication that there is an issue. Appt. made, and off I went.

So, I guess I have a rarer issue than most on here (even though I have had some long cranks, but that was cuz the alcohol ratio in my washer fluid was out of spec, lol)

Anybody have any predictions for me? Am I just a bad driver, or do I have a bum gear?

Guess I'll find out for sure a week from monday. Until then, I'll stay out of 1st as much as possible.

[Dackelone]

I would get it checked out. Could be a broken motor mount or trans mount. Are you a brutal launcher/shifter?

[ledpocket]

Service appointment a week from monday.

I'd say I am 6 or 7 out of 10 when it comes to "spirited" driving. I have 4500 miles on it, and 3000 were winter miles where I really didn't drive it hard. The last few weeks have seen more "practice laps" around town. In either case, I haven't hit the DSC for launches, fully depress the clutch to shift, don't pop the clutch, etc.

The tranny problem showed up early, first time it popped out was a week or 10 days after delivery. I just thought I was doing it the first few times, but after trying enough starts with my hand nowhere near the shifter, I quit blaming myself.

I have no other gears that do this, no grinding into 2nd (or any other gears), reverse is no problem.

I suspect that there are 1 or 2 specific gear teeth that just don't line up right, are chipped, warped, out of tolerance or whatever...and when they end up synchronized they spit the car into neutral.

Dackelone, I will mention mounts to the tech. I read (your?) thread on that issue, and thinking about it, this may have always happened on a slight incline. At least twice, anyway, I remember exactly where it happened and was on a slight uphill grade. Could be enough to cause the engine to move a bit, I guess. Thanks

[Lester]

Are you saying it disengages with your hand off the knob? Or while you have it on? I am never with hand off while in first becasue I am immediatly shifting into second almost every time.

[ledpocket]

I usually keep my hand on the stick through third. Not a death grip, but touching it. I first thought I was pulling it out of gear maybe. But when it's in, no light pressure pulls it out.

To test that, I would not even touch the shifter on take off. It pops out by itself.

[tgxmike]

Originally Posted by Lester

Are you saying it disengages with your hand off the knob? Or while you have it on? I am never with hand off while in first becasue I am immediatly shifting into second almost every time.

I was taught to remove my hand as soon as the car is in gear, because it can add unnecessary stress to the transmission. This sounds like a real issue and I would def try to have BMW look at it. With so few miles on the car I don't think your personal driving habits (weather good or bad) could have already affected the transmission.

Intermittent problems always suck to diagnose.

[ianc]

Based on my experience with Porsches, you might inquire with the dealer whether there is a procedure to adjust the shifter in the car. If so, this may affect the engagement you get, and it may be worth having them go through the procedure...

If there isn't one and there are no broken mounts, then I suspect it may get worse until they give you a new transmission...

ianc

[ledpocket]

I'll ask about that too, thanks.

When I made the appointment for service, I did it by just showing up at my dealer, wandering to the service area, and grabbing the first SA. He grabbed a tech, who took it for a drive. The tech didn't replicate the problem, but he also gave me no indication he thought I was full of crap. He just said he had to get it on the computer to prove I brought it in for a problem. (This particular tech recommends driving BMW's like they were built to be driven. Liberal application of acceleration, lol)

I could have gotten an earlier appointment, but without a loaner. Figured if they found something I'd be better off having their car while we waited for parts to show up.

Possibilities are:
1- a gear is damaged (my guess)
2- engine / tranny mounts
3- a simple adjustment
4- hallucinations

Thanks for your feedback.

[stevenc]

Clearly your not fully engaging first gear. Whether its your shifting style or whether it a shifter setting i don't not know.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by tgxmike

I was taught to remove my hand as soon as the car is in gear, because it can add unnecessary stress to the transmission. .

That works, except you are normally in first for such a short time, there isn't really time to take your hand off the shifter knob.

[Dackelone]

You might ask the dealer IF they can loosen the motor & trans mounts. Start the car a few times with the mounts loose... then they can retighten everything. That normally does the trick. I sincerely "hope" it is the mounts or the gear gate adjustment.

You should never leave your hand on the shifter. Will cause premature tranny wear.

Btw... when a manual trans pops out of high gear... it is normally due to low gear fluid level. Six gear sits higher in the (most) gear box. That is not the case with your car. Just FYI.

Good Luck,
David

[ledpocket]

Brought it in today.

Tech got a long crank, updated the software for HPFP. Tomorrow they will replace the pump if the flash didn't cure it. Interesting that the SA said there is no need for a "case" like on the coupes. Surprised him to not need permission from the motherland to replace it for a vert.

Because the tech didn't pop the car into neutral on his brief test drive (he apparently got excited to work on another HPFP) I'm going to guess they won't tear the tranny apart. I reiterated the problem to the SA, but don't really have high hopes for an answer on this visit...

OT, I love my 135! The 328i loaner feels like a chevy citation in comparison.

[Dackelone]

Before you give up the loaner... you should drop by the dealer and go for a ride with the SA or tech. SHOW THEM what the trans does - and how it pops out of gear. This also might work out for you better bc maybe the car will have a long crank too.

Good Luck,
David

[ledpocket]

I went for a ride with a tech the day I posted...no pops.

Hasn't popped since that day (4-9-10). Only happened 9 or 10 times total since the 1st of the year.

I'm guessing that I start out in 1st about 50 times a day. times 100 days or so of ownership...less than 1% of my starts (take offs) show the problem. I don't have a lot of confidence that they will ever experience the problem happen. I only hope that they will eventually take it apart and SEE something amiss.

Dackelone, your input is very appreciated. I'll try to "pop" in on them in the morning

[escobar929]

Originally Posted by stevenc

Clearly your not fully engaging first gear. Whether its your shifting style or whether it a shifter setting i don't not know.

i agree w/ this, i see no other reason why it would pop out in 1st.

if its the gear selector, see if you could get a free ssk out of it

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by escobar929

i agree w/ this, i see no other reason why it would pop out in 1st.

if its the gear selector, see if you could get a free ssk out of it

I do! It is either a linkage problem like a bad motor mount allowing the linkage to get pulled on, as the engine torques OR... more likey... a bent or damage internal component. Like.... the metal cradle that slide the desired gear sets into place - inside the trans.

BMW has had problems in the past with bad trannys. It is not a common thing... but... just look at the e36 with the 5th gear detent spring problems.

bye,
David

[ledpocket]

I picked up the car and the SA told me they could not reproduce the issue, but checked everything out and it's all to spec. They will continue to monitor the issue.

A very nice way of telling me to learn how to drive

He described the new hpfp as the latest, and hasn't heard of it failing.

It's funny how many smiles I got from the service guys. And a couple compliments on the car. It is hot. And hopefully they all got a turn trying to get 1st gear to pop. lol.

I'll try to catch a video of the problem for the next trip in. If I don't ever post about this again, please assume I successfully learned how to drive a stick

[sparoz]

Sorry to revive an old thread - but it just happened to me today, and I never had problems before. Same symptoms, gear in, gas, loud thud, and I am in neutral.

Ledpocket - did you have any resolution on this?

[dtwyim]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Sorry to revive an old thread - but it just happened to me today, and I never had problems before. Same symptoms, gear in, gas, loud thud, and I am in neutral.

Ledpocket - did you have any resolution on this?

I have had this problem before when the car was newer. I find that sometimes I feel more resistance going into 1st from N at a stand still. Never had any problem in other gears. Does not seem to get any better even if the car is completely warmed up. The times it popped out from 1st I attributed to me not engaging 1st completely because of the resistance that I felt. Sometimes I would go back into N and than go back into 1st again and it would feel more engaged.

[ledpocket]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Sorry to revive an old thread - but it just happened to me today, and I never had problems before. Same symptoms, gear in, gas, loud thud, and I am in neutral.

Ledpocket - did you have any resolution on this?

Sorry, haven't been on the forums in a bit...

No, BMW service never replicated the problem, and found no cause for it.

I've had the car 15 months and it still does it every once in a while. Starting on an incline or hitting a bump on take off account for maybe half of the occurrences. I'm going to guess I'm up to 30 times it has popped out. A more accurate description would be "thrown out" of 1st into neutral.

I'll argue that some of the times could have been my rusty MT driving, but after a year, and conscious effort to not be a sloppy shifter into 1st, there is definitely something wrong with the car. My guess is that there is something out of spec on the gear train, and it only happens when aligned a certain way. In other words, a certain tooth of the gear meshing with another tooth on the next gear...and they probably only mesh with each other 1 in 1000 times. And of those times, I might shift before the pressure is great enough to pop it out (mostly). Every once in a while, the perfect storm.

Or, I totally suck at driving

The inclines and the bumps make me think Dackelone's idea about the motor mounts might be right, but the service guy said he checked everything. Also, it has happened on flat, smooth, level ground.

Cold weather also seems to contribute. I drive the car year round, and more pops have happened in the cold months than the warm. Thermal expansion could be part of the issue as well.

In any event, it is so random and sporadic that I gave up worrying about it. 99+% of the time it behaves. If something actually breaks, or the frequency becomes unbearable, then I'll chase the service dept for a fix.

[JHOOPS2]

If this was a mustang I would say slightly bent shift fork.