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      02-10-2010, 12:17 PM   #1
amdmaxx
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M1 vs competition

It's that time of the year again.
Competition is good for everyone.

I'll start:
2011 Ford GT500 seems to be a monster. New aluminum block is 120 lb lighter.. 550hp/510lb/ft torque.
New suspension so finally Ford Mustarg will handle.


Corvette Grant Sport

370Z might get DI and around 370 hp in a year or 2..


Yes BMW is German, yes M is legendary.. etc.. This is purely subjective topic.

Last edited by amdmaxx; 02-10-2010 at 10:01 PM.
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      02-10-2010, 12:28 PM   #2
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I have been debating lately between an m1 or a hpf stage 3 m3
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      02-10-2010, 12:39 PM   #3
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I wonder what market segment BMW is attacking with the M1.
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      02-10-2010, 01:03 PM   #4
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The new Ford 302 looks to be a beast of engine. A specific HP rating of over 80 HP/L is fantastic. I cant imagine what it will be like once Shelby gets their hands on it.

I would think that the performance oriented BMW owner would only be looking at the 1 because it is a 2+2, hence why I think that the Mustang will be competition, and the 370Z/Vette wont be.

But until the M1 actually comes out its all speculation, hell we dont even have exact number on anything at this point.
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      02-10-2010, 01:27 PM   #5
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I keep forgetting the price points of these cars will be very close. Wow, wow, wow. Personally, I think it's the M1's goal to mop the floor with any and everything under the 50k map. I wont be surprised to see reputable tuners reaching for 500hp quite easily.
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      02-10-2010, 01:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
370Z might get DI and around 370 hp in a year or 2..
Now that would be pretty sweet.
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      02-10-2010, 02:51 PM   #7
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The cobra's live rear axle instantly disqualifies it from consideration.
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      02-10-2010, 03:34 PM   #8
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The Ford is to big to be a fun-car. The Nissan looks shit. I would compare BMW M1 with Porsche Cayman S. Maybe Porsche will bring out a Cayman RS.
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      02-10-2010, 04:07 PM   #9
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Its like deja vu...
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      02-10-2010, 04:10 PM   #10
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GT500 is 550 hp stock! And it's around $43k loaded. $3k more for performance package. Was listening to autoblog podcast, they raved about it.
Another thing to throw into fire: CTS-V coupe.. But's it's more money.. Probably will start @ 65k...



Quote:
Originally Posted by BForbes View Post
I keep forgetting the price points of these cars will be very close. Wow, wow, wow. Personally, I think it's the M1's goal to mop the floor with any and everything under the 50k map. I wont be surprised to see reputable tuners reaching for 500hp quite easily.

Last edited by amdmaxx; 02-10-2010 at 10:02 PM.
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      02-10-2010, 04:42 PM   #11
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The Audi RS3 will give the M1 a good run for its money. If it came in a coupe or sedan I'm sure there'd be many who'd switch over. Apparently Benz is coming out with something as well. Should be interesting. The M1 will be good because it's already got a good base to start with, hopefully it'll address all the issues of the 135i and make it a hardcore sports car.
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      02-10-2010, 04:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The Ford is to big to be a fun-car. The Nissan looks shit. I would compare BMW M1 with Porsche Cayman S. Maybe Porsche will bring out a Cayman RS.
I would love to think that the M1 would be on level with the Cayman S...man that is one sweet ride....

It would be a great comparison though.....
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      02-10-2010, 04:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oasis3582 View Post
The cobra's live rear axle instantly disqualifies it from consideration.
I don't understand why some would dismiss certain cars from a discussion because of different technology. If a vehicle competes in a given market then its a contender.
Corvettes with their 1950's technology V8 Smallblocks and transverse mounted leaf springs and Mustangs with live axles are cars to be taken seriously when talking Performance cars. And it looks as if the Mustang is going to do very well and leave alot of snooty independent suspension afficinatos scratching their heads.
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      02-10-2010, 05:20 PM   #14
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Most people think that BMW will deliberately make the M1/1M worse then the M3 so that it doesn't affect M3 sales but what if they are waiting to see what success Porsche might have with their Boxter Spyder.... purpose built lightweight car that will be cheaper than a base 911... what if they will surprise us all with a super-light 1 to compete with Porsche's baby racer... HMMMM
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      02-10-2010, 06:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I don't understand why some would dismiss certain cars from a discussion because of different technology.
Here is an excellent reason to dismiss any car with live rear axle:

Without independent suspension, the alignment cannot be changed to add negative camber (you have 0 degrees camber all the time - inherent in that design). So, if you want to drive at the track you will instantly destroy the outer shoulders of your tires. Live axles are only usable on the street and drag strip - road course use highly inappropriate, imo.
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      02-10-2010, 06:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Here is an excellent reason to dismiss any car with live rear axle:

Without independent suspension, the alignment cannot be changed to add negative camber (you have 0 degrees camber all the time - inherent in that design). So, if you want to drive at the track you will instantly destroy the outer shoulders of your tires. Live axles are only usable on the street and drag strip - road course use highly inappropriate, imo.
Racing cars with live axles on road courses goes back a long way, including the famous Trans Am series. To dismiss an entire class of cars because they wear their tires out is nonsense,imo. All race cars wear out tires and brakes, thats what they do. Thats what keeps pit crews off unemployment lines. I haven't read a review of the 135 that doesnt complain of horrendous understeer on a road track and the brakes are often mentioned and sub par for track use and the high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase and power falling off after 5K RPM......
Maybe the 135 should be put on the racing garbage heap next to the Mustang.
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      02-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #17
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I won't own any sportscar that I don't frequently drive at the local road course. Of course all cars wear their tires and brakes at the track, but not at the same rate.

I had a good friend with a Mustang GT racecar and it went through a set of Hoosiers every day due to the live axle (corded the outer shoulders after a couple hours each time). My Porsche goes through track tires every 15 track days and keeps its brake pads for about 30 track days. I can't afford to spend $2,000 every track day (I go to the track about 25 times per season).

A 135i can be easily tuned to dial-out the understeer (swaybars and alignment). A Mustang cannot be easily cured of its issues.
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      02-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #18
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But until the M1 actually comes out its all speculation, hell we dont even have exact number on anything at this point.
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      02-10-2010, 07:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I won't own any sportscar that I don't frequently drive at the local road course. Of course all cars wear their tires and brakes at the track, but not at the same rate.

I had a good friend with a Mustang GT racecar and it went through a set of Hoosiers every day due to the live axle (corded the outer shoulders after a couple hours each time). My Porsche goes through track tires every 15 track days and keeps its brake pads for about 30 track days. I can't afford to spend $2,000 every track day (I go to the track about 25 times per season).

A 135i can be easily tuned to dial-out the understeer (swaybars and alignment). A Mustang cannot be easily cured of its issues.
I know plenty of guys who have tracked Mustangs before and have owned two myself over the years and never heard of tires getting gobbled up like that before. And there are thousands of lightly modded Pony cars winning lots of races all over the Country. We agree to disagree, To each his own.
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      02-10-2010, 07:54 PM   #20
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Cayman S is the best car Porsche makes, despite not getting their best engines.
I really hope M1 will be the best car BMW makes, kinda like most of us would prefer M3 over M5 currently.

Quote:
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Most people think that BMW will deliberately make the M1/1M worse then the M3 so that it doesn't affect M3 sales but what if they are waiting to see what success Porsche might have with their Boxter Spyder.... purpose built lightweight car that will be cheaper than a base 911... what if they will surprise us all with a super-light 1 to compete with Porsche's baby racer... HMMMM
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      02-10-2010, 08:29 PM   #21
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I think the M1 will fix the understeer, high center of gravity; and the power falling off below 5k is not even an issue with current tunes.
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      02-10-2010, 08:43 PM   #22
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The only competitors I see against the M1 would be:

* Porsche Cayman S
* Audi TTRS

That is it... Audi is faster, looks better. I just read a review in TG Australia which comared the Audi vs Cayman S, and they likes the Audi better. Was faster, gave more confidence, easier to drive etc. And I think it's cheaper too?
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