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      11-06-2010, 09:59 PM   #67
MrBlonde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
..
I was just wondering, have you considered maybe dropping in an aftermarket intake to possibly try and crack the 300rwkw? I'm aware the Aussie dynos read a lot lower and I've never been absolutely sure whether there are substantial gains but it's worth a shot (not that you need that power though lol!) Also, I'd imagine if you were really trying to squeeze out all the extra ponies you could try a bigger fmic. Also, does the CPE exhaust have any restrictions ie. mufflers, cats? If it were me I wouldn't bother but if you really wanted to crack the 300rwkw that's probably your best bet for now. As you said, the bolt-ons don't really do much for overall gains when weighing up the power to cost ratio but I think they help support engine in pumping out this much power, especially if it's your daily driver. Better airflow, cooler air, less restrictive exhaust will all help in the long term.
Thanks for the comments!

It's interesting, I did some research on aftermarket intakes and I'm not convinced any of them give any performance improvements over the OEM setup.

I'm unconcerned about the 300 rwkw mark, the car makes what it makes as it is. It's just a number!

The car has full boltons as it stands. I've got the Evolution Racewerks intercooler so there's no need for anything larger. The CP-E exhaust has no cats but does have mufflers or else it would be too loud for a street car! It also has ER charge pipe with blowoff valve.

The car is optimal from my point of view in terms of engine and supporting mods, I don't see any other changes on the horizon.

There ain't nothin' left to do!
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      11-06-2010, 10:03 PM   #68
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So what time are you estimating? low 12's, high 11's?
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      11-06-2010, 10:05 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
Thanks for the comments!

It's interesting, I did some research on aftermarket intakes and I'm not convinced any of them give any performance improvements over the OEM setup.

I'm unconcerned about the 300 rwkw mark, the car makes what it makes as it is. It's just a number!

The car has full boltons as it stands. I've got the Evolution Racewerks intercooler so there's no need for anything larger. The CP-E exhaust has no cats but does have mufflers or else it would be too loud for a street car! It also has ER charge pipe with blowoff valve.

The car is optimal from my point of view in terms of engine and supporting mods, I don't see any other changes on the horizon.

There ain't nothin' left to do!
Does the ER FMIC come with upgraded intercooler piping or are you using the stock piping to run up to the ER charge pipe? I see the ER charge pipe makes use of c-clips into their design. Nice product, not sure if I should hang out for HPF or not..
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      11-06-2010, 10:27 PM   #70
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So what time are you estimating? low 12's, high 11's?
BBK I've been drag racing for a long time! Long enough to know you never guess at an ET before you try it for the first time in that car!
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      11-06-2010, 10:28 PM   #71
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This car should be well into the 11s providing he can get all that power to the ground, perhaps an LSD is in order?
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      11-07-2010, 01:01 AM   #72
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Quote:
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This car should be well into the 11s providing he can get all that power to the ground, perhaps an LSD is in order?
+1. With SO much power going to the rear wheels, I would think this is an excellent investment.

Kenny, do you have any torque numbers for the car with just PROcede? That's something I'm interested in.
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      11-07-2010, 05:58 PM   #73
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Not sure how much drag racing you guys have done, but if you take a car that is capable of 11s with optimal tyres and driver, and then alter the tyres and/or driver, you can have massive losses in the time achieved (like >1s). However the MPH you achieve will not change much. Kenny has ALOT more driving experience than most, so I think it is pretty optimal in that regard... but with stock run flats and no LSD, I don't expect an 11. I think a mid 12 is more realistic.... but don't take this as making excuses... this is just the way it is with drag racing. The real test of the capability of the car is in the MPH. With the power it is making, it should pass 120+ MPH which is supercar territory. From the MPH you can then take a guess at what it would achieve with drag radials with a good 60 foot. I have not doubt the car would do an 11 with drag radials and LSD, but don't get the hopes up on street tyres.

Moral of post.... Elapsed time (ET) over 400m will have more to do with grip than power. MPH over 400m has more to do with power than grip. I think a stock 135i with drag radials, could probably do a quicker (lower ET) pass than a powerful 135I on street tyres.

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      11-08-2010, 01:35 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
Does the ER FMIC come with upgraded intercooler piping or are you using the stock piping to run up to the ER charge pipe? I see the ER charge pipe makes use of c-clips into their design. Nice product, not sure if I should hang out for HPF or not..
In my experience HPF product development is very slow, especially for the RHD market. The final products look top shelf to me. My advice would be to choose other products that are currently available, by the time HPF starts selling RHD products you will most likely have moved off the 82 platform and on to something new.

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This car should be well into the 11s providing he can get all that power to the ground, perhaps an LSD is in order?
I've held an ANDRA Unlimited Drag Racing Licence (UDL) since 2003 and put down a fair few passes. In my experience people that race don't talk about what they are going to do, they talk about what they've done.

By contrast the internet is full of people who have never raced, who will never race and nevertheless have very strong opinions on all aspects of racing!

If you twisted my arm and asked me what I think my 135 can run in it's current setup, I'd say I think it can run into the 12 second zone .. somewhere between 12.000 and 12.999. Just based on what people in the US and in Australia have run.

As any reader who has followed this thread would know, I take it a step at a time and I document the facts at each stage. I add mods and then get a power run on the dyno to prove what the result was.

So with drag racing I'll take my 135 to the drag strip, get a raceweight so I know how much the car (plus me) weighs on the pass and then get some timeslips. With say eight or ten timeslips I would be very confident of saying I know the car's potential for trap speed at that track on that day with the ambient conditions.

Now WSID is my local track and the air there is usually Density Altitude of say 1,000' during the good (Winter) months. I've been there when the DA is over 3,200'. WSID gets Sydney inland weather and that means hot, humid and nowhere near sea level. What that means is a big disadvantage comapred to some US tracks like Atco, E-Town, etc. Those racetracks have DA below sea level (ie DA of -1,000') regularly and because of the far greater frequency of top fueller meets the strip is well coated with nice sticky rubber. By contrast WSID is only prepped twice or maybe three times a year.

Also my car is full weight .. in fact it's got a rollcage so it's heavier than stock, and it runs the stock diff (no LSD), stock suspension setup, stock wheels and stock runflat tyres. Then again I am running the stock 6 speed manual transmission. These are all huge disadvantages compared to the leading US guys who run tricked automatic tranny, Kosei K1 drag wheels with Hoosier or Mickey Thompson slicks, semi gutted interiors, tweaked suspension, nitrous, etc, etc.

So you can't look at the leading US ETs and think that I can reproduce them here. quite simply I'm not going to!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
+1. With SO much power going to the rear wheels, I would think this is an excellent investment.

Kenny, do you have any torque numbers for the car with just PROcede? That's something I'm interested in.
JB: Yes an LSD would be my next mod if my piggy bank ever gets any more coins rattling around in it! Currently the car will trigger traction control under acceleration in the first three gears. I don't mean chirping the tyres on a fast gear change, I mean the car is pulling the tyres through under acceleration.

Please look at my earlier dyno sheets for more information on the PROcede results for my car. Or even better ask Adrian at Vishnu Australia or Peter at Advan performance who do the tuning on my car.

I can tell you that a stock 135 with just a PROcede is a weapon!


Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Not sure how much drag racing you guys have done, but if you take a car that is capable of 11s with optimal tyres and driver, and then alter the tyres and/or driver, you can have massive losses in the time achieved (like >1s). However the MPH you achieve will not change much. Kenny has ALOT more driving experience than most, so I think it is pretty optimal in that regard... but with stock run flats and no LSD, I don't expect an 11. I think a mid 12 is more realistic.... but don't take this as making excuses... this is just the way it is with drag racing. The real test of the capability of the car is in the MPH. With the power it is making, it should pass 120+ MPH which is supercar territory. From the MPH you can then take a guess at what it would achieve with drag radials with a good 60 foot. I have not doubt the car would do an 11 with drag radials and LSD, but don't get the hopes up on street tyres.

Moral of post.... Elapsed time (ET) over 400m will have more to do with grip than power. MPH over 400m has more to do with power than grip. I think a stock 135i with drag radials, could probably do a quicker (lower ET) pass than a powerful 135I on street tyres.
Adrian: Agreed totally.

In my drag racing I have experimented extensively with very hard launches and very soft launches. I've even rolled my car off the line after missing a gear, taken a few seconds to reselect the correct gear and carried on. My car would obtain almost identical trap speeds with a blistering launch vs a 2 second bumble at the start line.

Conclusion: trap speed is an excellent indicator of the vehicle's power.

BUT the ET you get is highly dependent on many factors: the rubber you use, the skill of the driver, the track preparation, the weather, etc, etc.

That's why, if you know the raceweight of a car, all you need is the average trap speed over say ten passes .. and you can get a really accurate idea of the vehicle's power. This is why they say "the big black dyno never lies" because you can fudge a dyno sheet all day and night, but the trap speed is plain for everyone to see!
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      11-08-2010, 02:07 AM   #75
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ill get back to you both after next Wednesday night providing I get no check engine lights at willowbank

going from the run flats to the yokohama s drives recently I do understand where your coming from in regards to traction especially with a car that has as much power as yours. I didnt actually realise that you had a roll cage or run flats. I did see a JB3 MT 135 with semi slicks run a 12.6 last time so tires must make a huge difference from 11k worth of mods.
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      11-08-2010, 02:20 AM   #76
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ill get back to you both after next Wednesday night providing I get no check engine lights at willowbank

going from the run flats to the yokohama s drives recently I do understand where your coming from in regards to traction especially with a car that has as much power as yours. I didnt actually realise that you had a roll cage or run flats. I did see a JB3 MT 135 with semi slicks run a 12.6 last time so tires must make a huge difference from 11k worth of mods.
Good to see you're going out try it for yourself, it might open your eyes!

With the rubber there's some drag racing basics to understand: A good ET is all about the launch. And a good 60' time is all about how you get out of the hole.

The best launch is from rubber that has the tallest sidewall, allowing the tyre to absorb the shock through the suspension and maintain a good contact patch with the track. That's why drag racing slicks are predominantly 15" rim .. and not 18" like circuit rubber.

Runflats are the absolute WORST rubber you can have for drag racing because the sidewalls are very stiff. That's why even a basic replacement non RF tyre will outperform the OEM RF every time.

Some people make the mistake of trying R compound circuit tyres for drag racing, thinking the stickier rubber will help. The rubber IS stickier, but again the sidewalls are very stiff for the lateral forces a circuit places on the tyre. Consequently these tyres are also shit for drag racing.

I knew as soon as I posted the actual costs of my project I'd get some negative comments back. The amounts I posted include the FULL costs of my mods. Buying the parts, shipping them to Australia, clearing them through customs and then paying someone to install them. That includes a significant cost for the rollcage which required many hours to fit into the interior (modification to the carpets, etc). All of which costs money and which I dutifully reported here.

You'll notice that very very few people actually detail what they've done and how much it really costs. There is a reason for that.

So in reply to your remark about a simple JB car running 12.6 .. good on him!
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      11-08-2010, 02:32 AM   #77
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I didn't realise you were on the stock run flat tyres either Kenny. Good luck with that lol. Tyres made a huge difference for me. I'm surprised you feel comfortable going over 140km/hr let alone doing the 400m in your 300rwkw weapon on those bloody things. I've added coilovers and decent rubber and now the car feels solid and planted all the way to infinity, and I don't have to worry about traction as much too. I must admit the RFT's are quite good for what they are when there is plenty of tread but going high speeds on stock suspension the car felt choppy and at times unpredictable. It wasn't confidence inspiring. Anyways, sorry for my rant. Hopefully you can hook up the tyres on the track and get some clean launches but I still think you will spin through the first couple gears trying to put that power down. Good luck though! You can only get better mate.
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      11-08-2010, 02:51 AM   #78
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I appreciate the tips Mr Blond, sorry if I came across the wrong way. I have read your drag racing 101 thread about 6 times, well most of it anyway so I would hope that I have at least some of the theory covered. If I can translate that into a good time remains to be seen. I do know that a good launch is essential to a good time which is why I went to willowbank last time and only watched because I had bald run flats. This time I have some decent rubber so I am prepared to give it a go, fingers crossed!
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      11-08-2010, 11:14 AM   #79
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Kenny, didn't know you were still rocking the stock runflats! Replacement of these should definitely be on top of your mod list

I can already feel their inadequacy with just a PROcede and nothing else. Lovin' the parity with the USD right now and the prices offered on tirerack.com.

As for the detailed list and cost of the mods on your car, I think it was a very helpful insight on how to obtain a tastefully done up stealth weapon It allows us mere mortals to dream...
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      11-08-2010, 05:55 PM   #80
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As for the detailed list and cost of the mods on your car, I think it was a very helpful insight on how to obtain a tastefully done up stealth weapon It allows us mere mortals to dream...
+ 1

This thread should be made a sticky. It gives a real insight into what the power mods are for this car with the facts to back it up. There's so much info in these forums and you can spend unlimited hours researching but this project gets right to the point saves a lot of time.
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      11-08-2010, 09:55 PM   #81
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edit: I'll be happy to make some comparitive comments once I have a few issues sorted out with my car...
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      11-09-2010, 12:41 AM   #82
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MrB, not sure if you mentioned this before, but wanted to ask why you went with the roll cage? Safety thing if you run down the track or was it to stiffen up the car?

My 12.862 @ 111mph was done with stock run flats and only a JB3 and an intake (which most people claim to have no effect). The same night that car mentioned by Orlin ran the 12.6 with semi's and race fuel.
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      11-09-2010, 12:58 AM   #83
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is mr BBK coming on the 17th?
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      11-09-2010, 04:24 AM   #84
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Haha, not sure... We'll see :-)
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      11-10-2010, 02:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
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I didn't realise you were on the stock run flat tyres either Kenny. Good luck with that lol. Tyres made a huge difference for me. I'm surprised you feel comfortable going over 140km/hr let alone doing the 400m in your 300rwkw weapon on those bloody things. I've added coilovers and decent rubber and now the car feels solid and planted all the way to infinity, and I don't have to worry about traction as much too. I must admit the RFT's are quite good for what they are when there is plenty of tread but going high speeds on stock suspension the car felt choppy and at times unpredictable. It wasn't confidence inspiring. Anyways, sorry for my rant. Hopefully you can hook up the tyres on the track and get some clean launches but I still think you will spin through the first couple gears trying to put that power down. Good luck though! You can only get better mate.
BMW86: Hehe yeah the runflats are a bunch of fun! Dumbest idea ever from BMW and the other car manufacturers. I'll be swapping them out as soon as they are used up or I get sick of them.

I have no expectation of pulling a 1.6 60' time with these. I think it will be challenge to beat 2.0 to be honest.
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      11-10-2010, 02:06 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin View Post
I appreciate the tips Mr Blond, sorry if I came across the wrong way. I have read your drag racing 101 thread about 6 times, well most of it anyway so I would hope that I have at least some of the theory covered. If I can translate that into a good time remains to be seen. I do know that a good launch is essential to a good time which is why I went to willowbank last time and only watched because I had bald run flats. This time I have some decent rubber so I am prepared to give it a go, fingers crossed!
No mate I was SOL the other day when I replied, I just had a day where my boss and my boss's boss chewed me out over something that was outside my control. Gotta love working for a living!

I'm so glad you found the drag racing 101 useful, I will update it specifically for our cars after I've got some real life experience to add value.

Good luck with it and have fun!
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      11-10-2010, 02:08 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
Kenny, didn't know you were still rocking the stock runflats! Replacement of these should definitely be on top of your mod list

I can already feel their inadequacy with just a PROcede and nothing else. Lovin' the parity with the USD right now and the prices offered on tirerack.com.

As for the detailed list and cost of the mods on your car, I think it was a very helpful insight on how to obtain a tastefully done up stealth weapon It allows us mere mortals to dream...
JB: Yeah for sure, however I want to upgrade my wheels too so I'll probably wait until I do the whole lot at once. Just a money limitation unfortunately. As we all know the sky is the limit when modding cars and you've got to draw the line somewhere.

Our AUD vs USD is great right now, I'm sorely tempted to make some purchases but again I want to keep my play spending to a reasonable level and as you can see I've punished the piggybank recently!

I do hope my factual documentation helps others to make good choices or at least helps someone out there formulate their own plans for a 135.
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      11-10-2010, 02:09 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW86 View Post
..
This thread should be made a sticky. It gives a real insight into what the power mods are for this car with the facts to back it up. There's so much info in these forums and you can spend unlimited hours researching but this project gets right to the point saves a lot of time.
I'm flattered you think so. I do agree there are a lot of "butt dyno" comments about how a fancy air intake made +100 rwhp but very little solid information.
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