Girls obviously know what's up with handling, right?

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by BTM

As far as handling goes the SVT Focus is a very tossable, predictable car that will surprise you with how much momentum you can maintain through corners. I've been on some very spirited drives on mountain roads in Tucson and I walked away impressed. I believe the only mod the car had was stiffer anti roll bars.

The RS is almost laughable, putting 300hp through the front wheels does NOT make for the best handling, no matter how hard they try and engineer the front suspension geometry. On paper the RS looks good, but people with first hand experience with the car echo these same sentiments (EVO, Car, etc)

Ford Focus RS ran Nürburgring lap time in 8:26, same as 335i, S5, & 350z. All driven by same person.

[Ofmalik]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

I hate you BMW faggots that think your piece of shit is the car of the gods. It's an overpriced piece of fancy leather seats wrapped in metal. Get over yourself."

sounds like the broken dream of someone who has always wanted to own one and/or a person just realizing they'll never be able to own one

[BTM]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

Ford Focus RS ran Nürburgring lap time in 8:26, same as 335i, S5, & 350z. All driven by same person.

All on the same rubber? I don't think so

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by BTM

All on the same rubber? I don't think so

Pretty sure it came with the car from production.

Why didn't BMW design a better car/ put better tires on the 335i?

[BTM]

What I am getting at is that unless those cars were all running the same tire, the results are misleading. There is a reason that the 335 comes with less sticky rubber than the Focus RS's Continentals, it has a completely different purpose and target market...it is not the ultra high performance model of the 3 series line. The only way to objectively compare chassis is to eliminate tires as a variable.

[b0bab0i]

Same can be said about size of wheels, engine, suspension. But BMW is usually touted as being "the Ultimate Driving Machine", so you would think they would put better tires instead of RFTs. I guess they are used to please the majority of BMW owners, who buy BMW's for status symbol and convenience amenities.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by BTM

What I am getting at is that unless those cars were all running the same tire, the results are misleading. There is a reason that the 335 comes with less sticky rubber than the Focus RS's Continentals, it has a completely different purpose and target market...it is not the ultra high performance model of the 3 series line. The only way to objectively compare chassis is to eliminate tires as a variable.

Then all the times at the ring or any other test done by anyone, anywhere are worthless?. You will never get all the cars to use the same tires and same size for many reasons.

Driver, road conditions, atmospheric conditions all have as much impact.

[PINeely]

So whats the big deal? Take her and her daddy's girl Mustang out to the track and show her what handling's all about.

[DimSum]

Lmao Shes Mad.

[CollinsE90]

Tell her that she can go for the guys who drive mustangs(because they aren't pussy cars) and enjoy living in a double wide the rest of her life. Actually multiple double wides due to her 5 divorces, but hey at least she will have a real man in her life, or 7

tell her she knows nothing about handling, and ask her where her MANLY cars are on this list of Nurburgring top lap times are?

7:32 - Porsche Carrera GT (7:32.44)
7:44 - Zonda
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 - Porsche Gt3 RS (sport tyres)
7:50 - M3 CSL (sport tyres)
7:52 - GT3 (381hp)
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo
7:52 - Lamborghini Murcielao
7:52 - Mercedes SLR mclaren
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 - 360 stradale (sport tyres)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension)
8:07 - Ferrari 550
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version)
8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2
8:18 - Ferrari F355
8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP
8:28 - Porsche 993 C2
8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S
8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG
8:38 - Honda NSX
8:39 - Honda S2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette
8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP
8:42 - Lotus Exige
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430

hell show her my post and have her create an account and ill tell her whats up

[ptack]

Very classy.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Tell her that she can go for the guys who drive mustangs(because they aren't pussy cars) and enjoy living in a double wide the rest of her life. Actually multiple double wides due to her 5 divorces, but hey at least she will have a real man in her life, or 7

tell her she knows nothing about handling, and ask her where her MANLY cars are on this list of Nurburgring top lap times are?

7:32 - Porsche Carrera GT (7:32.44)
7:44 - Zonda
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 - Porsche Gt3 RS (sport tyres)
7:50 - M3 CSL (sport tyres)
7:52 - GT3 (381hp)
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo
7:52 - Lamborghini Murcielao
7:52 - Mercedes SLR mclaren
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 - 360 stradale (sport tyres)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension)
8:07 - Ferrari 550
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version)
8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2
8:18 - Ferrari F355
8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP
8:28 - Porsche 993 C2
8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S
8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG
8:38 - Honda NSX
8:39 - Honda S2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette
8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP
8:42 - Lotus Exige
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430

hell show her my post and have her create an account and ill tell her whats up

No 335i in that list either - so what now? (many faster numbers at the ring also BTW)

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

No 335i in that list either - so what now? (many faster numbers at the ring also BTW)

I wasn't defending the 335, i was defending the fact that a BMW handles better than a POS mustang and the dumb bitch who has been told different...2 American made cars in that whole list. and the 2 are the most expensive ones the company has

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

I wasn't defending the 335, i was defending the fact that a BMW handles better than a POS mustang and the dumb bitch who has been told different...2 American made cars in that whole list. and the 2 are the most expensive ones the company has

The 335 was the car discussed by the OP and is not what I consider a great handling car. It is a great daily driver road sedan and nothing more.

Keep in mind that while the american cars listed are the "most" expensive ones the company has, they are still equal to and far less expensive than some of the BMW's on that list.

For 2011, it is a whole different story with the muscle cars, especially ford. Right now the new Mustang is the best Bang for the buck out there.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

The 335 was the car discussed by the OP and is not what I consider a great handling car. It is a great daily driver road sedan and nothing more.

Keep in mind that while the american cars listed are the "most" expensive ones the company has, they are still equal to and far less expensive than some of the BMW's on that list.

For 2011, it is a whole different story with the muscle cars, especially ford. Right now the new Mustang is the best Bang for the buck out there.

no where in the OP's post said anything about a 335, she generalized BMW(meaning all BMW's) which is what he is talking about, a girl talking shit about BMW's...so thats what i was responding to, what her dumb ass opinion was

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

no where in the OP's post said anything about a 335, she generalized BMW(meaning all BMW's) which is what he is talking about, a girl talking shit about BMW's...so thats what i was responding to, what her dumb ass opinion was

True, but the discussion was between him and someone else and the OP drives a 335.

Do you really believe that BMW's in general are such great handling cars? I am referring to the newest generation vehicles. Man my car is 3800 lbs and it shows. The M3 is the same or more. IMHO BMW is definitely moving from "the ultimate driving machine" to the "ultimate comfort machine with pretty decent handling sometimes beaten by the lowly ford mustang".

[BTM]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Then all the times at the ring or any other test done by anyone, anywhere are worthless?.

All a lap time says is how fast the car went around in that particular instance. It probably wouldn't do that exact time ever again. Ring times are not the end all argument for any car comparison, including handling anyway. I'm not saying the Focus RS isn't fast, clearly it is, but a car's "handling" is much less tangible than a simple lap time. It has to do with on-center feel, step steer, ride quality, etc. A lap time is not necessarily indicative of a car's handling characteristics.

Also, FWIW, this thread wasn't comparing stock cars, so why shouldn't the BMW get the advantage of ditching its OEM tires?

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by BTM

All a lap time says is how fast the car went around in that particular instance. It probably wouldn't do that exact time ever again. Ring times are not the end all argument for any car comparison, including handling anyway. I'm not saying the Focus RS isn't fast, clearly it is, but a car's "handling" is much less tangible than a simple lap time. It has to do with on-center feel, step steer, ride quality, etc. A lap time is not necessarily indicative of a car's handling characteristics.

Also, FWIW, this thread wasn't comparing stock cars, so why shouldn't the BMW get the advantage of ditching its OEM tires?

I don't argue the logic at all, but the "ring" lap times are used as bragging rights and testing by most car manufacturers and are often used by the press for handling comparison. My point was that you will never get a fair comparison so you have to live with the lap times. To expect all cars to have the exact same tires (and to be more fair - same sizes) is impossible.

[BTM]

Exactly why I don't really follow ring times very much...their importance is negligible IMO. I can tell whether I like how a car handles when I drive it, not some ex-racecar driver on another continent. I guess people like to brag about what their car is capable of, but more often than not the car is more capable than the driver.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by BTM

Exactly why I don't really follow ring times very much...their importance is negligible IMO. I can tell whether I like how a car handles when I drive it, not some ex-racecar driver on another continent. I guess people like to brag about what their car is capable of, but more often than not the car is more capable than the driver.

No argument there.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by BTM

Exactly why I don't really follow ring times very much...their importance is negligible IMO. I can tell whether I like how a car handles when I drive it, not some ex-racecar driver on another continent. I guess people like to brag about what their car is capable of, but more often than not the car is more capable than the driver.

The ultimate test of a car is how it handles when pushed to the ultimate level buy a pro driver around a ring like Nurumbring, not you driving your car to the local pizza shop brian

[josephr25]

"BMW faggots that think your piece of shit is the car of the gods. It's an overpriced piece of fancy leather seats wrapped in metal."

She has half of the argument correct.