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Freakazoid · 08-04-2010, 02:11 PM

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Govt-O...pphu-container

so why am I paying taxes? so basically they're allowing people to even further freeload off the system...

i can get paid money, I can have a free house, I can have free food....and all I have to do is NOT WORK? wow....

Rochdale Pioneers · 08-04-2010, 05:08 PM

Yes I know its a radical concept, its called a society. The idea is that as members of a society (lets call this one America) you actually have a duty of care to treat each other as human beings and to not find it acceptable to have millions of people destitute homeless and starving because the economy crashed and burned.

Or perhaps it would be better for an apparently Christian country like America to treat the poor like feckless scrounging scum and do nothing to help. Yes, I'm sure thats what Jesus would have done.

mcmcallister · 08-05-2010, 02:27 PM

id quit working if my 325xi and its maintenance was covered by other people....but unfortunatly i just work for what i want, even if it means 12hrs a day, 6days a week.

Rochdale Pioneers · 08-05-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmcallister

id quit working if my 325xi and its maintenance was covered by other people....but unfortunatly i just work for what i want, even if it means 12hrs a day, 6days a week.

And most people do. I get paid good money and Ive worked hard to get where I am. I despise people who want to scrounge.

But when people end up in trouble, and can't get work because there's none to be found, I'm happy to pay my taxes to support people who need support. And if I ever need it that support will also be there. We pay insurance not because we get a benefit but becuse we might need a big one. Same with welfare. If you're happy with the idea that you and your family could be left homeless and destitute because of bankers, then sure, complain about payjng taxes to help others. Personally I put human dignity and my society ahead of cash, but whatever floats your boat.

TMNT · 08-05-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochdale Pioneers

But when people end up in trouble, and can't get work because there's none to be found, I'm happy to pay my taxes to support people who need support. And if I ever need it that support will also be there. We pay insurance not because we get a benefit but becuse we might need a big one. Same with welfare. If you're happy with the idea that you and your family could be left homeless and destitute because of bankers, then sure, complain about payjng taxes to help others. Personally I put human dignity and my society ahead of cash, but whatever floats your boat.

-Sarcasm on-
It's people like you that ruin this country with your compassion talk. That word isn't in the constitution last I checked. I have a serious problem with people mooching off the system living the good life in section 8 with food stamps that barely get them by. They are living the dream, I wish I could live like that.
-Sarcasm off-

mcmcallister · 08-05-2010, 03:04 PM

i dont feel the gubmint has the right to take out of my paycheck for "insurance programs"
if it were optional/private sector insurance, then i might get a policy, but why should i be forced to be "babysat" by uncle sam. I believe im responsible enough to plan for my own well being, i always plan for the long road ahead.

but the 2 brother-in-law's and half dozen friends i have that are on "unemployment" right now becuase there company doesnt have any work are loving this scenario, all of em are busy with side jobs and making double what they were before they were "unemployed"

for some reason i feel like an idiot for not collecting some of my "insurance" that i already payed for.

Rochdale Pioneers · 08-05-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmcallister

i dont feel the gubmint has the right to take out of my paycheck for "insurance programs"
if it were optional/private sector insurance, then i might get a policy, but why should i be forced to be "babysat" by uncle sam. I believe im responsible enough to plan for my own well being, i always plan for the long road ahead.

but the 2 brother-in-law's and half dozen friends i have that are on "unemployment" right now becuase there company doesnt have any work are loving this scenario, all of em are busy with side jobs and making double what they were before they were "unemployed"

for some reason i feel like an idiot for not collecting some of my "insurance" that i already payed for.

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. I'm not big on letting people go starving and homeless in first world countries, but if thats your model for America and you're comfortable with it, well its your country.

MiddleAgedAl · 08-05-2010, 04:01 PM

Personally, I am in favor of helping out the unfortunate, not the lazy/ignorant/stupid. If you were thoughtful, rational, made reasonable and carefully considered choices, were hardworking, and then still find yourself in a bad situation thru no fault of your own, I have no problem giving your a hand up (not a hand out).

Due to the worldwide economic misery we are all aware of, there are quite a few people who fit that description, and whose choices would normally have saved themselves from needing help in previous downturns (sure, they would have cut spending, but not been at risk of losing their homes). For those folks, sure, spend some of my tax money on them, because it's the right thing to do, and, if you are cold & calculating, you can prove that it may be more expensive in the long run to let them sink than it is to help them swim.

However, there are a great many who were not careful and thoughful with their choices, who were, in part, architects of their own demise, who now also need housing handouts. Sadly these gov programs dont filter those folks out, so my taxes ensure that they are relieved of dealing with the consequences of their cavalier actions.

Many people took on mortgages that were crazy and irresponsible for their income level. They foolishly assumed that if the bank was willing to lend them that much, then it must be OK, and they dont have to think for themselves.

Before the crash, my wife and I were shocked at the amount of money a bank was willing to loan us. We went home, and ran some very rough budget scenarios. It was very clear that just because they were willing to give us that much, it would be very risky and stupid to accept that much. We'd be so close to the edge that if anything happened, there was no margin for error. So, we ended up buying a much smaller and older place than we could have.

Then the economy imploded. My wife lost her job. We could still service the mortgage precisely because we didnt go for the big house with the fancy granite countertops and extra bathrooms, etc. We are still struggling on 1 income, but are not at immediate risk of losing our place because we took personal responsibility for our own well being; we didn't outsource that to the banker or the gov or anyone else.

For those who were earning less than we were, but bought a bigger fancier house than we did, I have no sympathy for you if you are now at risk of losing it.

It's like my BMW: if I chose, I could use ALL of it's power when I drive to the store. I could probably get away with it too for a while, without crashing or being arrested. However, if a car suddenly pulled out in front of me, there would be nothing left in reserve, so a crash is guaranteed. So, I drive below the limits of the car. I dont outsource the responsibility for my personal well being to the dealer and say, well if he was willing to sell me a car with >300hp, then I guess it must be ok to use all of it all the time. After all, if I could hurt myself, then the gov would make it illegal to sell a car with that power to weight ratio, right ?

bolinp78 · 08-05-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochdale Pioneers

Same with welfare. If you're happy with the idea that you and your family could be left homeless and destitute because of bankers, then sure, complain about payjng taxes to help others.

There is no accountability any more. This country is being overrun with the ideals of entitlement, hand-outs, and a 'gimme I deserve it' attidudes.

If you don't think that that is what a liberal is deep down, then you are dead wrong. You can fluff it up and call it "humane" and "compassionate", but the truth is that they want everyone to be on an equal playing field, regardless of situation. It is against capitalism (and don't tell me about evil corporations, I don't want to hear it), and completely against a free way of life.

If Obama completely had his way, you better believe that he'd tax the rich and tax corporations as much as he possibly could to prop up who he believes are "his people", regardless of the consequences (of which there are many)

bolinp78 · 08-05-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochdale Pioneers

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. I'm not big on letting people go starving and homeless in first world countries, but if thats your model for America and you're comfortable with it, well its your country.

How do you not realize that the problem is the people that are NOT starving and NOT destitute overrunning the system (if it's because you don't live here then I understand)...Hundreds of thousands of them, living off of the government because they realize that they do not have to work to live the current life that they do, or would not realize a significant income increase by working a minimum wage job.

There are homeless shelters all over the country and the world, many of them amazing facilities that resemble high schools (at least where I live) that help feed homeless people and give them jobs. Those people are not the problem.

TMNT · 08-05-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmcallister

I believe im responsible enough to plan for my own well being, i always plan for the long road ahead.

Do you currently have 16 months worth of savings to cover yourself if you lose your job and can't get another one for that long...if you even get one in that time period?

Probably not, but maybe you do. However most people don't even have a months worth of income in savings..and those that had the standard 3-6 months worth are obviously well passed that point now.

Our society would go into complete shit right now if all the people who lost their jobs had no other income. Violence & crime would sky rockett threw the roof...I know I wouldn't want to be around that.

Desperate people do some f*cked up things when they feel like they have no other choice....so I'd rather not let it get to that.

08-04-2010, 02:11 PM	#1
Freakazoid Captain Drives: Saturn Redline Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 967 iTrader: (0)	More housing aid http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Govt-O...pphu-container so why am I paying taxes? so basically they're allowing people to even further freeload off the system... i can get paid money, I can have a free house, I can have free food....and all I have to do is NOT WORK? wow....
	Tweet

08-05-2010, 02:27 PM	#3
mcmcallister Private Drives: 2006 325xi Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: southeast PA Posts: 70 iTrader: (0)	id quit working if my 325xi and its maintenance was covered by other people....but unfortunatly i just work for what i want, even if it means 12hrs a day, 6days a week. __________________ Life's hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

08-05-2010, 03:04 PM	#6
mcmcallister Private Drives: 2006 325xi Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: southeast PA Posts: 70 iTrader: (0)	i dont feel the gubmint has the right to take out of my paycheck for "insurance programs" if it were optional/private sector insurance, then i might get a policy, but why should i be forced to be "babysat" by uncle sam. I believe im responsible enough to plan for my own well being, i always plan for the long road ahead. but the 2 brother-in-law's and half dozen friends i have that are on "unemployment" right now becuase there company doesnt have any work are loving this scenario, all of em are busy with side jobs and making double what they were before they were "unemployed" for some reason i feel like an idiot for not collecting some of my "insurance" that i already payed for. __________________ Life's hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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08-04-2010, 05:08 PM	#2
Rochdale Pioneers First Lieutenant Drives: F10 520d SE Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Stockton on Tees UK Posts: 371 iTrader: (0)	Yes I know its a radical concept, its called a society. The idea is that as members of a society (lets call this one America) you actually have a duty of care to treat each other as human beings and to not find it acceptable to have millions of people destitute homeless and starving because the economy crashed and burned. Or perhaps it would be better for an apparently Christian country like America to treat the poor like feckless scrounging scum and do nothing to help. Yes, I'm sure thats what Jesus would have done.

08-05-2010, 04:01 PM	#8
MiddleAgedAl Second Lieutenant Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard Posts: 284 iTrader: (0)	Personally, I am in favor of helping out the unfortunate, not the lazy/ignorant/stupid. If you were thoughtful, rational, made reasonable and carefully considered choices, were hardworking, and then still find yourself in a bad situation thru no fault of your own, I have no problem giving your a hand up (not a hand out). Due to the worldwide economic misery we are all aware of, there are quite a few people who fit that description, and whose choices would normally have saved themselves from needing help in previous downturns (sure, they would have cut spending, but not been at risk of losing their homes). For those folks, sure, spend some of my tax money on them, because it's the right thing to do, and, if you are cold & calculating, you can prove that it may be more expensive in the long run to let them sink than it is to help them swim. However, there are a great many who were not careful and thoughful with their choices, who were, in part, architects of their own demise, who now also need housing handouts. Sadly these gov programs dont filter those folks out, so my taxes ensure that they are relieved of dealing with the consequences of their cavalier actions. Many people took on mortgages that were crazy and irresponsible for their income level. They foolishly assumed that if the bank was willing to lend them that much, then it must be OK, and they dont have to think for themselves. Before the crash, my wife and I were shocked at the amount of money a bank was willing to loan us. We went home, and ran some very rough budget scenarios. It was very clear that just because they were willing to give us that much, it would be very risky and stupid to accept that much. We'd be so close to the edge that if anything happened, there was no margin for error. So, we ended up buying a much smaller and older place than we could have. Then the economy imploded. My wife lost her job. We could still service the mortgage precisely because we didnt go for the big house with the fancy granite countertops and extra bathrooms, etc. We are still struggling on 1 income, but are not at immediate risk of losing our place because we took personal responsibility for our own well being; we didn't outsource that to the banker or the gov or anyone else. For those who were earning less than we were, but bought a bigger fancier house than we did, I have no sympathy for you if you are now at risk of losing it. It's like my BMW: if I chose, I could use ALL of it's power when I drive to the store. I could probably get away with it too for a while, without crashing or being arrested. However, if a car suddenly pulled out in front of me, there would be nothing left in reserve, so a crash is guaranteed. So, I drive below the limits of the car. I dont outsource the responsibility for my personal well being to the dealer and say, well if he was willing to sell me a car with >300hp, then I guess it must be ok to use all of it all the time. After all, if I could hurt myself, then the gov would make it illegal to sell a car with that power to weight ratio, right ?