BMW 1M Coupe Partially Unveiled at Oktoberfest! [INFO, VIDEO & PHOTOS]

[MinusS50]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Guys, high-revving engines and turbos aren't anything new, or hard to do. You size a turbo using its compressor map and plotting an engine using displacement, volumetric efficiency, and your desired RPM range.

If you had more RPM you could keep the same turbo and choke it, or get a larger turbo to make more torque in that extra RPM range, while sacrificing torque in the lower RPM range.

This is a very basic answer but I'm at work and don't have time to go into detail.

That a bit old fashion vision of Turbo. The problem of taking RPM on a turbo engine is due to be the back pressure generate by the turbine part so more big is the turbo less back pressure you generate at high rotation.

So if you have the 911 Turbo technology, you can fit a larger turbo with a VNT and take more rpm.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

$$$?

Sure, new technology is always more expensive initially, but it comes down in price over time.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Sure, new technology is always more expensive initially, but it comes down in price over time.

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

[formula M]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

This is why I wonder, how come we don't see more variable vaned turbos? They have been in use in diesel engines and Porsche uses them in the 997 Turbo.

I would bet that the M division entertained the idea of variable vaned turbos. Since they would be the most logical step, given the N54 design. The R&D would be minimal and adding another 1,300 rpm's to the top-end would do wonders for such an engine.

The new 1M might have a bi-turbo VVT ..!

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

No doubt about that, I agree. I'm just thinking that with M cars becoming FI, it would be great to see these types of turbos used in the M cars. The existing turbos are perfectly fine for the regular series cars.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by formula M

I would bet that the M division entertained the idea of variable vaned turbos. Since they would be the most logical step, given the N54 design. The R&D would be minimal and adding another 1,300 rpm's to the top-end would do wonders for such an engine.

The new 1M might have a bi-turbo VVT ..!

Now that's what I'm talking about. Then combine that with Valvetronic for the F30 M3.

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

I understand, I'm saying maybe the reason BMW gave us tiny, journal-bearing turbos with cast manifolds is likely because of the cheapness to manufacture vs Variable-vane, ball-bearing, tubular manifold turbo setups. (which would be FUCKING AWESOME!)

BMW's turbo suppliers are Borgwarner and MHI, and these manufacturers don't have dual-ballbearing turbos in their lineup.

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by Future M1 owner

BMW's turbo suppliers are Borgwarner and MHI, and these manufacturers don't have dual-ballbearing turbos in their lineup.

According to this Wikipedia article there is still hope

Main suppliers
Several companies supply the rotating vane type of variable geometry turbocharger, including Garrett (Honeywell), Borg Warner and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries).

[Future M1 owner]

Originally Posted by Madozu

According to this Wikipedia article there is still hope

Main suppliers
Several companies supply the rotating vane type of variable geometry turbocharger, including Garrett (Honeywell), Borg Warner and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries).

Variable geometry,yes, but ballbearing shafts are still the domain of Garrett Honeywell and IHI.

[jmunro]

Maybe when SCOTT says Hybrid it's an N54 except it has a twin scroll turbo (no valvetronic so it's not an N55)?

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by jmunro

Maybe when SCOTT says Hybrid it's an N54 except it has a twin scroll turbo (no valvetronic so it's not an N55)?

Emissions are driving the result of "The Hybrid". If you take an N55 335is and bump the power up, BMW may have been forced to use 2 more cats. Just a thought

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

Emissions are driving the result of "The Hybrid". If you take an N55 335is and bump the power up, BMW may have been forced to use 2 more cats. Just a thought

And this is based on what?

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

And this is based on what?

Higher power generates more emissions, where 2 more cats may help meet EPA requirements. When I say Hybrid, I mean the M1 engine.

[The1]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

This is why I wonder, how come we don't see more variable vaned turbos? They have been in use in diesel engines and Porsche uses them in the 997 Turbo.

I think the Direct injection gasoline engines are only in their infantcy when compared to a diesel engine. I fully expect to see high pressure systems put to use at some point, depending how much it will actually cost to produce this. But i wouldn't be suprised to see injection pressure jump up to a few thousand PSI to get better atomization and efficiency.

to get what i'm on about, Look at the HIUE systems (or similar) used on transport trucks today. Last i checked (a few years back) they were injecting deisel into the cylindars at 22,000 PSI just to get their emissions low and power high. So seeing a car with 10,000 wouldn't suprise me one day in the future.

it would be neat to see a dual plenum turbo (maybe even quad) used for more efficiency as well, help drop the spool times a tiny bit. I think it would work well with a Variable Vane turbo, though might not be that necessary since cars rev a lot higher pushing enough air that it wouldn't really matter.

If you want to see the future of our beloved gasoline, watch the technological developments in transport truck engines. pretty amaizing stuff.

and as stated by others, the more units of something that are made, the more the price can drop. The first fully carbon fibre car was 1000000$ now you can get many different car designs that are stronger and more advanced for a 1/4 of that price. it only took 20 years

[DigIn3D]

someone should have just ripped the cover off lol

[formula M]

Originally Posted by jmunro

Maybe when SCOTT says Hybrid it's an N54 except it has a twin scroll turbo (no valvetronic so it's not an N55)?

I doubt the 1M is going in that direction. I think it would require too much duct work.

The 1M's engine will most likely be named a S54 & I think more fundamental philosophies are being used. We all know the N54 in stock form can make 425+HP in limited duration. But even matching that freakish hp from the M Division isn't logical.. it would simply be too much, for the scope of the car anyways. (ie: sloppy)

So there is ALOT of middle ground between 300Hp ~ 450 in stock from. Let alone able to redesign internals, or use new variable efficiency turbo to the bi-turbo set up? If we can get 380hp @ 6400rpms & 380ft-lbs of torque @ a much lower and concise point of 1,200rpm's ~ 5,200rpm's.

But even that isn't impressive, if they can't match the response... which I think they are secretly grinning about. I think that is alot of what this engine is about.. to pre-sell the new turbo M3.


The E30 M3 didn't have alot of engine, but it had something right.... but.. HAF

[MinusS50]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

Higher power generates more emissions, where 2 more cats may help meet EPA requirements. When I say Hybrid, I mean the M1 engine.

Hmm there is no point of having another cat rather than upgrading one with the right level of rare metal (palladium etc ...) to meet the emission

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by MinusS50

Hmm there is no point of having another cat rather than upgrading one with the right level of rare metal (palladium etc ...) to meet the emission

Sure, but the M1 evolves from existing piece parts and new cosmetics. Ok, ok the muffler is new, but only due to cosmetics.

[I Love BMW's]

Originally Posted by DigIn3D

someone should have just ripped the cover off lol

I attended the BMW M Power Experience Event in Miramas France a couple of days ago. As a part of the event, they had a 1 Series M Coupe they showed us - at least the same front fender they show in the video. I was tempted to rip the rest of the cover off - but restrained myself and just felt the car up through the cover instead.

There were a few tidbits thrown out about the car - one I haven't seen reported here is that it will be a limited production run for 1 year with 500 cars allocated to North America.

[Cameraeye]

Originally Posted by I Love BMW's

I attended the BMW M Power Experience Event in Miramas France a couple of days ago. As a part of the event, they had a 1 Series M Coupe they showed us - at least the same front fender they show in the video. I was tempted to rip the rest of the cover off - but restrained myself and just felt the car up through the cover instead.

There were a few tidbits thrown out about the car - one I haven't seen reported here is that it will be a limited production run for 1 year with 500 cars allocated to North America.

Serious? That sucks about the 500 allocated here.

[I Love BMW's]

Originally Posted by Cameraeye

Serious? That sucks about the 500 allocated here.

Yes, they were serious. The comment was that they want it to be a limited edition - and are hopeful they will all be pre-sold.

[02fireman]

Originally Posted by I Love BMW's

I attended the BMW M Power Experience Event in Miramas France a couple of days ago. As a part of the event, they had a 1 Series M Coupe they showed us - at least the same front fender they show in the video. I was tempted to rip the rest of the cover off - but restrained myself and just felt the car up through the cover instead.

There were a few tidbits thrown out about the car - one I haven't seen reported here is that it will be a limited production run for 1 year with 500 cars allocated to North America.

Oh well, that means it's an M3 for me then.. Either way, I won't complain.