Autoblog's First Drive of 1M Coupe

[Malbolge]

I swear in some pictures it looks like it's boss eyed car.

[madman23]

I will just never understand. This car is smaller than an M3, yet is only 190lbs. lighter. I hope theyre adding a lot of useless nonsense that wieghs a lot.

[335iMIAMI]

I hope it does not come in DCT.

[formula M]

Originally Posted by madman23

I will just never understand. This car is smaller than an M3, yet is only 190lbs. lighter. I hope theyre adding a lot of useless nonsense that wieghs a lot.

What?

Isn't the weight of the current M3, 3704 lbs (1680 kg)..? & the 1M is said to be 3,300 lbs.

Thats roughly 404 lbs difference.

[GewoW]

Originally Posted by formula M

What?

Isn't the weight of the current M3, 3704 lbs (1680 kg)..? & the 1M is said to be 3,300 lbs.

Thats roughly 404 lbs difference.

m3's less than that
i think it's around that with driver + fluids

[XC]

Humm, several people around the prototypes have somehow complained about the lack of an agressive exhaust note... I hope BMW tunes it up before the unveiling!

[///M1]

Originally Posted by formula M

What?

Isn't the weight of the current M3, 3704 lbs (1680 kg)..? & the 1M is said to be 3,300 lbs.

Thats roughly 404 lbs difference.

I certainly hope the 1 ///M is 3,300lbs, but I am left wondering where they found the weight savings over a 135i, considering they are adding extra components that weigh more (bigger wheels + tires, quad exhaust, bigger fender panels, larger brakes, etc.) I guess if it is indeed available with no sunroof that would shed a few lbs, but still think 3300 is rather optimistic considering there is no use of CF or lightweight seats/interior. Lower better of course.

[cpippolo]

3704 lbs is official M3 couple weight from website. Presume the 3300 lbs for 1M is on the same basis. 135i with sunroof and manual trans is 3373. Had heard that the 19in competition wheels are actually lighter than the 18inchers for the M3. Non-runflats I believe are signfiicantly lighter than runflats. No sunroof should save about 45lbs. Some of the reviews suggested that some of the body panels were plastic (composite I think?), which should save weight. The only weight addition is the LSD, right? Don't know what that weighs, but 3300 lbs overall seems in the ballpark.

[GewoW]

Originally Posted by cpippolo

3704 lbs is official M3 couple weight from website. Presume the 3300 lbs for 1M is on the same basis. 135i with sunroof and manual trans is 3373. Had heard that the 19in competition wheels are actually lighter than the 18inchers for the M3. Non-runflats I believe are signfiicantly lighter than runflats. No sunroof should save about 45lbs. Some of the reviews suggested that some of the body panels were plastic (composite I think?), which should save weight. The only weight addition is the LSD, right? Don't know what that weighs, but 3300 lbs overall seems in the ballpark.

3704 is with fluids and driver

and no the 19s ZCP aren't lighter than 18s...they're very close (within a pound)

[///M1]

Originally Posted by cpippolo

3704 lbs is official M3 couple weight from website. Presume the 3300 lbs for 1M is on the same basis. 135i with sunroof and manual trans is 3373. Had heard that the 19in competition wheels are actually lighter than the 18inchers for the M3. Non-runflats I believe are signfiicantly lighter than runflats. No sunroof should save about 45lbs. Some of the reviews suggested that some of the body panels were plastic (composite I think?), which should save weight. The only weight addition is the LSD, right? Don't know what that weighs, but 3300 lbs overall seems in the ballpark.

Well, I love to be able to see and believe it. I just wonder where the net weight savings come from. Here is a quick back of the envelope calc:

1. Rims: let's call it even, although me thinks even with the relatively light for 19" wheels, the M3 Comp 9/19 fronts with the 10/19 rears will outweigh by a few lbs the stock 7.5/18 - 8.5/18 setup.
2. LSD - whatever it weighs, it adds lbs
3. Exhaust - ditto. A dual setup (granted a one sided with an extension) should weigh more than the 135i's one-sided
4. Brakes - even though the 4 rotors are cross drilled, they are much bigger than the stock 135i. Unless there are some savings on the caliper front, I would say they will be a net weight gainer
5. Tires: yeah, while RFTs are heavier, keep in mind you are going from a 215/40/18 front and 245/35/18 to 245s/265s in a 19" configuration. Looking on Tire Tack's website, the RFTs are 24lbs up front and 26lbs in the rear. The PS2s in the 19" configuration are 23 and 25 lbs, respectively. So that equates to a mere 4lbs savings. However, it will likely have the ///M mobility kit in the trunk, so at best this is a wash.
6. Sunroof delete - call it 45lbs. Although I have to say, I am not sure BMW will have this standard in the US, many folks consider this a vital option here (although on a car like this I agree it has no place).

If you add these up, I see a net increase if anything, or optimistically at best flat/no gain. If indeed it is marketed to be 3300 then they must have found a way to shed some 73lbs or more. Maybe fenders are light weight material, maybe less sound deadening material inside (unlikely). We shall see, I like the 3300 figure but for now can't figure out how they arrived to it.

[cpippolo]

Originally Posted by ///M1

We shall see, I like the 3300 figure but for now can't figure out how they arrived to it.

By weighing the car?

I hear you. I'm just hopeful they wont throw that number out unless they think they can meet it.

[marcel b]

the m3 suspension parts are lighter, but indeed, there is a gap. I read that at the testdrive it was said that all the bodyparts are sheetmetal, no carbonfiber..

[Drillslinger]

While the difference would be negligible, didn't SCOTT mention that BMW was using a different (lighter) plastic for the body panels?

[cpippolo]

Agree no carbon fiber, but thought at least one of the car magazine reviews suggested the fenders were some kind of plastic. Could be wrong, but it wont stop me from getting one unless the final reviews of the final production car turn out less positive.

[clausy]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

Interesting how they mention DCT coming might be true... They even have a dct picture?

sorry, i just reposted that i a new thread :-)

[madman23]

The current Z4's 3.0-liter produces 335 horsepower and 332 pound-feet of torque. Even if the new M Coupe's engine just matches this, it will still out-twist the 295 lb-ft offered by the V8 in the M3 – all in a vehicle that's 190 pounds lighter.

Thats a quote out of the article.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ///M1

If you add these up, I see a net increase if anything, or optimistically at best flat/no gain. If indeed it is marketed to be 3300 then they must have found a way to shed some 73lbs or more. Maybe fenders are light weight material, maybe less sound deadening material inside (unlikely). We shall see, I like the 3300 figure but for now can't figure out how they arrived to it.

As you say we shall see. If they have the budget there are many places they could find that weight that are less obvious.
Lightweight flywheel (also helps with throttle response), lighter seats, higher spec battery (don't need to go lion), exhaust system materials (higher spec materials let you go down in wall thickness- you can save big weight without the expense of Ti or Inconel).
Drive axles can be hollow, driveshaft can be higher spec, suspension subframes can go from steel to alu, windshield glass thickness can be reduced, and on...

Basically every component on the car was designed to a budget, and it can be redesigned to save weight. If you now have a higher budget. So the question is what do they want it to weigh, and what are they willing to spend? Given the rushed development of the car I suspect they didn't know themselves until very recently what the final tradeoffs would look like. I'd be surprised if it's at or less than 3300 myself, but one can hope.

[GeeRam]

It's clear that there's been a limited development schedule to get this to production, so I can't see there being much in the way of drastic weight saving components, so I think they will have done a great job if the 1M comes in at the same weight as a 135i tbh, and I agree that it's likely in reality there will be a slight weight gain over a 135i.

[formula M]

Originally Posted by GewoW

3704 is with fluids and driver

Well, it doesn't matter..^^ all BMW cars are weighed that way. The point was (is) that the M3 weighs about 400lbs more than the 1M (if the 3300lbs is true).

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by formula M

Well, it doesn't matter..^^ all BMW cars are weighed that way. The point was (is) that the M3 weighs about 400lbs more than the 1M (if the 3300lbs is true).

At the predrive event we were told curb weight under 1500 kilos. One for the questions asked was what the design cycle time for the 1m is. As I recall it was said to be 12-18 months vs 24 months as a normal time frame. The typical 24 month period is a part of why M cars come out more than a year after the base cars that they are designed upon.

All I know is that I sure hope car and drivers review is correct in many ways.


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q4/2012_bmw_1-series_m_coupe-prototype_drive

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

At the predrive event we were told curb weight under 1500 kilos.

<1500 kg = <3307 lbs
Sounds pretty good.

[M3 Adjuster]

[quote=Pete_vB;8421671]

Originally Posted by ///M1

As you say we shall see. If they have the budget there are many places they could find that weight that are less obvious.
Lightweight flywheel (also helps with throttle response), lighter seats, higher spec battery (don't need to go lion), exhaust system materials (higher spec materials let you go down in wall thickness- you can save big weight without the expense of Ti or Inconel).
Drive axles can be hollow, driveshaft can be higher spec, suspension subframes can go from steel to alu, windshield glass thickness can be reduced, and on...

Basically every component on the car was designed to a budget, and it can be redesigned to save weight. If you now have a higher budget. So the question is what do they want it to weigh, and what are they willing to spend? Given the rushed development of the car I suspect they didn't know themselves until very recently what the final tradeoffs would look like. I'd be surprised if it's at or less than 3300 myself, but one can hope.

Very good points here. I have not seen an n54 flywheel but these items have practically doubled in weight over the last 30 years ( stock e30m3 flywheel is 18 lbs.. Evo version 12 lbs ). 8-10 lbs here. The C/D article talks about the lighter rear suspension from the M. Lighter wheels and tires can save probably 6-8 lbs per corner. Lighter, Manual seats, and so on. The Cayman R lost 120 lbs (was part of this stereo?) so I think 80 lbs is certainly possible. Interesting that the c/d article shows 3308 lbs. That doesn't appear to be an arbitrary figure. I also like their 43k price. :-).