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      12-12-2010, 08:22 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post


I fail to see where I use some "obscure marketing terminology", when those are my own words. I have been using the word "de-stress" for many... many years!
OK...even better because now I know it didn't come from BMW


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Originally Posted by formula M View Post
Secondly, adding bigger anything doesn't necessarily mean it's better, it must be engineered better, to be better. And yes, adding a better component to your car is not engineering. What it took to make that component better was engineering.
OK....but go buy any aftermarket intercooler out there and replace your stock one then measure your intake temperatures and report back on that.

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So lets not play games! Specially, since you've taken the actual context out of place. (How BMW makes 370ft-lbs -vs- how Shiv & Terry make it)
Seems to me that they all make it using the same methodology - they crank up the boost via software instructions. All of them recommend better heat dissipation via larger intercoolers, less restrictive intakes and freeing up exhaust restrictions.

BMW will allow you a 10 second burst at 370 ft lbs via increased boost pressure. The aftermarket tuners do not set a time limit and you can run that power all the time if you so desire.

However the additional heat from all that power will catch up with the lack of cooling capacity that was designed into the original N54 platform which is engineered for 300 hp - not 370.

So I can see an argument to be made for the lack of engineering on the part of the tuners to manage the additional heat, which I would wholeheartedly agree with.

But like I stated earlier......BMW seems to have addressed this via additional cooling capacity and time limited bursts of power to allow some combustion chamber cooling to take place (speculating here).

Yes that is obviously engineering, but is still not what I would consider radical in any way.
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      12-12-2010, 08:32 PM   #486
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Just add 2 big oil coolers.
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      12-12-2010, 09:09 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
Read the thread..

The argument was how BMW handles an additional +50ft-lbs of torque -vs- how a piggyback handles it. BMW de-stresses the engine, so that when adding additional load, it doesn't hinder the engine life-long durability. This is true on several occasions, including allowing Dinan to tune, w exception to added cooling & BMW's own performance kit, etc. What I suggest is not far-fetched or out of the norm, just logical and representative of past practices and engineering principals.

That was the only remark I made. Perhaps unclearly, as I assumed most would understand.



Now, in speculation it makes the most logical sense that if M engineers didn't have time to BUILD a new M engine, they worked the one they have. Knowing engines and what they do... it is not hard to speculate what an M engineer would do to a N54 to make it better (with little cost & time), you have to let it breath better (VE).

The only other argument is that BMW engineers did absolutely nothing with VE and left the engine alone. But we know that is not true, given the numerous accounts on it pulling harder and longer, etc..

How BMW got the power is not in question... never was. (ie: tune)
No need to be snobbish about it (it comes across that way trust me).

Anyway my response was based upon this quote from you:

"BMW has de-stressed the N54 and engineered better intakes, exhaust to garner the additional +50ft-lbs of torque in the is and 1M."

I am sure with your infinitesimal knowledge you can see the error of that statement and why I would say that the things you stated are NOT enough to gain 50ft/lbs TQ.

So please quit telling me to reread the damn thread...I have read it...
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      12-12-2010, 09:41 PM   #488
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No need to be snobbish about it (it comes across that way trust me).
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      12-12-2010, 10:45 PM   #489
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What I am wondering about is if BMW did anything to equalize the cylinder temps across all cylinders. When I was running the 335i, I read an BMW engineer's comment saying that cylinder #6 (the one under the firewall/bridge) was routinely seeing higher temps than the others. Presumably by virtue of its positioning and the lack of airflow in the area.

If that is true - and I have no way of telling with certainty - that could be a major contributor to reduced longevity. It also could mean that in many situations the computer is twiddling with the timing to reduce power and temps to that cylinder.


I'm not suggesting the N54 is a time bomb, just throwing some comments out there for people to sink their teeth in...

(And biding my time until the M is returned to me, after I experimented with winter grip by jumping a curb on my way home.)
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      12-13-2010, 01:09 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMansM5 View Post
January issue of C&D is quoting a price of $43k for 1M.
Also if you base the percentage price difference of US M3 coupe prices to UK M3 coupe prices, the 1M price comes to just under $44k as 1M in UK is 39,900 pounds.
I hope people don't think they are going to actually get a 1M for that much. Unless you want a dumbed down no option car which is lame IMO.

You can EASILY spend 45k on a 135i.

If you could get a loaded 1M for 43k I'd be all over it. I bet with options it will be more around 51-52k loaded.
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      12-13-2010, 02:15 AM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
Yes, the whole idea is flawed. (M piggyback)

Why would someone buy a 1M to drag race, when a 135i is cheaper and u can spend the difference of cost, on things that make faster people, happier..?


Secondly, why would an M owner "piggyback" a 1M for no reason? This car has a specific focus and limited quantities. BMW knows their engines and knows what their potential is, but they also have to warranty them.

Piggybacks are just that... they circumvent the engine management (or fool it) to extract more performance @ the cost of durability and maintenance. Since most of these people don't keep their "ragged-out lease cars" for 5~7 years, they never see the added maintains or the harm they do. They don't care.


BMW has de-stressed the N54 and engineered better intakes, exhaust to garner the additional +50ft-lbs of torque in the is and 1M. That doesn't mean they don't know the engine as good as tuners... it just means BMW has to weigh the benefit in higher gas mileage across the board, more pollutant, higher insurance cost, marketability, gas guzzler tax, durability, warranty, Federal regulations, etc...

If BMW had to only worry about 6 years of an engines life, the N54 in the 135i/335i would've been 360hp/370ft-lbs. So it is safe to say that BMW, can easily achieve the 451HP potential in the 1M's engine, but de-tuned it for reliability and warranty reasons. Like every car they build.

But make no mistake, I am sure BMW will offer aftermarket BMW Motorsport package that will further assist in unleashing this engine raw potential, for off-road use, etc..



Understand, "Piggybacks" only need to make as much HP as they can, without causing limp mode and doesn't destroy the engine outright over a 3~4 year period. The micro dmg they are doing, will be seen on broken down BMW's, 10 years from now.
Read the thread!!!!!!

Since you seem intent on quoting yourself and saying that you never said certain things AND saying I put words in your mouth let me once again QUOTE your own words (see above).

Right above, highlighted, you can SEE your own STATEMENT that I obviously made up.

And if you reread my previous posts you will see I am not talking about the HP and neither were you (in the statement in question mind you) we were talking about lbs/ft torque.....no where did I mention HP.....

There is no dragnet here guy....I have been on this forum for a while and am far from a so-called troll. You come across as a know-it-all in the tone of your writing. You may not be able to sense it from reading it yourself but trust me it is there....
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      12-13-2010, 08:15 AM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JsnMR2 View Post
I hope people don't think they are going to actually get a 1M for that much. Unless you want a dumbed down no option car which is lame IMO.

You can EASILY spend 45k on a 135i.

If you could get a loaded 1M for 43k I'd be all over it. I bet with options it will be more around 51-52k loaded.
My comment was on the base price. I am sure with options it will be above $50k, to the #s you mentioned.
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      12-13-2010, 01:04 PM   #493
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LOVE it!
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      12-13-2010, 04:47 PM   #494
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Oh jeez man...you just took this all the wrong way....it would have been simpler for you to clarify your statement by saying that you meant that the inclusion of more boost as well as the de-stressing, better intake, and exhaust garner the extra +50ft/lbs.....simple isn't it?

BTW I agree with the majority of what you are saying and I do think BMW will probably be offering some type of increased performance kit in the future.
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      12-13-2010, 08:47 PM   #495
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Here's a 1M sitting just right with some Motons....
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      12-13-2010, 09:33 PM   #496
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^ I like it.
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      12-13-2010, 09:38 PM   #497
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New Video

Not sure if repost.....didnt see it.

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      12-14-2010, 10:51 PM   #498
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Quote:
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Here's a 1M sitting just right with some Motons....
Just beautiful. I had a plan laid out to get the BMW performance suspension, LSD, the cross-drilled brakes, and the BMW PPK for my 135i in January, and now I'm thinking, I should just put all of that cash towards one of these. Lordie. I still want the suspension and the LSD for the 135i though.
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      12-15-2010, 01:22 AM   #499
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Quote:
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Here's a 1M sitting just right with some Motons....
Sick!
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      12-15-2010, 05:33 AM   #500
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Sorry if this has been written, or I am being thick, but can anyone see a boost gauge anywhere?
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      12-17-2010, 02:37 PM   #501
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Here's the first extensive video footage of the 1M coupe, in over 11 unedited minutes of the newest M car, including footage of start up, acceleration, revving, handling, and track footage. A nice bonus is footage of the 1M coupe running on the track with its spiritual forefather - the E30 M3.


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      12-17-2010, 02:57 PM   #502
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Quote:
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Here's the first extensive video footage of the 1M coupe, in over 11 unedited minutes of the newest M car, including footage of start up, acceleration, revving, handling, and track footage. A nice bonus is footage of the 1M coupe running on the track with its spiritual forefather - the E30 M3.


No sound?
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      12-17-2010, 03:08 PM   #503
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No sound?
Can you not hear the fly buzzing?

Best to fast forward to 5:27 and end at 10:11.
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      12-17-2010, 03:26 PM   #504
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Can you not hear the fly buzzing?

Best to fast forward to 5:27 and end at 10:11.
Tricky, that...
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      12-17-2010, 10:14 PM   #505
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I like the front. I like the back. I like the interior with the fat steering wheel and red piping on the seats... not so much on the Alcantara since I am just envisioning them wearing away quickly (like previous M cars). I think they should have added stainless steel foot pedals to match the footrest. Shifter could have been nicer.

It's hard to see the side profile of the car as being "macho". It still looks like a blown up Chevy Aveo on steroids.

I love what they added suspension-wise and the addition of the M diff... big plus! The extra oil cooler is a must and I really really hope they fixed the fuel pump issue. Last nag would be that they didn't add enough HP. But I suppose that's what chip companies are for. This should be putting out around 400 hp.

And as for the E30 M3 comparison with regards to "having the same spirit"... I'm not feeling it.... In fact, it feels somewhat insulting for them to even think of that...
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      12-18-2010, 12:27 PM   #506
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BMW is trying their best to compare it to any previous M3 because that's who they aim to sell it to. It's 10 seconds faster than an e46 on the ring...it has the soul of the E30 M3....etc. They are over marketing this car and grabbing at straws to connect it to M's past. I look at it as a new M car that has it's own identity. It's technologically savvy while remaining pretty simple. They are keeping the price down by not going gadget crazy and keeping some distance from the M3. It's very much a parts bin car but I think they are taking good parts from the M3 to make this work.

I'm putting a deposit down next week. White...no options. It will hopefully be turned into my club racing car within 6-8 years.
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