1M European Delivery - Planning the Ultimate European Driving Tour

[Dackelone]

Airfare: Normally the cheapest plane ticket prices to Germany are to come before Easter/April or after September/Octoberfest. I have seen round trip tickets for $400 to $600 RT durrinng those times. In peak summer travel time... the RT costs are around $1,500. Normally you can look online for some deals. Lufthansa offers some deals on their home page. You just have to keep looking - and book well in advance.

+1 to the Ibus accor hotels. They are cheap and clean - no frill hotels. I also like N&H Hotels - but they are around 110 euros per night - but very nice/luxo.

www.nh-hotels.de


Dackel

[Franklin Joseph]

Anyone know if Lufthansa is still doing the companion fly free for the ED customers?
I saw online that it expired last year...wondering if that will be offered again.

British Airways is about $1000 from Houston (with a stop in London) - traveling in May.

[neech]

How hard is it to navigate around in Germany not knowing the language? Also, I have a friend that lives at the AF base in Aviano Italy which is about 5 hrs. from Munich... Is there any process to driving in/out of Austria (passport checks), or is it as easy as driving between the states here in the US?

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by neech

How hard is it to navigate around in Germany not knowing the language? Also, I have a friend that lives at the AF base in Aviano Italy which is about 5 hrs. from Munich... Is there any process to driving in/out of Austria (passport checks), or is it as easy as driving between the states here in the US?

Navigating in Germany without knowing German is no Problem if you have an english speaking satnav. Other than that... some of us speak English. A little at least.

The inner-european borders exist, but are almost all basic drive thru stations. Customs usually cycles stations and does random checks from time to time. Nothing even closely similar to the ridiculous process of entering the US as a foreigner! The only border you'll find in that area is the (non-EU) swiss border, but even swiss customs are rather relaxed, coming from Germany. HOWEVER... depending on what type of german license plate a ED car has (I assume the so called "Zollkennzeichen" (customs plates) which identify a vehicle which is to be exported very soon), the swiss customs may look a little closer, because you are actually moving goods from the EU through Switzerland in transit.

[m_thompson]

Originally Posted by neech

How hard is it to navigate around in Germany not knowing the language? Also, I have a friend that lives at the AF base in Aviano Italy which is about 5 hrs. from Munich... Is there any process to driving in/out of Austria (passport checks), or is it as easy as driving between the states here in the US?

When I started visiting Germany about 20 years ago it was not unusual to find people who didn't speak English. Now it is difficult to to find someone who doesn't speak English.

You should at least learn some conversational German. Learning the words for the basic food groups and cooking styles is a good idea. Staring at a menu and not understanding what it says is no fun.

If you drive on the Autobahn in Switzerland or Italy you will need a toll sticker. The fine is hefty if you get caught without one. They are available at gas stations and shops near the border or from ADAC. If you have AAA in the USA you can get service from ADAC in Germany.

[rps1m]

Originally Posted by 02fireman

As far as the airfare, I can't help much because my wife is a flight attendant and I fly free, but for hotels I have stayed at a hotel chain called Ibis which have a few locations in Munich and have others all over Europe. I have never paid more than 60 euro and they are nice clean hotels. They are part of Accor hotels which own everyone from the Intercontinental down. Check it out online accorhotels.com. They also own other relatively inexpensive hotel chains all over the world. Hope it helps

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[neech]

emmdrei and m_thompson, thanks for the info! I will definitely learn some basic German.. I hate to think I would be one of those 'Americans' that travels overseas and can't understand why people don't speak English I now wish I would have taken German as much as I did Spanish in school haha.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by m_thompson

If you drive on the Autobahn in Switzerland or Italy you will need a toll sticker. The fine is hefty if you get caught without one. They are available at gas stations and shops near the border or from ADAC. If you have AAA in the USA you can get service from ADAC in Germany.

Switzerland or Austria would be correct. They have toll stickers. And especially the Austrians try f...ing tourists over by having unclear signage at some of their border crossings. You think you are driving on a toll free road (you don't need a sticker if you don't drive on their motorway) but then you end up on one that is chargeable. And exactly there they will have a checkpoint. Italy has no toll sticker but has toll booths on certain Autostradas. You can either buy a prepaid electronic toll card or pay cash (I'm not sure about credit card acceptance).

And btw... getting caught speeding is no fun in either of the three countries! In Austria the cops can judge your speed by eyesight, in Switzerland they have the most ridiculous fines and the best camoflaged radar traps world-wide and the italians can confiscate a vehicle if you're over the limit by a certain speed. Should you get caught speeding in Germany, fines are approx. double for foreigners. Sounds unjust but makes sense, since everybody and their brother comes here to road-race. Some German Autobahn cops have 911s btw... so don't think of trying to outrun them!

[02fireman]

Beer is the same in most languages.

[My E90]

It's true about speeding in other countries. When I was there last year, I noticed that if the sign said 80km/hr, everyone did 80. Just keep watching the signs for the unrestricted speed. I once saw a map that outlined all the unrestricted areas of Germany's autobahns that could be helpful if you're planning your trip around being able to set the cruise control at 130mph.

[analogue]

Speed Limit Map:
http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/Limitkarte.pdf

Legend:
http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/LegendeLimit_e.pdf

[My E90]

Ah, yes... that's the one!

[Dackelone]

^^All excellent posts and questions guys. One thing I might add is... In Germany every car needs a warning triangle and first aid kit (they come with your car when doing ED with BMW) but you will also need a reflective warning vest for every person in the car. And the vests have to be located inside of the passenger area.

Also... when you go outside of Germany... you will need a spare light bulb and fuse kit (it all comes as a kit). BMW Welt sells these for ten euros. Most cops don't ask for them. But if they do... $$$ fine. Also some countries are strange like Spain and Portugal... over there you need TWO warning triangles AND two bulb kits.

In Italy there is no Vignette toll sticker like for Austria and Swizerland. The Autostrada is basically one big toll road. Think of the NJ Turnpike. lol I believe in Italy they require DRL's now durring the daytime.

AND IF you get caught speeding over here by a real live cop (not a red flash by a Blitz/photo rader) you WILL have to pay in cash right then and there on the side of teh road. But tsill that is a rare thing.

Most of the German autobahns DO have a speed limit. Most sections in Bayern do not though. Even when you do see those sweet three diagonal lines - meaning end of controls... while technically you are free to drive as fas as you like... they suggest you drive 130 kph. IF you have an accident above that speed... you could end up paying for it. But still... when I see a "free area" I drive fast and enjoy it!

Dackel

[LeMansM5]

Great thread. Thanks to OP.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

Anything kid friendly to do during ED? Looks like if i do get ED, i'll bring my daughter along (she'll be almost 4 then).

You might try out one of the many "Sommerrodelbahnen" (luge/sled). Most are only open in the summer time. I been to the one bellow and also one outisde of Garmisch area.

This one is near BA in the wonderful Fränkische Schweiz state park.

http://www.sommerrodelbahnen-pottenstein.de/

www.fraenkische-schweiz.com/



Dackel

[JimD]

When I bought my 128i convertible in 2009 I considered doing ED but chickened out. My wife died in late 2008 and I was feeling a bit overwhelmed. I did not find this website until later:

http://www.driveeurope.com/

I think if I had found it in time I would have let them arrange things and done it. But if you spend some time and ask for advice, I think it is entirely possible to arrange everything yourself. And if you have the $$, BMW offers high end packages too. The ED forum on bimmerfest is someplace you have to go if you are considering ED. There are lots of people like Dackal with great advice. In addition, there are great threads complete with pictures to wet your appetite. This is one of my favorites:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=292812

If you do not get the iDrive, you should take a portable GPS (with Europe maps). There is a sticky on the bimmerfest site where a guy will rent you one. I would still take maps but I think the added confience/margin is even more necessary when you are also dealing with languages you may not know and areas you have not been to before. You could even get the BMW portable unit but I think you would have to use it with a Garmin mount because I don't think you can get it installed at the Welt. It wouldn't hurt to ask. It should be no more than $1000 installed, I think, for the voice controlled unit and installation makes it totally integrated with the car radio (sound comes out the speakers, the radio or CD mutes for navigation instructions and it also give you bluetooth phone).

I like the mountain pass routes but there are many interesting and beautiful routes.

My encouragement is not to feel overwhelmed, either spend some time and plan it out yourself or let a specialized travel agent do it for you - but do it!!

Jim

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

Anything kid friendly to do during ED?

A place a four year old will probably love:

http://www.legoland.de/en/

Is approx. 100km from Munich (less than an hours drive). Other than that, we have a ton of fun and theme parks in Germany. Just be aware... our rides tend to be a tad faster than those in Disney World.

Something that is really worth seeing is the "Deutsche Museum" in Munich (http://www.deutsches-museum.de/index.php?id=1&L=1). There is tons to see there for kids, everything moves, they even have a part of the museum for children only.

As far as the ring goes and having someone take care of the child: I would recommend spending a night in one of the four star or more hotels in the area (there are plenty) and I am sure you will find a hotel, that can take care of your daughter while you run the ring. BUT... I honestly wouldn't do it! Hurt or kill yourself and what about the kid? And yes, the track is THAT dangerous.

[Franklin Joseph]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

As far as the ring goes and having someone take care of the child: I would recommend spending a night in one of the four star or more hotels in the area (there are plenty) and I am sure you will find a hotel, that can take care of your daughter while you run the ring. BUT... I honestly wouldn't do it! Hurt or kill yourself and what about the kid? And yes, the track is THAT dangerous.

thanks...will have to look into those hotels. As for driving it, i probably wont drive the ring with the new car but i really want a date with Sabine...hehe...shotgun too.

[JimD]

You need to read some threads about the ring. When you can get track time there are a wide variety of vehicles on the track going a wide variety of speeds. It is possible to get yourself in trouble but if you leave the stability control on and don't go crazy, there is no reason you should wreck, let alone get hurt. Normal insurance doesn't cover track time, however, it might be wise to see if BMW's does.

Jim

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by JimD

It is possible to get yourself in trouble but if you leave the stability control on and don't go crazy, there is no reason you should wreck, let alone get hurt.

I love it, when people belittle the "grüne Hölle"! How many laps have you driven it? 2.000? 10.000?

Last year there was a multi car pile-up between Fuchsröhre and Adenauer Forst on an oil spill with at least two drivers being hospitalized. The year before, there was a mutiple vehicle crash just before the bottom of the Fuchsröhre with at least one bike rider left dead. Just two examples. There are parts of the track that you enter blind, in case you haven't noticed. And even if you are travelling at touristic speeds, your chances are, that you will not stand much of a chance if you either hit oil or if the track is blocked by a multi-car collision. Oil spills are fairly common, especially in the parts of the track with high curbing, where drivers running off will damage the underside of their cars (and most will drive on, because they don't know what else to do).

What most people don't realize: a very high percentage of the drivers during tourist traffic will be driving at speeds close to race speed. Because they simply know the track. Especially if you come from a country (which is true for 99,9% of the world outside of Germany) with speed limits, the sheer speed alone takes getting used to. And then you have semi-race traffic, with drivers that will attempt to pass at every chance they get. That makes for a pretty high stress level. One should know and realize that before getting on the track. "There is no reason" is about the dumbest assumption you can make running the Nordschleife. I have seen snow in June, terrential rain on a single part of the track, that flooded the track within seconds, I have seen track blockages, that you could only miss by taking to the grass (not a chance getting the car to stop in time) and lots, and lots, and lots of brand new cars with the customs plates being driven off by the wrecker. Looking "distinctly second hand". I'm sure each and every one of the drivers was sure, that "there is no reason"!

[JimD]

Perhaps it is my inexperience in driving this track but I have driven a little on a different track and seen one person put his M roadster into the guard rail. I accept that other drivers are an issue as is traffic. But I also suggest that any time we are behind the wheel we have that risk. Maybe a bit more at a track with a wide range of vehicles and vehicle speeds but isn't that true of the Autobahn too?

Jim

[EmmDrei]

Sure, Jim. I absolutely agree with you. The Autobahn is none less dangerous, actually even more so. And if you ask my honest opinion, that's why I detest the idea of having people fly over here just to enjoy the "speed thrill" in Germany. Traffic is dangerous enough (road and ring) without inexperienced tourists trying to get involved. No offence intended, but when I read some of the postings on these boards, then I KNOW, that there are users here I would not want to meet, when I am driving on the Autobahn! I am not a fan of the idea behind ED. As long as someone sees it as a "road racing" option. If people see it as a chance to visit a country and its people, I'll welcome each and every ED customer wholeheartedly. But chances are, that a certain percentage of the drivers will seriously overestimate their capabilities behind the wheel. I honestly don't care if they do that in the states or elsewhere. I do, when they end up driving in the same left lane I'm on. Let's face it... make a mistake at 200km/h and your chances are, you will not leave the wreck alive. It's not a ride in Disneyworld, it's real. And there is no "restart game" option as is on the Playstation. I agree with your "accept resonsibility for what you do" approach. But are you sure, that that will be true to all thinking about ED?

Peter