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      01-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #1
Amalfitano
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1M autocross possibilities

The 135 is fun, i love it, but it doesn't seem particularly competitive within its classing for Autocross on any of its levels...

Quick summary...

DS, though it seems it should find a way and maybe its missing the right campaign, it doesn't seem to do particularly well nationally.

STU - besides the fact that this is a spec EVO class, the car can't fully take advantage of the STU rules since 285s in the front just isn't going to happen comfortably, and would still be an underdog to the STEVOs.

BSP - if you could chop of the sunroof in BSP, maybe this would help bridge that STEVO gap, but basically it's the same deal as STU since they can boost up their power just as well.

SM - I'm not sure it's realistic to get this car anywhere close to the 2,400 pounds that the engine allows the car to get down to, and why would you do this particular project with a 40k base car...


1M classing? Stock would be interesting. They seem to place them with the thought that the E30 M3 should be in C stock and uprate each generation, but allowed the E36 to stay in C Stock. If it's the spiritual successor to the E30, then let it play in C Stock? It would look about right next to the 370Z, but it still probably wouldn't shake out that way. It'd probably end up in B Stock. And those that want it to stay in D Stock with the 135i, well that's a pipe dream.

But nothing would really stop it from playing in STU short of an exclusion. lower CG, lower weight (though we'll have to see how much came from the seats, maybe not at all which would swing this a bit more respectable), wider stance, should be able to go 285 in its sleep, more power, it really could be a great STU car. Maybe be the platform someone needs to take on the STEVOs with a RWD.

Now if only i had 47k, some get on the list bribery money, and the 10k of development money to get it started...
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      01-15-2011, 03:17 PM   #2
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I'm confident there will be many autocross and road-course developed 1M parts.

Competitiveness in a SCCA classes is always tricky with new models. They are always tweaking, and sometimes a new part comes out that you can really use to your advantage, unless you are stock class of course.

But who stays stock? :P
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      01-15-2011, 03:21 PM   #3
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Wont it be classed with the M3s?
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      01-15-2011, 04:07 PM   #4
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I don't see the 1M being in DS. The 335i is in F-Stock while the M3 is in A-Stock. Stock and STU would be a good fit, at least on the regional level.

edit: According to the 2011 stock class listings on SCCA.com, the 335i is moving to D-Stock and the 135i is staying.

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But who stays stock? :P
Stock class allows some mods

Front sway, cat-back exhaust, shocks, race rubber is more than enough!
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      01-15-2011, 05:06 PM   #5
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I put my money on the 1M going straight to A-stock.

They really need to seriously revamp the classes. DS and CS have way too many dissimilar cars in them now.

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      01-16-2011, 12:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalfitano View Post
The 135 is fun, i love it, but it doesn't seem particularly competitive within its classing for Autocross on any of its levels...
Thought some guys were doing quite well in D stock with their 135s.
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      01-16-2011, 02:56 PM   #7
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The 135 is very competitive in D-Stock, especially on the regional level. It even won ladies nationals in '08.
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      01-17-2011, 11:35 AM   #8
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There's always the caveat that a particular class could be weak or strong driver talent wise, and it's usually difficult to tell just what qualifies a strong appearance at Nationals...

I'll plead ignorance if there was a National Tour win by a 135i at any of the classing levels, but i did not come across one.

I won't claim to have a local MKE member's argument perfectly paraphrased, but a 2008 campaign in the 1 by a previous national champion netted something like a two second loss, and not from coning away a champion run.

I don't doubt the car's regional competitiveness, just the to the limits of preparation National competitiveness.

CHI/MKE has a generous helping of Nationally competitive drivers too, including in open Street Tire in Milwaukee, where your car being closer to the top of its class is even more imperative when you're in a PAX comparison. By all means it's all still fun, but the only way to think the PAX is "right" for your car is to have National credentials.

Anyways, this wasn't a thread intended to demolish the 135i autocross possibilities unilaterally, more wondering if the 1M would have National champion aspirations.
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      02-11-2011, 01:37 AM   #9
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I've really enjoyed my 135i in regional events running DS, even had some success, but mostly because no one else was showing up. Even if the car wasn't heavy and rolled a lot, I'm no hot shoe. I do have fun.

The 1M seems like a candidate for exclusion if indeed only 600 of them come to the US. Right now, I'm wondering if I should try to do another ED for a seemingly ideal machine, but don't see it lining up at all with timing of other life events and low production.

If I did manage to get one, it might be tempting to take it to STU, although that is a lot of money to take racing.

Probably would have a higher fun-to-dollar ratio if I just take my much more depreciated 25K mileage 135i to STU, just to see what it is like to compete without tossing a car from side to side...

Right now I'm thinking the 10K would be better spent on the following than on helping the depreciation of a new 1M:
  • LSD installation $4-5K
  • Coil overs, plates, brace $3K
  • ECU flash $1K
  • Wheels and 140UTG tires $3-4K
Damn, that's more like $11-13K. Need to look for some deals! What did I forget?

Here are the rules if you want to follow along. Go to page 81.

Anyone know a good STU prep thread for the 135i? (searching...)
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      02-11-2011, 01:58 AM   #10
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Can't do an ECU flash that raises boost levels in STU.
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      02-11-2011, 02:17 AM   #11
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Well that was definitely one of my questions - does the new Cobb flash have an "STU legal" map like I've read about for the rally cars? Is the "stage 1" map "directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically"? I agree it seems so, but then there are these STi guys.

So a JB4 eliminates that issue, right? Or is that a problem too? And what about this stuff in FastTrack, I can't say I quite get it yet.

Did I miss some protest on all Cobb flashes? Do they successfully use "these allowances"? I think the allowances are about manipulating the fuel pressure, either directly electronically or mechanically (but not both), or by manipulating the air mass sensor reading?

Can't say I know much about ECU hacking.

Edit: No Stage 1, I see that now. Too bad, AP flash sounds much nice than piggyback. Anyone know about "STU Maps"?
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      02-11-2011, 01:06 PM   #12
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I think the gains from a map with no alteration of boost levels would be so minimal that it wouldn't be worth pursuing.
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      02-11-2011, 01:07 PM   #13
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I'm sure the answer is NO!, but i'm curious if the max boost doesn't change but instead simply doesn't taper off towards the redline as much would be allowed...

That said, if all you end up getting out of the ECU is better throttle response, i'm not sure it's worth the 1k, but when every hundreth counts, it would be an addition. I got pretty good at dealing with the throttle by wire, but our cars don't allow us to left foot brake effectively, so the throttle software upgrade might be needed with an LSD.

If you have a steptronic, the LSD is bolt up. Should be able to do a quaife install for less than your estimate, but with the final drive replacement needed for the manuals, i'm not even sure that install is STU legal. I think so, but that final drive cannot change i'm pretty sure.

Also, while you're down there, might as well swap out the subframe bushings for Motorsport or at least M3 bushings, swap out the rear sway for something a bit stiffer since that needs the subframe dropped to do. I think the other bushings all around shouldn't be too bad (500 or so), but i know the subframe ones go for a LOT.

Can't do both the control arms and camber plates, so the front tire is a fresh experiment. The Berk build did 265 RS3's up front with the APEX ARC-8 18x9's, then 285's in back with 18x9.5s i believe, but i don't recall if that included M3 control arms for the fit. It definitely had a fender roll and they described pulling off a tab in there too.

The RS3 might be the tire, but again that's probably up in the air. They by reputation need to build some heat (which our cars do swimingly), but are they for sure better than the Star Spec or AD08 for our particular cars? Berk proved they are great for Street Tire Road Courses, but with Autocross (especially in CHI/MKE where at least a third of our season is pretty cold), it's still up in the air.

BUT, RS3 and ARC-8's would be about 2k-2.4k, so not that bad. If the 265 doesn't fit though, it's 255 Star Specs or AD08's. I guess the RE-11 might be good for the 1 but i don't see too much praise for them.

E46 M3 guys are probably a good source for info. Go from the quaife to an OS Gilken for no compromise LSD work. I'd probably go square instead of going up to 285's in back. Ground Control has a DA kit with camber plates up front and rear control arm replacements in back that i think are perfectly STU Legal for about 2.2k, or go with AST 4100's or maybe TC Kline's DA.

Spring Rates are up in the air. TC Kline recommend's 350 front with 700 rear with the upgraded bushings, but i couldn't tell if that was truly 135 specific or more ballpark. I think a 2.2 versus 2.5 model would net a higher front spring rate, but I've heard Bob Tunnell and TC Kline preach that Bimmers don't need as much spring up front as you'd think, but who knows if that truly applies to the 1 or if that's much more their E36 M3 experience.

Either way, it would be fun if I had the funds. It's just a helluva experiment. The AST's would be resell-able, springs if not overworked, Probably the LSD if you didn't have to ship your core back. Wheels in decent shape... But obviously a straight up STU built 1 wouldn't get much return on investment when sold. But then again it could just become a race it till it drops car and not worry about selling it... Would be great to get rid of the sunroof, put a widebody kit on it, run some boost (sounds like a 1m, whoops).

Or of course, stick with D-Stock for a while, wait for some 1m's to become used, see how affordable they are (probably not very for awhile), and maybe in 3-4 years get in one.
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      02-11-2011, 01:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalfitano View Post
Would be great to get rid of the sunroof, put a widebody kit on it, run some boost (sounds like a 1m, whoops).

Or of course, stick with D-Stock for a while, wait for some 1m's to become used, see how affordable they are (probably not very for awhile), and maybe in 3-4 years get in one.
Yeah, that damn sunroof. You forgot losing about 300 lbs and getting rid of weight up high. I bought two MINIs spec'ed to order (second one after the LSD came out) and neither had a sunroof. My wife doesn't like sunroofs (selling point of the 1M). Thanks BMW NA!

If I were to pull the fenders or otherwise change the body, then yeah, I probably should plan to run it out to >100K until it is time to sell it to some teenager with more funds than sense.

If I decide to get a 1M, I'd really like to repeat the ED experience I had with my 135i. It doesn't hurt that my sister and her wonderful family are living in Munich (they will probably be moving to Berlin this year, but that's just up the autobahn).

It doesn't look like my trailer hitch will transfer over from the 135i to the 1M (it ties to the rear cross bar just behind the diff, no such metal on the 1M) but adding a hitch to a 1M is kind of... not sure that is allowed.

So again, thanks for the tips above. After 2.5 years running DS, STU is looking more and more attractive (don't expect to be in the hunt, just go for a Sunday drive). I guess if I want to play with the ECU, I'll have to do that outside of competition. Too bad, seems like big bang for the bucks!
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