C&D: 1M Takes Down Audi TT RS and Infiniti IPL G37 in First 1M Comparo Win

[p1rob]

^+1,audi ttrs owners slating the 1m,shut the door on the way out

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by mad chemist

Both TTRS & 1M have identical lease payments in the UK due to higher residual value of the TTRS (I know I have quotes for both).

Mad.

Good for you! in canada there is a good 25%, but the price of both cars are alot cheaper for us.. my 1M is 58000$ with nav and pdi, the tt-rs will go around 80000 with options..

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by bmw13

As I have said once before... no one can match the over-all balance that BMW puts into their M cars. They do not just accelerate fast, they do not just weigh less, they do not just handle amazingly etc... its the overall balance of all of those things and everything else you can expect from BMW. I am a BMW driver for life until I see a better balance of what really matters in sports car.. else where..

+1

[hwelvaar]

There's one item that C&D forgot to test and quote:

points for power slides

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by sakimano

In the quarter mile trapping at 110mph or so, you're moving about 150 feet per a second, or about 15 feet per tenth. These cars are about 14-15 feet long. In other words, one tenth of a second = a 1 car length win. 5 tenths = 5 car lengths.


The TT-RS won the quarter mile by:

9 car lengths over the 1M
18 car lengths over the bloated G douchemobile

So...what were you (and C&D) smoking when you said the 1M smoked the TT-RS?

It smoked it.. THE PRICE!!!!, if you pay more for a car you expect more!!, the 1M package is perfect for the price, power, hanling and brakes..

[Raine]

Originally Posted by YVES1M

+1

How much is the TT-RS in Canada?

I know the 1M is like 53,600 and the TT-S is like 57,900.

...

LOL

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

Well, I caved. Here’s my analysis. Let me approach each one of your points:
1. No roll-out was documented in the C&D. You are speculating on this, based on a generalization you have made towards US mags. US standards, drag racing and for magazines, allow a 1 foot rollout. For sub 5 second street cars this gives them a 0.3-0.4 second advantage compared to a test that does not use a roll out (i.e. most of the rest of the world).
2. Let's assume that this is a universal fact for all DSG’s. As the previous posts have stated, the acceleration is based upon the combined effect of DSG + AWD + launch control. DSG will provide a 0.2-0.4 second advantage to 60 over an equivalent manual transmission car. It is just one (manual) shift time that is saved.
3. Previous references provided in this thread give 0-60 times. One of my points: you haven't looked at all of the evidence, including basic facts regarding the 1m. We are comparing appropriately. Europe uses 0-100 km/hr which is 62 mph. The difference for a sub 5 second street car for this 2 mph is about 0.2-0.3 seconds.
4. I agree with this point, but it doesn’t add to your conclusion that this is a ringer. In fact, it points to possible variation with contextual conditions (such as environmental/road conditions, which cannot all be accounted for in whatever physics calculations you are making) that may affect improved performance for the TTRS, as compared with previous results found by other magazines and owners. Most of this is irrelevant with "apples to apples" testing which this was. Do not compare ANY US to EU or other numbers without these changes or a disclaimer.
5. If we’re still referring to the 0-60 times, which is the main focus of this ongoing discussion/thread, this is absolutely affected by the launch control and good traction control. You go on to make a case for the effect of hp/wt ratio, but it’s not the only factor in this equation, as I stated above in this posting. Good traction control absolutely helps 0-60 times but after that it is a power to weight battle. Same goes for AWD.
6. Agreed. A high rear weight bias such as most Porsches helps rear traction and launching, NOT a front wheel bias. This Audi is incredibly front biased.

Again, I’ve already pointed out the invalid premises here. Just like a witness in court, you lose your credibility when you speculate and make up the facts as you have quite clearly here: Now BMW is not innocent here either. They admit the overboost feature can crank up the torque on the 1M by about 15 ft lb to about 385 ft lb, but it leaves the hp unaffected. I strongly believe it also gains about 15 hp, making it closer to 350 hp. Those figures give simulations (see below) that agree pretty well with actual delivered results.

Post up the proof. You are making conclusions with missing data and inaccurate assertions. As I said, you may very well be right, but to me, there's no difference between your post and a post that says: it's a ringer because it's a TT. I would be happy to post up some of the physics based car simulations I ran to verify and produce the estimates above. But as far as simply realizing that something is very fishy here all you need is some common sense and knowledge about power to weight ratios. Heck even just some comparative knowledge of what some other sport cars obtain would do the trick. This thing is not just 5-10% off (and by "off" I mean underrated).

+++++++++ 10000000000

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by sakimano

Road and Track, Car and Driver and Motor Trend ALL use a 1 foot rollout when testing cars. It's in the test notes.

They do so because that's what the dragstrip does (approximately).



lol thanks.

Interestingly the M 'won' by 14 points...

6 on price, which was guesswork as we don't know the price of the TTRS here yet
3 on 'flexibility' whatever the hell that is (powertrain)
4 on back seat space (these are performance coupes...who cares)

I think I'd trade those all in for a car that was miles better looking, did not have an econobox quality interior (CD's words about the 1M)...and is BUSLENGTHS faster.

This is one weird review. I can't wait for the letters from the people who hate Car&Driver for being BMW biased...C&D just served themselves up on a platter with this one.

GO BUY YOURSELF AN AUDI!!!

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by darkvaderr

1) the 1M and TT-RS got the same marks for interior.
2) the TT-RS costs way more.
3) if you could read, the 1M won because IT DRIVES BETTER.
But by your logic, to hell with the TT-RS, keep going up the price ladder, you should'nt buy anything but a Porsche GT3, its faster, better looking, and has a better interior than the TT-RS

If you can't stand that your fav car company puts out a car with mad acceleration, gorgeous bodywork, yet still doesn't drive as good as a cheaper BMW, go complain to audi. If you base a cars worth on their acceleration, go buy a drag car. Leave DRIVING to the rest of us.



Edit: you live in Canada, the TT-S is already more expensive than the 1M here, why don't you enlighten me on how that the TT-S compares to the 1M

HAHA!!! LOVE THAT POST, BTW I drove a TT-S and there is notting impressive about it.. looks good but it<s vw gti under..

[YVES1M]

Originally Posted by Raine

How much is the TT-RS in Canada?

I know the 1M is like 53,600 and the TT-S is like 57,900.

...

LOL

around 74k + options and pdi..

[Mowse]

oh man this car is more impressive by the day. I don't know why so many were critical of it when debuted in January.

For the (on paper) performance I don't know how BMW is selling it for only $47k. To me it's a freekin bargain.

Because of my Oct build date I bought a used Cayman S. I totally love it but am torn as to whether to keep it (save $12k) or trade it in on the 1M.

Would not have had this problem if I got a May delivery as I was originally promised. But to be fair it was a shock to my dealer as well when build dates were announced.

Dang I'm loving this car.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by Raine

How much is the TT-RS in Canada?

I know the 1M is like 53,600 and the TT-S is like 57,900.

...

LOL

I agree...the TTS is a gigantic ripoff. For the same price you could have an S5 or S4.

[///1M]

Just saw a 135i on the road and I realized just how uncommon they are around here. The color appeared to be space gray, and let me just say that it looked GREAT! Has me wondering whether white will do the car justice...because suddenly black seems the way to go.

[///1M]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

i'm giddy! c&d just posted the ipl's video. can't wait for the 1m's and ttrs'. here's the ipl for those who wish to pay their respects to the dead: http://blog.caranddriver.com/

Does anyone else find the drumbeat in the background to be eerie, like a death march?

[Vasil]

What's with the manual HVAC controls on the 1M test car??

[///1M]

Originally Posted by Vasil

What's with the manual HVAC controls on the 1M test car??

it's just a prototype

[formula M]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I agree...the TTS is a gigantic ripoff. For the same price you could have an S5 or S4.

Those^ are not even RS models.

The TT RS is quite sophisticated, perhaps too much. It performs! Maybe even too easily.

I bet audi will go threw what bmw has recently learned, that their core market wants a rawer experience, with perhaps the sophistication hidden well, or on tap.




Also, a highly efficient 5 cylinder, all-wheel-drive Audi quattro..? Yes please! The price is the only downfall, & perhaps it's styling (once again, more merkur'ish, or gruppeB).


You can recognize it's price, & still have valid arguments, or persuasive dabates. We know it's pricey, but it is still a car. A really good car, lets not forget that.

[gazz]

Originally Posted by formula M

more merkur'ish, or gruppeB).[/size]

Pls excuse my ignorance but - What is merkur and gruppeB for that matter?


Watch for a 1M type, as in back to basics and lightweight, quattro coupe to come from Audi soon.

[gazz]

Whoa. Just noticed 23,261 views for this thread. I'm impressed. Well done Swamp and Super.

[foxyman]

Originally Posted by ///1M

it's just a prototype

or different market spec, in South Africa and I think in Germany the manual controls are standard with ACC an option....

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by gazz

Watch for a 1M type, as in back to basics and lightweight, . . .

I don't think many would describe the 1M like that.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by gazz

Pls excuse my ignorance but - What is merkur and gruppeB for that matter?


Watch for a 1M type, as in back to basics and lightweight, quattro coupe to come from Audi soon.

Groupe B or Gruppe B are generally rally/race style cars in "function"...I think what he means it in the "look" of the Audi RS series of cars they should get back to that functional "racing look", ie widebody kits, cool front rear diffusers, etc, etc....

Gruppe B Audi Quattro S1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B#Group_B

the 1M even has some Group B styling with the widebody style and wickedly styled front bumper.

Originally Posted by conneem-TT

I don't think many would describe the 1M like that.

1M is more "back to basics" than the current M3 in that regard. So Audi making one is not that out of the question...isn't it called the RS3???