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      04-03-2011, 04:22 PM   #1
Dackelone
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Thumbs up My new Michelin PS3’s 225’s & 255’s…



Hi Guys,

Well… I needed to replace my run flats and I really did not know what to get. At first I thought those Conti DW’s looked good and the price seemed decent. But then I started to read some negative posts about the soft sidewalls and poor steering response. I know a lot of the 1er German guys run Hancooks – but I have heard they don’t really have that much traction (dry or wet) – so they were out too.

One thing I really loved about the RSC (run flat) Dunlap’s was their sharp turn in and steering response. After some more research I ended up deciding on not skimping with my tire choice. By all accounts Michelin’s PS2’s are one of THE best tires out there for our cars. I think there IS a reason why BMW and Porsche choose this tire as OE. When I checked with my local tire dealer… they told me that Michelin now has the PS3’s which have replaced the PS2. PS3’s it would be!

I was seriously considering getting the Conti Sport Contact-3 tires… but the Michelin’s were only 50 euros more for a set of four. So… I went with Michelin PS3’s.

I also decided to go with the 225/255 wider meats. When I asked the BMW Zentrum about those sizes, they replied a big NEIN! When I asked my tire dealer… he said to go with 225/245’s. Because when he looked up the rear tires it says only to go with a 245 on 8.5 wide wheels. But I decided to listen to all the great posts here and trust my fellow 1addicts! I am glad I did!

The guy at the tire dealer was asking me what kind of five series I had… when I told him I had a 1er he did not believe me at first! I think I am the first guy to mount such wide meats on a 1er over here. Especially since TUV would not approve of such large tires on OEM wheel widths. But everything worked and I don’t have to worry about any stinking TUV! Since I have cover plates.

My tire shop included a free 4 wheel alignment check. The front settings were dead on but my right rear toe was out of spec. Perhaps this was why my car was also so squirrely at high speeds. When I would travel over bumps or dips about 120 mph to 155 mph it felt like the front toe was changing. Now this feeling is 90% gone. I think this is due more to the larger tires than the right rear toe being off.

I got my PS3’s mounted last week. Since then I have driven some 1,500 kms. This weekend I drove to Essen (450 kms each way) to go to the Techno Classica car show. It was a perfect opportunity to break the new tires in.

When I first got the tires… They felt really smooth. They ride much smoother than run flats do. The best way I can describe it, is that the run flats feel like they are made out of very hard rubber. Almost like the run flats are not round but square. While the PS3’s feel like good sticky tires should, sporty, direct and compliant over bumps. Just like everyone has said here… the difference between run flats and non run flats – is night and day. Gone is the bouncy hopping ride with run flats. When I travel over a small dip in the road – I don’t feel the DTC kicking in anymore. Now the car feels much more comfortable to drive over bumps and small dips in the road surface. I am happy with the PS3’s.


I do miss the run flats high speed turn in response though. But the PS3’s are darn close in (steering, turn in) performance. And in all other performance aspects the Michelin’s are such a better performance tire. Heads and shoulders above the OE Dunlap’s.

Those first few hundred kilometers had me wondering IF I had made a mistake. Because it took the Michelin’s about 400 kms before they felt “good”. Braking and cornering was kind of scary at first. Literally the first 10 kms on the Autobahn I came upon a Ferrari Testarossa with dealer plates on who wanted to race me. It took all my restraint to not race him. lol But really after about 300 or 400 kms the Michelin’s really came into their own. I drove very fast and confidently on the way back from Essen.

One plus is that the larger tire size has seemed to give me a 3 kph higher top speed. lol Now my car does 243 on my GPS where before it would only do 240 kph. Not a big deal. The larger tires seem to work better at high speeds too. I don’t have that toe change when I travel over bumps at warp 8 speeds.

I also really like the way the larger tires fill the wheel wells. It gives my car a meaner look/stance.

All and all I am very happy with these tires. Put simply the PS3’s I think are one of the best tires out on the market today. I did get two nice surprises when I purchased my tires. Seems Michelin is giving a free tire guaranty AND 30 euros mail in rebate. The 30 euros is for free gas. My check is in the mail so to speak! lol

Ok, here are some photos…


Dackel



Special delivery… noop! This wasn’t the tire(!) I ordered. lol






Reifen-Wagner in BA…


Four wheel alignment rack...




A nice reminder to check your wheel bolts in 50 kms.






Thread profile of the PS3’s…



New PS3’s - 225’s and 255’s mounted on the car…








Tire sizes…





Dackel



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      04-03-2011, 04:42 PM   #2
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Great post as usual Dackel. I just bought the pugmeister for our first anniversary (25 March) a set of Dunlop Direzza star spec non-rfts. I thought of doing the PSSs as I had the PS2 RFTS which were great, but my good friend here with a 335i pulled the trigger on the Dunlops a couple weeks ago, and we try to run the same tyre sets so we always have 'spares'. When you live out in the boonies, you have to be creative. The PSSs remain on my wishlist though and I am happy to learn that your PS3s are working perfectly for you. My Dunlops come in on Wednesday along with the BMW PS so I am very excited about the upcoming weeks. Will certainly take my mind off the 3-4 shipping wait for the iPad2!!!. Frankfurt plans are coming along so hopefully see you then!
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      04-03-2011, 05:19 PM   #3
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Thanks for the post and pics.
A quick look at tire rack i see this.

In 255's:
DW's weigh in at 23lbs and $238
vs
Ps3's weigh in at 26lbs and $279

Thats going to be tough call when it comes to replacing my RFT's

PS...can you post what country these were made it?
Thanks
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      04-03-2011, 05:24 PM   #4
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I am pretty sure the Michelin's were made in Germany. In fact there is a huge Michelin factory in Bamberg. lol I will look on the tire sidewall tomorrow though.
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      04-03-2011, 05:54 PM   #5
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      04-04-2011, 02:14 AM   #6
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Nice post dackel and the tires look great. I'm considering, esp after yesterdays back road adventure, of switching my tires. I find the OEM bridgestones grip well enough but in tight turns at speed they give too much pop and jostle the car too much over ruts and such.
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      04-04-2011, 03:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
I haven't had Pirellis in quite a while, but I have the had the Dunlops they are a bad joke in terms of construction, longevity and performance. Dunlop is not a top tier tire manufacturer and hasn't been for decades.
Which Dunlops have you tried? The OEM RFTs or the Star Specs?

If the latter, you are part of a very small minority that doesn't like them. Car and Driver tested 9 "affordable summer tires" against Michelin PS2s, and found the Star Specs to be "head and shoulders above the other tires, including the benchmark Michelin PS2s."

So your comment about "tiers" prompted a bit of research on my part and I discovered that, while it's true that Dunlop is considered a Tier 2 tire manufacturer, the whole tier system is really not meaningful at all from the standpoint of the consumer. It's just industry lingo.

I found this from an article on the subject:

In its recent testimony before the International Trade Commission (ITC), the American Coalition for Free Trade in Tires responded to a United Steelworkers' petition asking for quotas on Chinese consumer tire imports. The coalition tried to explain our industry's tier system. Here's what it had to say.
"From time to time in time in this debate, you will hear various tires and tire companies being described as tier one, two or three. The tiers are used in the U.S. tire market to describe differences in terms of price and profit margin. Tiers do not correspond to performance."
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      04-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #8
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Did you also have as an option the Michelin PSS? I'm wondering if there is a difference. The PS3 will not be available in the US except as OEM replacements on certain vehicles.
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      04-04-2011, 10:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Did you also have as an option the Michelin PSS? I'm wondering if there is a difference. The PS3 will not be available in the US except as OEM replacements on certain vehicles.
I think those (PSS) become available after 15 April at tirerack. That's what I noted about a week or so ago.
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      04-04-2011, 10:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
Not all sizes of the PS3 will be available in the US. The primary emphasis here is the PSS.
I meant the PSS in my earlier posts and have edited to make that clear.
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      04-04-2011, 02:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix
Not all sizes of the PS3 will be available in the US. The primary emphasis here is the PSS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogijet View Post
I meant the PSS in my earlier posts and have edited to make that clear.

I did not even think to ask about those PSS tires. I do have a German brochure from Michelin... about thier tire warranty... it shows a PSS tire. I am not sure if they are made in the 225/255 sizes.

I am really happy that I went with the PS3's.


Dackel
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      04-04-2011, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix
Not all sizes of the PS3 will be available in the US. The primary emphasis here is the PSS.





I did not even think to ask about those PSS tires. I do have a German brochure from Michelin... about thier tire warranty... it shows a PSS tire. I am not sure if they are made in the 225/255 sizes.

I am really happy that I went with the PS3's.


Dackel
The PSSs are available from Tire Rack in those sizes, Dackel. Set is US$1,034. They now have an estimated availability date of 8 April.
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      05-24-2011, 02:39 PM   #13
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225/255 on OEM rims

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

Hi Guys,

Well… I needed to replace my run flats and I really did not know what to get. At first I thought those Conti DW’s looked good and the price seemed decent. But then I started to read some negative posts about the soft sidewalls and poor steering response. I know a lot of the 1er German guys run Hancooks – but I have heard they don’t really have that much traction (dry or wet) – so they were out too.

One thing I really loved about the RSC (run flat) Dunlap’s was their sharp turn in and steering response. After some more research I ended up deciding on not skimping with my tire choice. By all accounts Michelin’s PS2’s are one of THE best tires out there for our cars. I think there IS a reason why BMW and Porsche choose this tire as OE. When I checked with my local tire dealer… they told me that Michelin now has the PS3’s which have replaced the PS2. PS3’s it would be!

I was seriously considering getting the Conti Sport Contact-3 tires… but the Michelin’s were only 50 euros more for a set of four. So… I went with Michelin PS3’s.

I also decided to go with the 225/255 wider meats. When I asked the BMW Zentrum about those sizes, they replied a big NEIN! When I asked my tire dealer… he said to go with 225/245’s. Because when he looked up the rear tires it says only to go with a 245 on 8.5 wide wheels. But I decided to listen to all the great posts here and trust my fellow 1addicts! I am glad I did!

The guy at the tire dealer was asking me what kind of five series I had… when I told him I had a 1er he did not believe me at first! I think I am the first guy to mount such wide meats on a 1er over here. Especially since TUV would not approve of such large tires on OEM wheel widths. But everything worked and I don’t have to worry about any stinking TUV! Since I have cover plates.

My tire shop included a free 4 wheel alignment check. The front settings were dead on but my right rear toe was out of spec. Perhaps this was why my car was also so squirrely at high speeds. When I would travel over bumps or dips about 120 mph to 155 mph it felt like the front toe was changing. Now this feeling is 90% gone. I think this is due more to the larger tires than the right rear toe being off.

I got my PS3’s mounted last week. Since then I have driven some 1,500 kms. This weekend I drove to Essen (450 kms each way) to go to the Techno Classica car show. It was a perfect opportunity to break the new tires in.

When I first got the tires… They felt really smooth. They ride much smoother than run flats do. The best way I can describe it, is that the run flats feel like they are made out of very hard rubber. Almost like the run flats are not round but square. While the PS3’s feel like good sticky tires should, sporty, direct and compliant over bumps. Just like everyone has said here… the difference between run flats and non run flats – is night and day. Gone is the bouncy hopping ride with run flats. When I travel over a small dip in the road – I don’t feel the DTC kicking in anymore. Now the car feels much more comfortable to drive over bumps and small dips in the road surface. I am happy with the PS3’s.


I do miss the run flats high speed turn in response though. But the PS3’s are darn close in (steering, turn in) performance. And in all other performance aspects the Michelin’s are such a better performance tire. Heads and shoulders above the OE Dunlap’s.

Those first few hundred kilometers had me wondering IF I had made a mistake. Because it took the Michelin’s about 400 kms before they felt “good”. Braking and cornering was kind of scary at first. Literally the first 10 kms on the Autobahn I came upon a Ferrari Testarossa with dealer plates on who wanted to race me. It took all my restraint to not race him. lol But really after about 300 or 400 kms the Michelin’s really came into their own. I drove very fast and confidently on the way back from Essen.

One plus is that the larger tire size has seemed to give me a 3 kph higher top speed. lol Now my car does 243 on my GPS where before it would only do 240 kph. Not a big deal. The larger tires seem to work better at high speeds too. I don’t have that toe change when I travel over bumps at warp 8 speeds.

I also really like the way the larger tires fill the wheel wells. It gives my car a meaner look/stance.

All and all I am very happy with these tires. Put simply the PS3’s I think are one of the best tires out on the market today. I did get two nice surprises when I purchased my tires. Seems Michelin is giving a free tire guaranty AND 30 euros mail in rebate. The 30 euros is for free gas. My check is in the mail so to speak! lol

Ok, here are some photos…


Dackel







Dackel


Where did you get these installed? I can't get anyone in Stuttgart to install the 225/255 combo on OEM size rims.
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      10-18-2011, 07:28 AM   #14
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From my Stelvio thread... I thought this tire question was better answered here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RimasRS View Post
sorry will ask few offtopic q's about tires what you can tell about their longlivity and grip on the wet? With stock RF's I can't floor 3'rd gear on oem software that makes me nervous and think very bad things about car stability.

Get a set of Michelin PS2's/PS3's or PSS and you will not have to worry about spinning the rear tires. They will just grip like mad. Yea... you will find situations when you can spin the rear tires... but not like with RFT's. Espcially in the cold temps.. the Michelins are the way better tire(choice).

With my Dunlap RFT's, I never really felt that they were unsafe. You did get the rear tires to "light up" at times... They also made the rear of the car bounce and skip and hop over bad uneven road surfaces. All (well 90%) of that is gne with the PS3's. When you felt the rear end "fish tail" or wander under hard accell(with RFT's)... but I attributed that to more of a polished road surface(high traffic) and wet conditions we often have here in Germany. Yea... with the PS3's even though they are much wider... the have A LOT more grip. With factory SW... you will find it hard to break the rear wheels loose. But with a tune - you can spin the rear tires very easy. At least with my 380 PS, 510Nm SW flash tune... the rear end is really playfull with the throttle in the first three gears. It is really quite controllable though. Nothing dangerous - the tail will just "wag" back and forth under hard accell.

What I really like about the Michelin PS3's is how much more grip they have! Tons and tons more. Even in the wet(!)... they grip like crazy. I will buy them again.

As for how long they will last... well... I bought these PS3's at the end of March. I have put about 27K kms on them so far. They came with almost 9mm of thread new. Now my fronts have 6mm's of tire thread, while teh rears only have about 2mm's. I probably could have gone further on them... but I drive really fast at times (270 to 280 kph!) and I like to have fun with the car in the turns. I never abuse the car or do power slides. I mostly drive with the DSC on. But I do like to "rotate the car" with the throttle going thru the turns. Driving to Stelvio probably cut short(off) a few thousand kms off the tires too. I had so much fun going up that damm mountain pass! I think in the states a person could get 30 to 35kms on a set easy. It also did not help my PS3's tire life that two months after buying them I got a SW flash tune and also went to the Ring.

I think I got about 18Km out of my OE Dunlap RFT's. While the rears were shot, the fornts had plenty of thread (5+mm's) but the front tires were shot too bc they made all sorts of noises (tire cupping).

Even with my rear 255's tres at only 2mm thread left (German law says you need at least 1.2mm - I believe) even in the rain they STILL grip like mad. I don't drive fast in teh rain right now. In a few days I will mount my snow tires anyway... but damm these tires are good. I will probably buy a set of PSS from TireRack over the winter. I am sold on Michelin's now. When the time comes for new snow tires next year... I think I will buy a set of Michelin Alpine's too!


Dackel
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      12-30-2011, 09:36 AM   #15
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Dackel, if you already didn't buy the Alpins, let me tell you from my personal experience that they are the best tires I have ever used in terms of transforming a car to the better. I have been driving a Peugeot 308 CC 1.6 THP Feline when I was in Turkey for two years and it is a one heavy and bad handling car (but fun in other dimensions). So, I immediately sold original Conti's which were horrible to say the least and put the Pilot Alpin 3's (winter was approaching) and boy, they were quiter, smoother than those summer Conti's and gripping like crazy with a perfect balance. I did not want the winter to end! Then when winter finally ended, as usual, and I had to buy a summer set and went with the brand new PS3s and it was practically the same story. This time differences were smaller because Pilot Alpins were already that good. I have to say I felt like the Alpins were even better than the PS3, at least on my car under those circumstances. My guess the PS3s are not that good with heavy cars driven fast at outside temperatures over 30-35 Celsius.

Now, with the 1M in Chile, I was quite surprised how well behaving the OE PS2s but I bought a second set of tires to be on the safe side, this time PSS. You can follow my first impressions there in the 1M forum, in the relevant section for tires and wheels.

There is no way going wrong with Michelins, that is my experience with different cars, climates and roads during the last 3-4 years.
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      12-30-2011, 09:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
...There is no way going wrong with Michelins, that is my experience with different cars, climates and roads during the last 3-4 years.

Thanks Ozinaldo. Yes, I have been following your PSS thread in the 1M forum. I agree with you totally! I am really impressed with Michelin tires. And they spin less then the OE tires. PSS are supposed to be better in every way over PS2's.

My rear PS3's tires are almost wornout. This summer I drove about 30K+ kms. In the Spring I will buy two rear PSS 255's to replace the worn out PS3's. The fronts are still fine 6mm's. The rear PS3's still have 3mm of thread... but anything under 4mm is not safe to drive on - on the German autobahns. You never know when you get hit by a flash rain storm or aquaplaning, Its best to have fresh rubber. Even though bare minimum is 1.2mm I believe.


For my winter setup I have 205/55HR17 Goodyear RFT tires. Those were the tires that came frm BMW's dealer winter set. Next year I will probably switch over to Michelin Alpins - bc I am now sold on Michs.
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      12-30-2011, 10:03 AM   #17
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Btw... here are some pics of my BMW winter wheel package...



My 17" square winter setup: 205/55HR17's w/TPMS...








I posted these pics(on page 2) in the 135i winter wheel thread....

Post pics of your winter tire/wheel setup
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224289
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      04-02-2012, 12:19 AM   #18
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As someone who might soon be purchasing a 135i with the M Sport package, this thread has been pretty helpful. I'm curious to know, though, what do most people do about a spare once the run-flats have been ditched, particularly on a vehicle with different sized front and back wheels?

On a related note, I have run-flats on my current car ('06 330i) and have driven on a flat one for several miles without problems. They seem to work quite well in that regard, despite all of their downsides.
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      04-02-2012, 06:11 AM   #19
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Thanks for the in-depth information and pictures. I have always run Michelin tires. I will have to what and save my pennies before switching out the RFT on my, not yet delivered, 135i.
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      04-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #20
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Location: Bayern, Germany

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Btw guys... I still in Love with my PS3's.
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      04-06-2012, 02:44 AM   #21
PUREPHAZED
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Drives: 2008 BMW 135i
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Thanks to Dackel! I love them... I was considering PSS's but PS3's are the perfect touring all-round tyre hands down. Unreal in wet conditions and amazing in the dry. If you are a spirited driver and also do tons of motorway / autobahn driving then these are for you.

Thanks to Dackels wonderful write up.

Best,

M
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      04-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #22
Dackelone
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Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thok47 View Post
As someone who might soon be purchasing a 135i with the M Sport package, this thread has been pretty helpful. I'm curious to know, though, what do most people do about a spare once the run-flats have been ditched, particularly on a vehicle with different sized front and back wheels?

On a related note, I have run-flats on my current car ('06 330i) and have driven on a flat one for several miles without problems. They seem to work quite well in that regard, despite all of their downsides.

I bought the euro spare tire/alloy wheel from my local BMW Zentrum. BMW NA does not sell the rubber tire in the US bc it does not have any DOT rating. But... you CAN order the alloy wheel and then buy a new or used tire to fit the wheel. There are also some other BMW online shops that sell a mini donut.


Dackel


........
taken from my post #27...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=346035&page=2

Hi Guys,
Well... I got a spare tire for my 135i. I was really just uneasy about driving far from home without a viable spare. My local BMW dealer hooked me up with a deal. I got a alloy 17 inch wheel/tire from an e46 and the jack kit for the 135i. I paid 220 euros for the tire & jack kit. Here are some pics and the part numbers.
Alloy e46 wheel & tire: 36 11 0 445 045 - 120 euros
jack kit 71 10 6 73 536 - 100 euros
The alloy wheel and tire are very light - about 7lbs I would guess WITH the tire! Also the rim is narrow, 3.5 inches I believe. 3.5jx17. The tire is the same height as the normal tires. When I placed them side by side the overall dia/height is the same. Plus the grey alloy wheel looks way more sexy than a steel wheel from an e60. :P
The jack kit somes with alot of stuff: the Jack & ratchet, wheel chock/wedge, torque wrench, work gloves. And directions on how to change a tire! lol
I also test fitted the mini spare to make sure it clears the 135i's big front brake calipers. It does!! This is really the way to go I think. At first I was thinking of a full size option... but that would really cut down on trunk space. IF I were to get a flat I could always throw on one of my winter tires to get me around. But this mini spare is for an emergency so I don't have to wait on AAA or ADAC to come for hours on end. I think its more for my peace of mind than anything else.





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