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      10-26-2016, 11:09 AM   #1
MightyMouseTech
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Pilot Sport 4 and 18" tire users. Getting screwed?

So, the new Pilot Sport 4 are coming out to replace the 17" and 18" Pilot Super Sports. Are we getting screwed over by Michelin and not getting offered the best tires?

It seems like they have improved over the Pilot Sport 3 to NEAR MPSS specs, but not quite.

The MPSS will still continue in some sizes, I am assuming this is because of OE commitments. And the real replacement for the MPSS (the Pilot Sport 4S) will only be offered in 19" and up sizing.

So, I feel like those of us with 18's are getting the short end of the stick.

Michelin will probably loose a lot of customers over this.

Some further reading:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...uper-Sport.htm

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...ss-Release.htm

Thoughts?
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      10-26-2016, 11:39 AM   #2
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They'll release them in 18".
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      10-26-2016, 11:53 AM   #3
MightyMouseTech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
They'll release them in 18".
I'm not so sure about that.
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      10-26-2016, 12:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech
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Originally Posted by swagon View Post
They'll release them in 18".
I'm not so sure about that.
Time will tell.

M140i/M240i still have PSS.
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      10-26-2016, 03:58 PM   #5
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HM. wonder if well see a price drop on MPSS soon.
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      10-27-2016, 01:23 PM   #6
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I say give it time. Its a brand new product. 19 inch is a popular size for sports cars so it makes sense to start with that size. Once they get initial feedback from the market you can expect to see them in all the standard sizes.
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      10-27-2016, 07:05 PM   #7
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And those of use with 17" have been getting screwed for a while. They better fill out the offering.
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      10-27-2016, 07:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
The PS4S doesnt go on sale in the United States until March, initially in 34 sizes to fit 19- and 20-inch wheels. Eventually, the PS4S will completely supplant the familiar Super Sport.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/micheli...lot-sport-4-s/
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      10-30-2016, 07:02 PM   #9
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The link above refers to the release of the Pilot Sport "4S" tire. It seems to be different to the Pilot sport "4" that is already being sold in UK and Asian regions.
PS4 seems to be the replacement for the PS3. I suppose that PS4S is replacement for PSS. Does that make sense?
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      10-31-2016, 08:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
The link above refers to the release of the Pilot Sport "4S" tire. It seems to be different to the Pilot sport "4" that is already being sold in UK and Asian regions.
PS4 seems to be the replacement for the PS3. I suppose that PS4S is replacement for PSS. Does that make sense?
From the first link:

Quote:
- While Pilot Sport 4 replaces the Pilot Sport 3, its an improvement on the Pilot Super Sport, not a new Pilot Sport 3, in design and technology. In comparative testing in 18" sizes, Pilot Sport 4 outperforms the Pilot Super Sport in 99% of everyday situations, with the added benefit of 10-15% improved wear. The other 1% is on a dry track where the Pilot Super Sport would outperform the Pilot Sport 4 by a couple of tenths of a second around a long track. For more track focused track drivers we will expand the range of Pilot Sport Cup 2 over the next few years.
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      11-01-2016, 04:19 PM   #11
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Its confusing that the names are so similar between PS4 and PS4S. It would be so easy for someone to read a recommendation for the "4S", and end up buying the "4" from the tire shop.

Anyway I have a set of the new PS4 on my E90. They are 235/45/17. I have only had them for a few days so far. So far its been a big disappointment. I find these tires have very, very soft sidewalls. I previously thought the PSS on my E82 was disappointing in road feel, but the PS4 are so soft that I could not believe it. After driving on the PS4 I start to reconsider my opinion of the PSS. PSS are not available in 17" in my country, so maybe we are being screwed.

The trouble is that I got used to Goodyear F1 Asymmetric that are about 7 years old. These tires have properly firm sidewalls. It has become a lot more difficult to buy tires like that because most current designs are based on minimising rolling resistance, unless we buy an outright sports tire.

Last edited by John_01; 11-01-2016 at 04:29 PM.
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      11-01-2016, 05:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Its confusing that the names are so similar between PS4 and PS4S. It would be so easy for someone to read a recommendation for the "4S", and end up buying the "4" from the tire shop.

Anyway I have a set of the new PS4 on my E90. They are 235/45/17. I have only had them for a few days so far. So far its been a big disappointment. I find these tires have very, very soft sidewalls. I previously thought the PSS on my E82 was disappointing in road feel, but the PS4 are so soft that I could not believe it. After driving on the PS4 I start to reconsider my opinion of the PSS. PSS are not available in 17" in my country, so maybe we are being screwed.

The trouble is that I got used to Goodyear F1 Asymmetric that are about 7 years old. These tires have properly firm sidewalls. It has become a lot more difficult to buy tires like that because most current designs are based on minimising rolling resistance, unless we buy an outright sports tire.
Damn, that bad eh? Can't wait to see a direct comparison between the PS4 and the current PSS. The PSS have pretty soft sidewalls, hopefully the PS4 are not even worse.
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      11-01-2016, 05:32 PM   #13
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I don't think many real enthusiasts will like the PS4. IMO, its better suited as a luxury car tire for people who don't drive too hard. I never tried the PS3, so possibly they have the same character.

It seems like tire companies are competing for low rolling resistance. It means the latest generation of tires mostly have curved, round sidewalls. The same thing applies for the lastest generation Goodyear Asymmetric 3 from what I have read, which is why I didn't get Goodyears again. Maybe there are some Bridgestone sport tires that may not be quite as bad. We have Bridgestone RE003 in this country that is popular as a budget performance tire, and the USA sells more tires that are suitable for autocross. It becomes a harder choice because the more sport oriented tires will generally have worse aquaplaning performance.
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      11-02-2016, 04:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
I don't think many real enthusiasts will like the PS4. IMO, its better suited as a luxury car tire for people who don't drive too hard. I never tried the PS3, so possibly they have the same character.

It seems like tire companies are competing for low rolling resistance. It means the latest generation of tires mostly have curved, round sidewalls. The same thing applies for the lastest generation Goodyear Asymmetric 3 from what I have read, which is why I didn't get Goodyears again. Maybe there are some Bridgestone sport tires that may not be quite as bad. We have Bridgestone RE003 in this country that is popular as a budget performance tire, and the USA sells more tires that are suitable for autocross. It becomes a harder choice because the more sport oriented tires will generally have worse aquaplaning performance.
Are your Michelins BMW star-spec versions?
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      11-02-2016, 05:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Are your Michelins BMW star-spec versions?
No. I didn't know there were any.
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      11-02-2016, 09:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Are your Michelins BMW star-spec versions?
There is such a thing with the PS4?

Last edited by MightyMouseTech; 11-02-2016 at 10:24 AM.
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      11-02-2016, 06:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
There is such a thing with the PS4?
Not that I am aware of, but PSS are available in star spec, obviously. And there are differences between stock, BMW or other manufacturer-specific versions.

ContiSportContact6's seem to very good, too, but neither those are available in 18" yet.
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      11-04-2016, 01:32 AM   #18
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I have talked to the tyre shop and we worked something out where the ps4 will be coming off the car on Monday. Hopefully I will be able to restore some of the cars stability and steering feel.
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      11-07-2016, 03:26 AM   #19
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Today the tires were swapped for Bridgestone RE003. AUD30 cheaper tire than the Michelin PS4. I don't think these are available in the USA. They closely resemble one of the Firestone tires, but these have a softer compound with treadwear rating = 220. My first impression is the car is more settled on these tires and the steering response is better, although they seem to be less firm than the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric (2009 product) I used previously. I need more time to evaluate them. The tire shop guy told me the PS4 is a very wide tire, so it may have affected the sidewall behaviour compared to my previous tire. Here is a pic of the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric on my car.

The tires are fitted to my E90 3 series with wheel size of 17x8.0" all round - I realise this is a 1addicts forum, sorry about that!
Attached Images
    

Last edited by John_01; 11-07-2016 at 07:42 AM.
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      01-12-2017, 11:01 AM   #20
MightyMouseTech
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One of the defining characteristics of the old PSS was the Twaron belt. That also made it harder and more expensive to build, but is a large reason why they were as good as they were.

http://michelinmedia.com/michelin-pilot-super-sport/

Quote:
To improve the tire's road-holding and braking ability and thereby its overall safety performance, even in the most extreme conditions, while also
providing excellent mileage, Michelin has uniquely combined three technologies, including two developed for tires used at the 24 Hours of Le Mans: the
Twaron fiber belt as well as the Bi-Compound tread band and the Variable Contact Patch 2.0, both of which were derived from innovations validated and
used in endurance racing (more technical details on page 9). The combination has produced compelling results that are apt to win over the most demanding
manufacturers of cars in the ultra high-performance segment.
See pp 90-91

https://books.google.ca/books?id=JqK...20tire&f=false

Looks like they will not be using that technology on the PS4.

http://www.michelin.ie/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

Quote:
a hybrid belt of Aramid and Nylon
In short, the PS4 is a cheaper built replacement that will not offer quite the same performance.
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      01-19-2017, 09:36 AM   #21
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With the exception of 245/40R18 these will only be available in 19 and 20 inch only for the launch in Spring of 2017, more sizes will follow in 2018. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport should remain available while the replacement phase happens.

The Michelin Pilot 4 will replace the Michelin Pilot Sport 3

The Michelin Pilot 4S (notice the S designation) will be replacing the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I am not so sure about not offer the same performance. My bet it is improved as it has been in the past. I am sure we will put these tires through testing this spring. What I am aware of so far is the new tire is marginally better in the dry with larger improvements in rolling resistance and wet traction performance.

Rudy

Last edited by Rudy@tirerack; 01-19-2017 at 10:00 AM.
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      01-24-2017, 05:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy@tirerack
With the exception of 245/40R18 these will only be available in 19 and 20 inch only for the launch in Spring of 2017, more sizes will follow in 2018. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport should remain available while the replacement phase happens.

The Michelin Pilot 4 will replace the Michelin Pilot Sport 3

The Michelin Pilot 4S (notice the S designation) will be replacing the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I am not so sure about not offer the same performance. My bet it is improved as it has been in the past. I am sure we will put these tires through testing this spring. What I am aware of so far is the new tire is marginally better in the dry with larger improvements in rolling resistance and wet traction performance.

Rudy
Thanks for the info.

I was just going to post the information from Matt Farah's column, where he also said that 18's are scheduled for 2018. http://www.thedrive.com/gear-up/7083...pilot-sport-4s
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