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      04-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #1
bogart
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17x8.5 APEX ARC-8

http://www.apexraceparts.com/ARC-8-1...eel_p_106.html

Will I be able to fit 17x8.5 w/ 40mm offset APEX ARC-8 wheels for a square setup? I will be mostly driving on the street, with some track use. I'm basically looking to get rid of some unsprung weight, and I love the look of these wheels. Will a 17" wheel look funny without a drop?

As far as suspension, it is all stock, but I do plan on the vorshlag camber plates and e93 m3 anti-roll bar very soon, and possibly doing some of the other m3 bits. Other than that the rest of the suspension will stay the same.

What would be the best tire selection? APEX recommends a 235, 245, or 255. What do you guys think?

Also, is the satin black basically a matte black finish? How do you think that will look on SGM?
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      04-05-2011, 10:15 AM   #2
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SGM is a little dark for black wheels imo. If you know what kind of tire you want check to see if it's offered in those sizes, the middle size - 245 would probably be best. Good luck with your weight reduction.
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      04-05-2011, 05:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsublime View Post
SGM is a little dark for black wheels imo. If you know what kind of tire you want check to see if it's offered in those sizes, the middle size - 245 would probably be best. Good luck with your weight reduction.
I am running similar spec wheels. 17x8.5 et40 with 255/40 17 Dunlop Star Spec all around. You will need a minor roll in the rear. I would say 2 to 3mm. Rear fender are thick and much harder to roll than the fronts. In front you will need camber plates to clear without rubbing. I am currently running 2.5* without any issues.
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      04-05-2011, 09:51 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lubo View Post
I am running similar spec wheels. 17x8.5 et40 with 255/40 17 Dunlop Star Spec all around. You will need a minor roll in the rear. I would say 2 to 3mm. Rear fender are thick and much harder to roll than the fronts. In front you will need camber plates to clear without rubbing. I am currently running 2.5* without any issues.
Why did you decide to go with the 255 vs. a 245 or 235 that may fit without modification?
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      04-05-2011, 10:04 PM   #5
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Not to speak for Lubo, but it would've been the same reason i was considering that size and combo...

width wins with racing

If you want to get down to the facts, call Eddy. He's awesome and will get you correct. He knows the 1 series, and can point you towards other 1 owners who have tried similar things.

If this is a looks and street setup only, square up 245's or 235's. If you want the best cornering you can have, get camber plates and throw 255's up front and roll that rear.

I opted for 18s to get the most rear rubber i could and found a great deal on some 275/35/18s. APEX knows what they're doing and gave us a perfect offset rear wheel where that 275 literally fits with no modifications.
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      04-06-2011, 07:47 AM   #6
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Why did you decide to go with the 255 vs. a 245 or 235 that may fit without modification?
My previous setup was 225/255 Star Spec. I simply didn't want to give up any traction in the rear, and I wanted to be able to rotate tires. Adding camber plates was only possible solution. I went with 17s for two reasons. Lighter weight and cheaper to replace tires.

Last year I participated in 5 HPDE events and about 10 Auto-X events. My tires lasted around 8k miles. Believe it or not but the fronts wore out before rears, especially at the outer shoulder. I probably would be able to squeeze another 1 to 2K out of rears as they've just touched wear bars.

Not to mention that I had to adjust my driving style before as it was very easy to overpower front tires at any event. I've yet to attend a HPDE event but after some runs at Auto-X I can tell you that I will be able to push the car harder on the track and therefore have more fun. It is all about adrenaline rush
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      04-06-2011, 01:53 PM   #7
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It is all about adrenaline rush
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      04-08-2011, 02:24 PM   #8
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I'll chime in here asap. Another shipment came in, and we're short on staff this week.
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      04-08-2011, 03:30 PM   #9
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I'll chime in here asap. Another shipment came in, and we're short on staff this week.
Thank you... I'm basically looking for a good square set-up to be able to rotate tires and decrease understeer, maximum practical width that requires little or no modification. Like I said in the OP, I do plan on doing Vorshlag plates prior to getting the wheels... as I know that is probably one of the requirements to fit an 8.5 up front. Any way to fit 9?! haha
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      04-08-2011, 06:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
Thank you... I'm basically looking for a good square set-up to be able to rotate tires and decrease understeer, maximum practical width that requires little or no modification. Like I said in the OP, I do plan on doing Vorshlag plates prior to getting the wheels... as I know that is probably one of the requirements to fit an 8.5 up front. Any way to fit 9?! haha
Yes, camber plates are a must for what you're trying to do. The 17x8.5's have a 40mm offset. This is pretty close to ideal in the front with a meaty tire or r-compound (for strut tube clearance purposes) but it's not so ideal in the rear. In the front at that offset a 245/40/17 would fit cleanly with enough camber dialed in. You could even mount a 255/40/17 (a hair oversized on this heavy car, but it's commonly done by E36 and E46 guys on a budget).

The rear is a whole different animal. The 1 series easily has the worst rear fitment of any BMW I can think of. The rear has room for a lot of rubber, but it needs a high offset to fit, which makes it close to impossible to run a square setup without sacrificing tire width.

If you run a 245/40/17 rear tire on a 17x8.5" et40 wheel then you're running a wheel that is 12mm more aggressive then your stock wheels. The stock wheels are conservative, but when you put a meaty tire right out there at the fender lip with an offset like that, then you'll get rubbing. So a rear fender roll will be required. It's one thing to do this with a "show" or "street" oriented tire combo, but for track/autocross we are talking about wide tires that will be flexing to their limit under load and you'll neeed all the room you can get. The problem is you didn't want to roll your fenders you wanted a bolt on setup. If you installed 235's then you wouldn't have rubbing front or rear, but now you're not even coming close to the grip the car really needs. (I run 235/40's on a 2400lbs E30 M3 and I need more grip). Yes you could get around with that much rubber, but it's not even close to optimal.

With an aggressive fender roll the Nitto Sponsored bmwcca club racer is running our 17x8.5's with 255/40/17 NT-01's, so 255's can be run front and rear but it's not even close to being a direct bolt on fitment.

That being said if you want a simple bolt on setup. I would go the 245/40 on 17x8.5" route as all it requires is a rear fender roll. That fender roll allows for more rubber in the rear, which makes it one of the best bang for your buck mods.

As an example of the benefit of rolling: An E36 M3 can mount 245/40/17 on 8.5" square with no rubbing (but its really close in the back). Rolling is needed for 245's or anything wider on a 9" wheel. The guy who doesn't roll his car at all is forced to run the 245/8.5" combo, while the guy willing to roll can mount 255's front and rear on a wider rim. At the track you need that extra rubber (even more so on a heavy car). $100~ for a roll takes that restriction away.

18's are more expensive but an 18x8.5" et45 is available that can be run with 245/35/18's front and rear. a 2-3mm front spacer is needed for strut tube clearance when something like a Hoosier R6 is run in that size, but it's still rotatable which is important. The upside of the 18" squared setup is better sidewall support on a heavy car. The down side is limited availability of 245/35/18's and their price tag vs. the wide range of cheap 17's available.

17x9" square is not at all ideal on the 1 series because the rear fitment issue will be exaggerated. It works up front, but is a major compromise in the rear.
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      04-10-2011, 12:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpro21 View Post
Yes, camber plates are a must for what you're trying to do. The 17x8.5's have a 40mm offset. This is pretty close to ideal in the front with a meaty tire or r-compound (for strut tube clearance purposes) but it's not so ideal in the rear. In the front at that offset a 245/40/17 would fit cleanly with enough camber dialed in. You could even mount a 255/40/17 (a hair oversized on this heavy car, but it's commonly done by E36 and E46 guys on a budget).

The rear is a whole different animal. The 1 series easily has the worst rear fitment of any BMW I can think of. The rear has room for a lot of rubber, but it needs a high offset to fit, which makes it close to impossible to run a square setup without sacrificing tire width.

If you run a 245/40/17 rear tire on a 17x8.5" et40 wheel then you're running a wheel that is 12mm more aggressive then your stock wheels. The stock wheels are conservative, but when you put a meaty tire right out there at the fender lip with an offset like that, then you'll get rubbing. So a rear fender roll will be required. It's one thing to do this with a "show" or "street" oriented tire combo, but for track/autocross we are talking about wide tires that will be flexing to their limit under load and you'll neeed all the room you can get. The problem is you didn't want to roll your fenders you wanted a bolt on setup. If you installed 235's then you wouldn't have rubbing front or rear, but now you're not even coming close to the grip the car really needs. (I run 235/40's on a 2400lbs E30 M3 and I need more grip). Yes you could get around with that much rubber, but it's not even close to optimal.

With an aggressive fender roll the Nitto Sponsored bmwcca club racer is running our 17x8.5's with 255/40/17 NT-01's, so 255's can be run front and rear but it's not even close to being a direct bolt on fitment.

That being said if you want a simple bolt on setup. I would go the 245/40 on 17x8.5" route as all it requires is a rear fender roll. That fender roll allows for more rubber in the rear, which makes it one of the best bang for your buck mods.

As an example of the benefit of rolling: An E36 M3 can mount 245/40/17 on 8.5" square with no rubbing (but its really close in the back). Rolling is needed for 245's or anything wider on a 9" wheel. The guy who doesn't roll his car at all is forced to run the 245/8.5" combo, while the guy willing to roll can mount 255's front and rear on a wider rim. At the track you need that extra rubber (even more so on a heavy car). $100~ for a roll takes that restriction away.

18's are more expensive but an 18x8.5" et45 is available that can be run with 245/35/18's front and rear. a 2-3mm front spacer is needed for strut tube clearance when something like a Hoosier R6 is run in that size, but it's still rotatable which is important. The upside of the 18" squared setup is better sidewall support on a heavy car. The down side is limited availability of 245/35/18's and their price tag vs. the wide range of cheap 17's available.

17x9" square is not at all ideal on the 1 series because the rear fitment issue will be exaggerated. It works up front, but is a major compromise in the rear.
Thank you for the great, detailed information. It almost sounds like the square 18x8.5 setup is the way to go... So, would the 18" setup require a fender roll? Also would the 245/35/18's be pretty close to the same performance of the 255/40/17's? I'm going to do some research on tires, and then hopefully make a decision in the next week. Are you guys still selling them in matte black anymore, or just the satin?
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      05-30-2012, 09:55 PM   #12
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Apex Arc 8(17x8.5)

I found a really good deal on some used ones, and thinking about buying them.

I saw the whole argument about running 245 and 255 for better traction above ^^.

Truth is my 128i has 205 225 right now. It has stock sport suspension, and it is just my daily driver. With that in mind, if I get just 235's all around setup, then shouldn't i get better handling anyways since they are 235 vs my current stock setup?

Like I said, this car is daily driven, and these are my first set of rims I am ever buying. I don't want to make a big mistake or anything. Do you think running 235 all around would affect anything negatively? If it decreases performance in anyway or would look weird on my car then I won't get them xD.

Thanks so much )))
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      09-26-2012, 10:03 PM   #13
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Is 255/40/17 et40 square would work with Star Specs on lowered vehicle ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy@ApexRaceParts View Post
Yes, camber plates are a must for what you're trying to do. The 17x8.5's have a 40mm offset. This is pretty close to ideal in the front with a meaty tire or r-compound (for strut tube clearance purposes) but it's not so ideal in the rear. In the front at that offset a 245/40/17 would fit cleanly with enough camber dialed in. You could even mount a 255/40/17 (a hair oversized on this heavy car, but it's commonly done by E36 and E46 guys on a budget).

The rear is a whole different animal. The 1 series easily has the worst rear fitment of any BMW I can think of. The rear has room for a lot of rubber, but it needs a high offset to fit, which makes it close to impossible to run a square setup without sacrificing tire width.

If you run a 245/40/17 rear tire on a 17x8.5" et40 wheel then you're running a wheel that is 12mm more aggressive then your stock wheels. The stock wheels are conservative, but when you put a meaty tire right out there at the fender lip with an offset like that, then you'll get rubbing. So a rear fender roll will be required. It's one thing to do this with a "show" or "street" oriented tire combo, but for track/autocross we are talking about wide tires that will be flexing to their limit under load and you'll neeed all the room you can get. The problem is you didn't want to roll your fenders you wanted a bolt on setup. If you installed 235's then you wouldn't have rubbing front or rear, but now you're not even coming close to the grip the car really needs. (I run 235/40's on a 2400lbs E30 M3 and I need more grip). Yes you could get around with that much rubber, but it's not even close to optimal.

With an aggressive fender roll the Nitto Sponsored bmwcca club racer is running our 17x8.5's with 255/40/17 NT-01's, so 255's can be run front and rear but it's not even close to being a direct bolt on fitment.

That being said if you want a simple bolt on setup. I would go the 245/40 on 17x8.5" route as all it requires is a rear fender roll. That fender roll allows for more rubber in the rear, which makes it one of the best bang for your buck mods.

As an example of the benefit of rolling: An E36 M3 can mount 245/40/17 on 8.5" square with no rubbing (but its really close in the back). Rolling is needed for 245's or anything wider on a 9" wheel. The guy who doesn't roll his car at all is forced to run the 245/8.5" combo, while the guy willing to roll can mount 255's front and rear on a wider rim. At the track you need that extra rubber (even more so on a heavy car). $100~ for a roll takes that restriction away.

18's are more expensive but an 18x8.5" et45 is available that can be run with 245/35/18's front and rear. a 2-3mm front spacer is needed for strut tube clearance when something like a Hoosier R6 is run in that size, but it's still rotatable which is important. The upside of the 18" squared setup is better sidewall support on a heavy car. The down side is limited availability of 245/35/18's and their price tag vs. the wide range of cheap 17's available.

17x9" square is not at all ideal on the 1 series because the rear fitment issue will be exaggerated. It works up front, but is a major compromise in the rear.
I got KW 3 ,Vorshlag Camber plates and E92 lower control arms and i am willing to roll
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      05-08-2014, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy@ApexRaceParts View Post
Yes, camber plates are a must for what you're trying to do. The 17x8.5's have a 40mm offset. This is pretty close to ideal in the front with a meaty tire or r-compound (for strut tube clearance purposes) but it's not so ideal in the rear. In the front at that offset a 245/40/17 would fit cleanly with enough camber dialed in. You could even mount a 255/40/17 (a hair oversized on this heavy car, but it's commonly done by E36 and E46 guys on a budget)...

If you run a 245/40/17 rear tire on a 17x8.5" et40 wheel then you're running a wheel that is 12mm more aggressive then your stock wheels. The stock wheels are conservative, but when you put a meaty tire right out there at the fender lip with an offset like that, then you'll get rubbing. So a rear fender roll will be required. It's one thing to do this with a "show" or "street" oriented tire combo, but for track/autocross we are talking about wide tires that will be flexing to their limit under load and you'll neeed all the room you can get. The problem is you didn't want to roll your fenders you wanted a bolt on setup. If you installed 235's then you wouldn't have rubbing front or rear, but now you're not even coming close to the grip the car really needs. (I run 235/40's on a 2400lbs E30 M3 and I need more grip). Yes you could get around with that much rubber, but it's not even close to optimal...

That being said if you want a simple bolt on setup. I would go the 245/40 on 17x8.5" route as all it requires is a rear fender roll. That fender roll allows for more rubber in the rear, which makes it one of the best bang for your buck mods....

18's are more expensive but an 18x8.5" et45 is available that can be run with 245/35/18's front and rear. a 2-3mm front spacer is needed for strut tube clearance when something like a Hoosier R6 is run in that size, but it's still rotatable which is important. The upside of the 18" squared setup is better sidewall support on a heavy car. The down side is limited availability of 245/35/18's and their price tag vs. the wide range of cheap 17's available.
How come 17x8.5 et40 needs a roll but 18x8.5 et45 can get away with a 2-3mm spacer? With the spacer you're effectively comparing 17x8.5 et40 vs 18x8.5 et42, does it really come down to 2-3mm for roll or no roll in the rears?

You made a good point about lack of tire choices in 245/35-18 so I'd ideally like to run 245/40-17 square on a 17x8.5 et40.
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