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      04-21-2011, 10:42 PM   #45
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how can the 1m outperform all caymans except for the cayman r?

if cs = m3 ('ring times)
and m3 > 1m

then the cs > 1m

and if the cr > cs
then the cr > 1m automatically.
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      04-21-2011, 10:46 PM   #46
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This is why I have a Cayman S and a 135i. Personally I think the Cayman S feels much better in the twisties. It just feels better.

Of course I love my 135 too. It's low end power feels great. It all depends on my mood and where I'm going.
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      04-21-2011, 10:57 PM   #47
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I have Boxster and a 135. They are both amazing cars but I agree with johnsnit that the Cayman / Boxster feel much better in the twisties. You are much lower to the ground in Cayman / Boxster and the steering and handling of the Porsche feel more connected to the road. The 135 is amazing with the explosion of power and more comfortable ride and better cabin.
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      04-21-2011, 11:01 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkvaderr View Post
Driving the M3 was fun, but the Cayman S was on an entirely different level
Ok, fair enough.
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      04-21-2011, 11:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post
how can the 1m outperform all caymans except for the cayman r?

if cs = m3 ('ring times)
and m3 > 1m

then the cs > 1m

and if the cr > cs
then the cr > 1m automatically.
Its hard to base cars just on lap times alone. I mean if thats all you're going to do with it then go for the faster one but if not then its truly up to the driver to discern. I mean a Cayman S is as fast as a Carerra GT in the slalom. Thats crazy fast. However, put it on a straight against an M3 and it will eventually lose out.

IMO, its all about the feel of a car. I remember a couple of years ago car and driver or a similar magazine said a M coupe was a better car at 10/10's driving but the Caymen S was the better all around car and daily driver for all situations. This is probably why the 1M is winning and the Caymen R isn't. Its just entirely impratical for everyday driving. I mean you have a tether for a door handle... Do you want to deal with things like that everyday? No and BMW M cars are more for everyday driving with occasional track use rather than a dedicated "drive it like I stole it" track/weekend car. M reserves those cars for the CSL type variants.
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      04-21-2011, 11:51 PM   #50
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lulz..

I friggin love how even when other cars trump Bimmers on paper, Journalist still pick the BMW



winning
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      04-21-2011, 11:51 PM   #51
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If I was you I would not be too disappointed and that is coming from one of the biggest fans of GT-R. Its a car that I would love to own. But even I can't deny the fact that the car does not have the fit or finish of much cheaper 50K plus M3. The M3 is much more luxurious interior wise, refined, better fit and finish, not to mention comes with stronger and better warranty and maintenance.

The GT-R is out right better performance machine and technological AWD marvel. I think if speed is your only motive then you should have gotten a GT-R and not an M3.




Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinel999 View Post
if i had the $$$ i would have bought the gtr in a heartbeat. i just can't afford it. i drove the gtr on the track in las vegas and then i was disappointed to drive my m3 back home.
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      04-21-2011, 11:52 PM   #52
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Just checked the ring times for the cayman S and its 8:16, a little slower than the 8:12 for 1M, so I'm not surprised that the cayman R is only marginally better. I think it's an unfair comparison based on the number of seats and curb weight, stacked in the favor of the cayman, and still the cayman is only marginally faster. I think the appropriate comparison will be with a 1M vs 997 coupe - both four seaters and much closer in weight, even though the price difference is huge. And perhaps a procede 1M vs a 997 C2S!

To those comparing the 135 vs boxster/cayman, the 135 is a different car. I have test driven it and it does sit too high and rolls way too much (almost as much my 335xi which doesn't even have a sport suspension). I drove an E46 M3 convertible the same day I drove a 135 and the M3 was miles better in terms of handling and grip. And it was a heavy convertible! The 1M is supposed to be better then the E46M3 so it will be miles ahead of a 135 (one with stock suspension anyway) so I wouldn't prejudge an 1M based on how a stock 135 drives.
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      04-22-2011, 12:34 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_philly View Post
Just checked the ring times for the cayman S and its 8:16, a little slower than the 8:12 for 1M, so I'm not surprised that the cayman R is only marginally better. I think it's an unfair comparison based on the number of seats and curb weight, stacked in the favor of the cayman, and still the cayman is only marginally faster. I think the appropriate comparison will be with a 1M vs 997 coupe - both four seaters and much closer in weight, even though the price difference is huge. And perhaps a procede 1M vs a 997 C2S!
Ring time is yet another unreliable statistics to use. Who was the driver, what was the weather, what tires and it goes on and on.


http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/pors...elift_pdk.html

This site says the time is 8:06.00. Who is right, who is wrong, who knows.
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      04-22-2011, 12:35 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkvaderr View Post
Better acceleration numbers and marginally better lap times does not equate to better to drive. Driving is an experience, not a measurable thing.
As a driver's car is where it excels, is what I'm assuming this review is trying to say.
But in our present world of dual clutch automatics and obsessions with 0-60 times; I don't expect many people to understand that.

There would be no need to test drive cars or read/watch car reviews if only numbers mattered; cause then we'd just have one test track, one driver and simply list out from fastest to slowest: 0-60, 0-120, lap times, etc. And you'd just buy the highest ranking car in your price range. But we don't do that do we?

Having said that; my father has a Cayman S that I've driven, and I've also driven both the 135i and M3; and I find it hard to believe that the 1M would be better to drive than a Cayman R. I guess I'll have to wait and find out for myself!
This must be the sensible and right approach, thank you! I have myself never understood the obsession with purely objective data in a context that is centred on the whole concept of 'feel', which you can't assess from numbers.
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      04-22-2011, 02:08 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egt135i View Post

but if one could afford either of the two, id like to see who would buy the M1 over the R.
I can afford both, Im buying a 1M. If for whatever reason that doesnt work out I will shop for a GT3 RS or something above that. I have ZERO interest in the Cayman... S, R , or otherwise.

If you really want to know why I can send you a PM
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      04-22-2011, 02:46 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Hiiimmm...

I don't trust this review. Especially when they posted the performance numbers. Also, it is really pointless to compare LWT version of a car, with a standard coupe. More proper comparison -still a bit off- should have been Cayman S.



You right...must be compared with same class car....but to know that is close fast as 1 porsche cayman R made me happy....Bmw M team made a real god job....
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      04-22-2011, 02:48 AM   #57
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It's also a taste thingy. If i am honest, i would rather buy a bmw 1m instead of a Porsche Cayman S/R. The Cayman is pretty ugly.

And the GT-R is fast, yes. But i don't like it either.

Just my 2 cents.
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      04-22-2011, 03:20 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I'd still pick the R over 1m. I want a impractical and more focused car for the weekend. BMW has refined it's cars too far that it's missing the mechanical, vibration and chatter from the engine and tranny.

I would love to extend the value argument. Is 1m 2.5x or 3x performance over the civic si? Would anyone here agree if a magazine concludes civic si beats 1m on value therefore winner of the comparison? Absurd right? So is this
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      04-22-2011, 03:59 AM   #59
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If you don't need the back seats, don't need to drive it every day and can afford it then buy the Cayman R, otherwise buy the 1M
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      04-22-2011, 04:08 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mer View Post
If you don't need the back seats, don't need to drive it every day and can afford it then buy the Cayman R, otherwise buy the 1M
Shure are 2 different world....you can compare tt rs with cayman r, but not 1M with other 2....is shure another world....the positive thing is that 1M is so near to another 2 car but is still a car...not a 2 sits coupè...shure when I can have 2 cars one porsche just for the week end will be nice....but then one carrera not a cayman...
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      04-22-2011, 07:51 AM   #61
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if BMW built a CSL version, it would be pretty damn fast and unbeatable!
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      04-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDivPower View Post
if BMW built a CSL version, it would be pretty damn fast and unbeatable!
But if I can't lean out of the car and touch the ground, it still doesn't count
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      04-22-2011, 08:37 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinel999 View Post
it costs more and it delivers more. how can a car that lost in every performance comparison be the better car?

maybe the better value but not the better car. whatever those germans wrote in that article is pure biased bullshit. i cant believe they had the balls to call the 1m the winner even tho it lost in every single performance comparison.
Considering the lap times and 0-62 were only fractions of a second different, the 1M pretty much equaled the R in performance despite a much lower cost. Different driver, tires, etc and results could very well be reversed. While car enthusiasts love to measurbate the pleasure comes from the actual act of driving.
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      04-22-2011, 08:58 AM   #64
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Wow, I'm surprised. 1M is killing it in the reviews.
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      04-22-2011, 08:59 AM   #65
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If lap time is so important to some ppl, why aren't they driving Ariel Atoms? I heard those are really good commuter cars and pleasant to drive in traffic.

NOT :-)
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      04-22-2011, 09:55 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egt135i View Post
but if one could afford either of the two, id like to see who would buy the M1 over the R.
MANY people !
Simple : 1M has got 4 seats, a radio, a real trunk, low-end torque which is great for daily driving, smaller engine (less tax and better MPG).
It's obviously not a sleeper, but less in-your-face than a Cayman.

Why do you all keep thinking that people buy the fastest 0-60 MPH car that their budget can buy ?

Cayman R is track car. 1M is a daily driver that can be used on the track as well, and it will perform pretty well for a pretty good price.

Now stop the hating.
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