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      04-28-2011, 02:15 AM   #23
skyphab
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It highly depends on the personality what you want to do.
With my new car waiting outside I just couldn't enjoy a museum trip. I would rush in and rush out, just to be able to get into my car again. If you're more patient and can un-excite yourself you can take it more relaxed and do some other things.
If you can't or won't every other activity than driving is a torture.

He has to decide himself what he can take and as he said they're two guys. So, iif one is tired they can change seats. If there is no possibility to continue the drive, you can always take a longer break. Get off the streets and out of the car. It's easy. But you have to do it, that's right.
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      04-28-2011, 07:56 AM   #24
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I would echo the recommendations to not try drive the ring after a commute from Munich. You want to be as fresh as possible. Remember, on the autobahns, if you're going at speed, you'll get fatigued from concentrating….though you won't be sitting on 100mph all day, there lots of speed changes and the odd 'stau' to slow you down...

You can stay right near the ring in Adenau - there are a few decent hotels that cater to 'ring visitors. We stayed here, and it was quite good: http://www.blaueecke.de/

If you can make time to go through Stuttgart, you really shouldn't miss the Merc and Porsche museums. The Porsche museum is amazing! (I'd say better than BMW and Merc…though Merc has some awesome history and the building itself is quite impressive)

You'll also want some spare time at the Ring to visit Ring Werk and tour the F1 track etc...

Here's some other people's experiences at the ring:
http://www.ausringers.com/your-story
http://www.ausringers.com/links

and a useful ring planning site:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/

Make sure you look up when the tourist days are running at the 'ring. It would be a shame to arrive and find out the ring is shut while you're there….

http://nurburgring.org.uk/calendar.php
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angebo...dschleife.html

Finally, you can't drink beer in Munich without at least trying the infamous hofbrauhaus...

edit: also - might be worth familiarising yourself with German road-rules....especially for the autobahns...could save you some heartache...
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      04-28-2011, 09:45 AM   #25
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Whoa that's a lot to take in!

At this point I am torn.

I want to do all of the exciting things that have been proposed, but I am not superman and I do not want to get myself in trouble.

Lets see - I have driven many many thousands of KM in Europe in my life. But I have only spent a few hundred on the Autobahn, it was this last February in a relatively slow car. Most of my driving has been in Spain and I definitely realized the difference between driving in Spain and on the Autobahn. However, I was thrilled every minute that I was on the road.

There are few things that I enjoy in life as much as I enjoy driving. That is probably preaching to the choir on this forum though...

I guess I'm a little disappointed about the ring being so busy, but then again when will I ever get to drive my car on the ring once it is in the USA? There the concern is safety. If I'm on the ring with a good amount of traffic, almost like a parade lap, I'm OK with that, I just want to experience the ring. If I'm on there and there's not so much traffic and a fiat punto in front of me and an m3 trying to pass me I might get a little nervous, but I don't think I'll take any chances either... Really it is all about the experience at this point, even if it is not 100% ideal conditions. I'll do some more research over the coming weeks. Also Tit that hotel you posted looks good... I might go ahead and book it! Haha also in February my friend Donovan and I drove to the ring and it was closed due to ice. It is definitely disappointing to go there and not get to drive it! Had to settle for a tour of the GP facilities (which is actually quite enjoyable) and a terrible subway sandwich.

I'll go over all of these links today and think hard about the experience. The last thing I want to do is get in trouble over there and have problems, but I also don't want to go to welt, say hello to the car, and then walk away and not see it until August. I've been waiting too long to get my foot on that pedal!
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      04-30-2011, 03:19 AM   #26
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Really, all those things are gravy. It would just be hugely disappointing if you arrived and the ring was closed...so make sure you aim for it when the tourist laps are running. I'd also strongly recommend you drive it fresh, because after less than a lap you'll start to catch yourself not concentrating 110% - which the ring demands. Give yourself lots of time and breathing room so you don't feel pressured...

Don't stress too much about the traffic on the ring. The key is to bring it home safely. No need to look at the speedo - just drive within your limits and obey the rules of the ring (ie. giving way etc).

The ring bites. When we were there we a GT3 went into a wall about 60seconds before us...they got it all cleaned up in under 20 min! Those efficient Germans!
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      04-30-2011, 05:57 AM   #27
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^^My only other advice when visiting the 'Ring would be NOT to try to measure your lap times or feel under pressure to keep up with "other" cars. Because some of the locals drive just plain nuts there like they are out to set a new track record. Everytime I have gone... when the track opens up to tourists... I usually wait 45 minutes to an hour... and let all the "track squirrels" go out and proven their manhood. Inevitably a few of them will wreck and then everyone tends to calm down some.

Also... becareful at kilometer marker 14: Hohe Acht (I think thats the name). As you approach that turn you are first going down a hill then up a hill(the apex is blind and then it shoots down hill after the apex)... the way the tree (forrest)line is cut the road looks to go to the RIGHT... but as you are climbing up that hill.... it is blind and then close to the top you realize the road goes LEFT not right and then it is downhill thru a corkscrew off (neg) camber surface. It caught a friend of mine by surprise and he almost wrecked our rental car. All along I was screaming from the back seat RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!!!! But he could have sworn the road went left. Everyone does. lol

I would not be affriad to come to the Ring. Just respect it. Because the Green Hell has some sharp teeth!
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      04-30-2011, 08:47 AM   #28
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If you're really worried, some of the local companies do demo laps for you to show the 'gotchas'...to point out the turn-in and apex points, the off camber corners and where the car is most likely to get out of shape...

Try these guys, they are super helpful, and professional (just email / call to ask if they can take you out on a demo/safety lap, as opposed to hiring a car):
http://rentracecar.de/index-gb.htm
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      04-30-2011, 11:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
^^My only other advice when visiting the 'Ring would be NOT to try to measure your lap times or feel under pressure to keep up with "other" cars. Because some of the locals drive just plain nuts there like they are out to set a new track record. Everytime I have gone... when the track opens up to tourists... I usually wait 45 minutes to an hour... and let all the "track squirrels" go out and proven their manhood. Inevitably a few of them will wreck and then everyone tends to calm down some.

Also... becareful at kilometer marker 14: Hohe Acht (I think thats the name). As you approach that turn you are first going down a hill then up a hill(the apex is blind and then it shoots down hill after the apex)... the way the tree (forrest)line is cut the road looks to go to the RIGHT... but as you are climbing up that hill.... it is blind and then close to the top you realize the road goes LEFT not right and then it is downhill thru a corkscrew off (neg) camber surface. It caught a friend of mine by surprise and he almost wrecked our rental car. All along I was screaming from the back seat RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!!!! But he could have sworn the road went left. Everyone does. lol

I would not be affriad to come to the Ring. Just respect it. Because the Green Hell has some sharp teeth!
Is it left or is it right? Your two sentences seem to contradict
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      04-30-2011, 04:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papethova View Post
Is it left or is it right? Your two sentences seem to contradict

Sorry about that. The track goes RIGHT but as you approach the turn, it really looks like it goes to the right. But infact the track turns LEFT. As you approach the turn or kink... you are driving up a blind turn. Then just before the apex the road levels out and then goes down hill as the camber drops away after the apex. It is a quick hard LEFT and then a right.

I am not really sure where this is on the Ring. It has been a few years since my last drive on the Ring. I know before I said it was at Hohe Acht, but now I am not so sure. I think it might be earlier like in the two bellow vidoes. Right around(past) kilometer marker 7(km).


here is a decent clear in car video of the 'Ring. The section I am talking about is at 3:04 secs... the track goes LEFt and then sharp right just as the camber falls away. This video was taken in the fall... but in teh summer the track really looks like it goes right - but it does not. lol




...or this one at 2:50 to 3:03




Well... at least these videos will give you a feel for what its like to drive on the Ring with all sorts of cars and drivers. Note the warning triangles out on the track... like in the first video... the Opel driver noticeable slows down because of oil when he passes those warning triangles. Smart guy.

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      04-30-2011, 05:11 PM   #31
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Just watched the video of the GTI, pretty decent driving.

And I now remembered the one from Hans Joachim Stuck with the M3 GTR on a tourist lap. Well, it gets a different taste. Hell, is that fast

Be sure to skip to 1:30, where the Nordschleife begins:
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      05-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #32
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I found a passage in the Nordschleife rules which says that cars with temporary number plates are not allowed on the ring.

Just wondering: Aren't people from the US with ED driving around with number plates like these?



That are number plates for exports (so called "red numbers") and it looks to me, that cars with these aren't allowed? I don't know for sure and don't want to make anybody nervous, but I would clearify that point in advance.
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      05-04-2011, 03:07 PM   #33
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Well we saw at least on ED car get on the ring, would a Canadian ED car have a different plate?
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      05-04-2011, 03:13 PM   #34
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I found a passage in the Nordschleife rules which says that cars with temporary number plates are not allowed on the ring.

Just wondering: Aren't people from the US with ED driving around with number plates like these?



That are number plates for exports (so called "red numbers") and it looks to me, that cars with these aren't allowed? I don't know for sure and don't want to make anybody nervous, but I would clearify that point in advance.

I think when the Ring says "red numbers" they mean the dealer tags over here. Not the export tags like you have posted above.

Here is what a dealer tag looks like:
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      05-04-2011, 03:27 PM   #35
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^^^ I'll look into this, but yeah that would be pretty lame not to get to drive it, even if it is cautiously, around the ring.

PS The videos are awesome! I've gotten quite comfortable with the layout of the ring from plaing Gran Turismo 5. I know it's not like real life, but it definitely helps you figure out the layout of the tracks...

Can't wait!!!
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      05-04-2011, 03:29 PM   #36
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Papethova: You can just get this type of temporary plates in Germany, since the car will be moved out and just has temporary homologation. As I understand the regularities of the ring, all types of temporary plates are excluded.

Dackelone: They explicit mention the export plates as forbidden.
"Fahrzeuge mit Überführungs-Kennzeichen (rote Nummern), Kurzzeitkennzeichen (03er- und 04er-Nummern), Oldtimer-Wechselkennzeichen (07er-Nummern) sind nicht zugelassen."

Just found the english version of the ring-rules:
"6) Vehicles with delivery number plates (red numbers), short numbe rplates (03 and 04 numbers) and vintage car exchange number plates (07 numbers) shall not be allowed."

http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin...uristen_GB.pdf

I don't know. Perhaps the guys from Canada didn't get their plates checked or there was another reason they got on the track. But looks to me that it could happen that you aren't to go on the ring?

I would definitely check that. Perhaps they say it's ok, I don't know.

Edit: Or perhaps the Export-plates are not forbidden. But there are different kinds of plates, it's a little bit complicated.
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      05-04-2011, 03:37 PM   #37
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Ahh, I think I got it!

Red number plates are the ones from dealers, you won't get them as a private person anyway. "Kurzzeitkennzeichen" are temporary plates with the yellow stripe on it. Both kind of this plates are for delivery drives only and limited in their usage. Meaning an explicit test drive or driving to the registrations office. Export plates (red stripe) are not restricted in their usage and therefore should be admitted.

Good to know, sorry for the confusion

snowfro: I'm just wondering: I guess ED includes an additional insurance package with comprehensive cover?
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      05-04-2011, 04:12 PM   #38
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skyphab... YES, yes it does, and I pray I don't need it!
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      05-05-2011, 02:01 AM   #39
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Alright and no, you won't need it

You got your route already?
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      05-05-2011, 02:13 AM   #40
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snowfro: I called their Info Hotline this morning and they told me, that you are only allowed to drive on the ring with regular admissions.
In the past, you were allowed to drive with export admissions.
Sorry for the bad news.
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      05-05-2011, 05:22 AM   #41
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Just so everyne know... this is what the "Kurzzeitkennzeichen" tags look like. Used to travel within Germany for a short time. The tags also included insurance.
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      05-05-2011, 05:28 AM   #42
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Actually... here is chart with all the different kennzeichen (tags) we have in Germany.
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      05-05-2011, 06:45 AM   #43
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snowfro: I called their Info Hotline this morning and they told me, that you are only allowed to drive on the ring with regular admissions.
In the past, you were allowed to drive with export admissions.
Sorry for the bad news.
Oh, did they change something?
Did you explicitely ask about the "Ausfuhrkennzeichen"?
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      05-05-2011, 07:48 AM   #44
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I went up to the kiosk, bought 4 laps (was never asked what I was driving) then proceeded to drive the car up to the gates, swipped my card and we were off. I don't think you will have an issue. Here is my plate
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