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      05-02-2011, 06:42 AM   #1
Daniel135i
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Question Colder Thermostat

One of the asiest mods I have done on any of my cats is dropping in a colder thermostat to keep the temps down quite a bit. I run around a 180 degree in my others and they work like a charm to kep the temps down even durring, and after hard racing.

Anything out there for the N54/N55?
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      05-02-2011, 07:44 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel135i View Post
One of the asiest mods I have done on any of my cats is dropping in a colder thermostat to keep the temps down quite a bit. I run around a 180 degree in my others and they work like a charm to kep the temps down even durring, and after hard racing.

Anything out there for the N54/N55?
If the radiator has the capability to cool more than this would certainly be a good thing. If the radiator doesn't have the capability to cool more than replacing the thermostat for one that opens up sooner wouldn't really do anything. I haven't heard of anyone replacing their thermostat yet on these forums. I would like to know about this one as well.
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      05-02-2011, 01:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
If the radiator has the capability to cool more than this would certainly be a good thing. If the radiator doesn't have the capability to cool more than replacing the thermostat for one that opens up sooner wouldn't really do anything. I haven't heard of anyone replacing their thermostat yet on these forums. I would like to know about this one as well.
^^ I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one. Seems like the guys that race theirs end up going with a new radiator because the stock one isn't up to snuff.

The other thing is that some cars (I can't vouch for this one, still learning about it) are so picky that if you drop in a lower temp 'stat, they never get out of open loop because they are waiting for a coolant temperature that can't be reached anymore.

There is also the theory behind the idea that a hotter engine is more efficient because of the extra evaporation of the fuel right before combustion. (Don't read this as hotter air is better though, because it is less dense)
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      05-02-2011, 02:40 PM   #4
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I do not believe our cars even HAVE a coolant thermostat. BMW uses an electric water pump that is controled by software. Isn't this also one of the reasons why BMW chose not to put a coolant gauge in our cars! We do have an oil thremstat - but no coolant thermostat.

So... I don't think this mod would apply to our cars.
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      05-02-2011, 02:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I do not believe our cars even HAVE a coolant thermostat. BMW uses an electric water pump that is controled by software. Isn't this also one of the reasons why BMW chose not to put a coolant gauge in our cars! We do have an oil thremstat - but no coolant thermostat.

So... I don't think this mod would apply to our cars.
Then if the same concept were applied to the hardware our cars have it would involve a software modification to hijack the electric water pump. One would think though if it is controlled by software that BMW would be intelligent enough to have the output of the pump dependent upon a coolant temperature reading so that the temperature is always optimal.
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      05-02-2011, 02:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
Then if the same concept were applied to the hardware our cars have it would involve a software modification to hijack the electric water pump. One would think though if it is controlled by software that BMW would be intelligent enough to have the output of the pump dependent upon a coolant temperature reading so that the temperature is always optimal.

SURE! I never said there was no coolant sensor. I am sure BMW uses one or more coolant sensors - so that the engine ECU can regulate coolant temps. I am also sure in each SW update BMW has changed these specs for the coolant temp regulation.

What I am saying is there is NO mechanical old school thermostat that opens and closes via temper'd/metal spring - like say in an e36 or e46 car.
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      05-02-2011, 02:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
SURE! I never said there was no coolant sensor. I am sure BMW uses one or more coolant sensors - so that the engine ECU can regulate coolant temps. I am also sure in each SW update BMW has changed these specs for the coolant temp regulation.

What I am saying is there is NO mechanical old school thermostat that opens and closes via temper'd/metal spring - like say in an e36 or e46 car.
Yeah, I understand. I am not going against what you said. I was just adding on top of what you said. I haven't heard of any radiator swaps yet so it would be interesting to know how people control the coolant with a new, enlarged radiator.
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      05-02-2011, 03:12 PM   #8
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Thanks for the reply Dackel -- That makes a lot of since to control using the e-water pump, since thermostats tend to seize up after a while.

IgoFast -- What you suggest can (and is) done. Check out Dinan's description here:

Quote:
360 Horsepower; 373 lb-ft of Torque; Top Speed Governor Removed; Factory Matching Warranty (4year/50,000 mi); Full Map Rescaling; Properly Returned Fuel Mixtures; Remapped Water Pump Speeds to Control Engine Temperature; Free Dinan Software Updates for the Life of the Car;
http://www.dinancars.com/shop/D900-3...de.aspx#page=1

I have heard that COBB does not do this in their stage 1 tunes (I wish they did). I am not sure about GIAC or any of the other flash-based tunes out there.

All of this aside...Oh, and I don't recommend this, but....If you want to get the most out of your cooling system, and you live in an area that never freezes, replacing your coolant with pure distilled water will give you the highest cooling system performance. Note though, that there would be nothing to lubricate the water pump, nothing to manage the scale and ph of the water, and nothing to add color (for identifying leaks). If I were to run all-water, I'd still add some water wetter as it eeks out a little more performance, and provides at least minimal lubrication for the pump.

I have another car that I run only about 25% coolant in, just because the engine far exceeds the cooling system's thermal capacity. Now, granted I have increased the HP rating by 50% so....
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      05-02-2011, 03:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I do not believe our cars even HAVE a coolant thermostat. BMW uses an electric water pump that is controled by software. Isn't this also one of the reasons why BMW chose not to put a coolant gauge in our cars! We do have an oil thremstat - but no coolant thermostat.

So... I don't think this mod would apply to our cars.
135 def have coolant thermostat !!

02 Thermostat 1 11537549476 $118.16

and no i dont think you cant get different temp ranges for them as you would from old school mods..
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      05-02-2011, 03:52 PM   #10
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135 def have coolant thermostat !!

02 Thermostat 1 11537549476 $118.16

and no i dont think you cant get different temp ranges for them as you would from old school mods..
The thermostat has to be controlled by the ECU if Dinan's software description states that it alters the pump speeds. If the ECU controls the pump speeds through the mechanical thermostat then the only reason to replace the thermostat would be if it was physically incapable of flowing more. I am sure the thermostat valve opens up 100% at a certain point and likely makes full use of the stock radiator.

Has anyone out there successfully decreased temperatures with a larger radiator?
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      05-02-2011, 04:00 PM   #11
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DriveHard that is interesting about our cars having a thermostat. I would be interested in seeing a real photo though. But thanks.

I wonder IF there is a true BMW service book online that talks about the engine and various systems and specs.

IGoFast1589 I think I have seen one or two high performance radiators. I think Berk race car is running with one of those. But it is $$$$! Like $1,500 I think for the radiator.
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      05-02-2011, 04:00 PM   #12
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So much a pain in the ass.... I miss carburetors and the simple things some times.
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      05-02-2011, 04:12 PM   #13
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I assume everyone has seen this STICKY... it is a very nice document from BMW.

2007 Engine Tech: How the N54 turbo engine works (must read!!!)

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204091
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      05-02-2011, 04:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
DriveHard that is interesting about our cars having a thermostat. I would be interested in seeing a real photo though. But thanks.

I wonder IF there is a true BMW service book online that talks about the engine and various systems and specs.

IGoFast1589 I think I have seen one or two high performance radiators. I think Berk race car is running with one of those. But it is $$$$! Like $1,500 I think for the radiator.

THERMOSTAT BELOW
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...OSTAT/ES25121/
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      05-02-2011, 04:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I assume everyone has seen this STICKY... it is a very nice document from BMW.

2007 Engine Tech: How the N54 turbo engine works (must read!!!)

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204091
Thats a nice sticky !!!!
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      05-02-2011, 07:05 PM   #16
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$1500 radiator....?!?!?!?!?! BMW tax much? Seeing as top brand Koyos for are around $300 for any other car. Its robbery.
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      05-03-2011, 07:36 AM   #17
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That thermostat looks like a replacement stock unit. I doubt any substantial gains in cooling can be had from buying that, but I have no hard evidence of this.

I bet the best cooling solution consists of swapping radiators and using the ECU to optimize the pump speeds, but I also have no hard evidence of this either. If anyone cares to do some R&D I am sure the community would be appreciative. I would do these kind of things myself, but I don't have the time or enough knowledge of the ECU in order to do anything beneficial. Our best shot is hoping for one of the major vendors on here to conduct some R&D or for an individual member to just go through with changing radiators and report back their experiences to us. Even if it's informal info it could still be useful.

Last edited by IGoFast1589; 05-03-2011 at 08:01 AM.
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      05-03-2011, 08:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
That thermostat looks like a replacement stock unit. I doubt any substantial gains in cooling can be had from buying that, but I have no hard evidence of this.

I bet the best cooling solution consists of swapping radiators and using the ECU to optimize the pump speeds, but I also have no hard evidence of this either. If anyone cares to do some R&D I am sure the community would be appreciative. I would do these kind of things myself, but I don't have the time or enough knowledge of the ECU in order to do anything beneficial. Our best shot is hoping for one of the major vendors on here to conduct some R&D or for an individual member to just go through with changing radiators and report back their experiences to us. Even if it's informal info it could still be useful.

No intention in prior post that what i linked was a "better" or different thermostat.. i was just responding to dakels request for a photo of the OEM thermostat in a post above that...


and i agree with you.. I think we are way beyond swapping thermostats looking for gains. I think much better can be done and more effectively with a few lines of code...
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      05-03-2011, 08:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
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No intention in prior post that what i linked was a "better" or different thermostat.. i was just responding to dakels request for a photo of the OEM thermostat in a post above that...


and i agree with you.. I think we are way beyond swapping thermostats looking for gains. I think much better can be done and more effectively with a few lines of code...
I know, I didn't think you intended that. I think people misjudge my comments on these forums. Maybe I need to use more smilies.
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