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      06-10-2011, 06:50 AM   #89
Dan Parker
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Thanks for your opinions Bubbles. Come to think of it an M6 left Road Atlanta due to overheating and an E36 M3 overheated and believed he destroyed his engine. I do not want to get involved in the pissing match but I do have a couple questions.

Did you guys drive with MDM on or off? When I drove Road Atlanta last Monday I shut everything off for most of the day but several times when I had it on I felt a loss of power, glanced down and didn't see the light flashing and after another glance up then down it was flashing briefly. I stayed in the throttle and after what seemed like an eternity it would give back the reins. I would have mistaken it for a loss of power but it was actually the computer stepping in. I wonder if there's a threshold where the light comes on vs. power cut by the electronics. I'm not looking for excuses here, just curious.

Were you driving in other cars drafts? I made sure I didn't in order to keep airflow at a maximum.

Temps at Road Atlanta reached 98 ambient and 132 track temp so I'm surprised the 1M lost power at VIR. What were the temps? Both tracks are similar in the amount of wide open throttle you use but it's obviously not apples to apples.

Actually, that brings up another question, what track configuration did BMW use?

It must have been cool to hop from one car to another.
Thanks.
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      06-10-2011, 06:51 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Dan Parker experienced no heat issues and I think the guy is quite qualified.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=540565&page=2

I, like most, are taking the OPs comments with a grain of salt. Over and over again we have heard M3 drivers trash the 1M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
1M: Underwhelmed, really skittish (short wheel base, hot tires maybe?) It was hot, turbos were hot, got oil temps just above 270F, but something very familiar quickly came up. The torque diminished as the heat increased just like my old 335i. I'm sure the car is a monster in cooler temps, but for me the car won't due in summer months where 90F+ is the norm. The pull was like my old '07 335i Dinan Stage II, but handling was much better with a real LSD. I was lucky enough to drive the M3 then the 1m then back to the M3. The M3 motor is a true gem and its a real shame that the next M3 with be forced induction. There that just one man's opinion.
What in the above statement is bashing the 1M or hating on it??? The skittishness has been mentioned before by journalistic reviews. He compared the engine in the 1M (N54) to the engine in his old Dinan Stage II tuned 335i (N54), which is a fair comparison. The OP never said the 1M overheated...he said that after a few laps it was down on torque. As the OP tracks often and does longer sessions than your typical HPDE it may be a concern for him in the long run. Dan did mention that, "the oil temps reached 270-280 the car would be back to 250 after about 1/2 lap of casual cool down lap driving". So heat soak didn't become an issue for him. I don't understand why people are so defensive about anybody saying something not entirely positive about the 1M's N54 engine. An upgraded IC might make this a moot point anyway......
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      06-10-2011, 07:00 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
What in the above statement is bashing the 1M or hating on it??? The skittishness has been mentioned before by journalistic reviews. He compared the engine in the 1M (N54) to the engine in his old Dinan Stage II tuned 335i (N54), which is a fair comparison. The OP never said the 1M overheated...he said that after a few laps it was down on torque. As the OP tracks often and does longer sessions than your typical HPDE it may be a concern for him in the long run. Dan did mention that, "the oil temps reached 270-280 the car would be back to 250 after about 1/2 lap of casual cool down lap driving". So heat soak didn't become an issue for him. I don't understand why people are so defensive about anybody saying something not entirely positive about the 1M's N54 engine. An upgraded IC might make this a moot point anyway......
"The torque diminished as the heat increased"...he is referring to heat soak!
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      06-10-2011, 07:19 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
"The torque diminished as the heat increased"...he is referring to heat soak!
Okkk... Does that make it him bashing the 1M? Like I said Dan Parker backed it off when temps went into the 270-280 range, so he WOULDN'T heat soak. Heat soak/high heat=diminished torque for the N54 engine is not bashing anything
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      06-10-2011, 07:34 AM   #93
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Actually, I never backed off for a cool down lap. I pushed it hard lap after lap and the temp stayed at 270-280 without any loss of power. When the checkered was waved I took my cool down/in lap. That's when temps would drop down quickly.
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      06-10-2011, 07:39 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
Okkk... Does that make it him bashing the 1M? Like I said Dan Parker backed it off when temps went into the 270-280 range, so he WOULDN'T heat soak. Heat soak/high heat=diminished torque for the N54 engine is not bashing anything
OP said..."1M: Underwhelmed"

Read Dans thread. He says that "I never took a cool down lap until the checkered was waved and although the oil temps reached 270-280 the car would be back to 250 after about 1/2 lap of casual cool down lap driving"

^^^Thanks Dan, don't mean to step on your toes ;-)
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      06-10-2011, 07:42 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastman View Post
As a owner of 400rwhp n54 car I agree with you 100%

Unless you are running water/meth you will hear soak so quickly and lose MASSIVE hp on the track.


Anyone who disagrees is retarted.

Anyone who can't spell retarded is retarted.
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      06-10-2011, 07:57 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
I wonder if there's a threshold where the light comes on vs. power cut by the electronics.
Imho there is no light in MDM. Can't be. The light that tells you MDM is active / DSC is off is the same that flashes when DSC is active and engages or am I wrong?

I can't quite get, why people bash the op. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. So if someone prefers the M3, fine with me. I traded mine in for the 1M and to me it was the right decission.

Just to get a point across... M3 vs 1M. Driving the Nordschleife yesterday, a friend in his GTS was either leading or following me. He stated, that in the steep uphill climbs he wouldn't have been able to easily pass the 1M even if he had wanted to. He had a little left, but not much. Now that's a GTS and not a stock M3! Naturally the GTS was clearly faster due to semis, aero and sheer grunt, but I am sure a stock M3 would not have been able to hold the pace we were running at. I am sure because I drove my M3 on the very same track. And mind you... we weren't trying to go fast yesterday, we were just having fun on our favorite playground.
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      06-10-2011, 08:07 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
Actually, I never backed off for a cool down lap. I pushed it hard lap after lap and the temp stayed at 270-280 without any loss of power. When the checkered was waved I took my cool down/in lap. That's when temps would drop down quickly.
Thanks for the clarification Dan. So I take it you didn't notice any torque loss at all pulling out of the corners towards the end of your sessions? I think that is what people are all hung up about. I can see how the OP would feel underwhelmed about the power of the 1M coming from a tuned N54 335i, but I am willing to bet the OP would say that the 1M "handled" better than his 335i overall. That would be a statement I would agree with.
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      06-10-2011, 08:55 AM   #98
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No power loss any time, and trust me I pushed hard, especially during session 3 and 4 (the hottest). Check my thread. Lap times were very consistent. Exiting corners I could have used a little less power as oversteer was an issue.
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      06-10-2011, 09:22 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
OP said..."1M: Underwhelmed"
So, he is not entitled to his opinion because he is a M3 driver\owner? You say M3 drivers time and time again bash the 1M yet I think there is a flip side to this coin. 1M potential and future owners are too sensitive about anyone talking about their beloved 1M. This can go both ways. Let's not LUMP arrogance, 1M bashing and trashing with the entire M3 community ok?

On a side note, I am a M3 owner and I happen to love the 1M. I would love to get one and if I don't (due to its limited availability), then I will add another M3, (E92), to the stable. Not all of us hate a car that is in the family.. The ///M family
Why should we?
But we are allowed to voice our opinions and experiences, yes?
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      06-10-2011, 09:27 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Dan Parker experienced no heat issues and I think the guy is quite qualified.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=540565&page=2

I, like most, are taking the OPs comments with a grain of salt. Over and over again we have heard M3 drivers trash the 1M.
If you believe that turbo engines can not suffer some bit of heat soak after continuous driving then your knowledge is limited.

It's the general idea that the ecu will begin to pull back some timing as oil temps rise to prevent knock or detonation. These are safety systems in the ECU. By saying that there is no heat soak and drop in timing after temperatures go about 270F is like saying the engine is trying to sign itself a death certificate.
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      06-10-2011, 09:27 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
No power loss any time, and trust me I pushed hard, especially during session 3 and 4 (the hottest). Check my thread. Lap times were very consistent. Exiting corners I could have used a little less power as oversteer was an issue.
I believe you....last time I was at RA myself and K. Brown were there during HPDE and running in the same run group....he got limp mode twice that day...I didn't get it once...maybe differences in the cars?
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      06-10-2011, 09:34 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
So, he is not entitled to his opinion because he is a M3 driver\owner? You say M3 drivers time and time again bash the 1M yet I think there is a flip side to this coin. 1M potential and future owners are too sensitive about anyone talking about their beloved 1M. This can go both ways. Let's not LUMP arrogance, 1M bashing and trashing with the entire M3 community ok?

On a side note, I am a M3 owner and I happen to love the 1M. I would love to get one and if I don't (due to its limited availability), then I will add another M3, (E92), to the stable. Not all of us hate a car that is in the family.. The ///M family
Why should we?
But we are allowed to voice our opinions and experiences, yes?
Sure everyone is entitled to their opinion however their seems to be a number of these M3 owners who have come down hard on the 1M for whatever reason. While every professional review has sung its praises.

I can only imagine what the response would be if a 1M owner posted the something negative about the M3 on the M3 forum.

It not sensitivity about the 1M is frustration that most M3 drivers cant recognize the 1M for what it is. "The best M cars to come out of BMW in years."
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      06-10-2011, 09:36 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterfan1230 View Post
If you believe that turbo engines can not suffer some bit of heat soak after continuous driving then your knowledge is limited.

It's the general idea that the ecu will begin to pull back some timing as oil temps rise to prevent knock or detonation. These are safety systems in the ECU. By saying that there is no heat soak and drop in timing after temperatures go about 270F is like saying the engine is trying to sign itself a death certificate.
Any your ability to read the thread is limited. Merely posting what Dan's observations were at a recent track event.
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      06-10-2011, 09:40 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Any your ability to read the thread is limited. Merely posting what Dan's observations were at a recent track event.
One experience is irrelevant. And yet you fail to provide me with any factual information in response to my claims.... Interesting . Anyways, I am basing it on the entire group of N54 users INCLUDING 335IS's (Which have the same tuning and cooling components as the 1m). They all face heat soak. I rest my case, 1M owners like yourself seem to believe that the car is LIGHTyears ahead of the 135i in every aspect and not subject to environmental factors like heat soak . Enjoy you car.
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      06-10-2011, 09:43 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by chesterfan1230 View Post
One experience is irrelevant. And yet you fail to provide me with any factual information in response to my claims.... Interesting . Anyways, I am basing it on the entire group of N54 users INCLUDING 335IS's (Which have the same tuning and cooling components as the 1m). They all face heat soak. I rest my case, 1M owners like yourself seem to believe that the car is LIGHTyears ahead of the 135i in every aspect and not subject to environmental factors like heat soak . Enjoy you car.
Well we have one negative experience and one positive and they are neither yours or mine. Moving on...
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      06-10-2011, 09:46 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Well we have one negative experience and one positive and they are neither yours or mine. Moving on...
DAMN!

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      06-10-2011, 10:08 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post

It not sensitivity about the 1M is frustration that most M3 drivers cant recognize the 1M for what it is. "The best M cars to come out of BMW in years."
I don't think it's "most" M3 drivers\owners but a couple here and there. But I get what you're saying.
Nonetheless, I do agree that this 1M is only the beginning. They set out to go back to their roots and they acheived it with this 1M! It makes me very eager and excited for things to come. Especially the current M3 replacement...
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      06-10-2011, 10:10 AM   #108
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Put some of those hot air intakes and a tank of 89 in a 1M and take it out to the track on a 90+ day...you'll be lucky to keep up with the N52's!
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      06-10-2011, 10:26 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Parker View Post
Thanks for your opinions Bubbles. Come to think of it an M6 left Road Atlanta due to overheating and an E36 M3 overheated and believed he destroyed his engine. I do not want to get involved in the pissing match but I do have a couple questions.

Did you guys drive with MDM on or off? When I drove Road Atlanta last Monday I shut everything off for most of the day but several times when I had it on I felt a loss of power, glanced down and didn't see the light flashing and after another glance up then down it was flashing briefly. I stayed in the throttle and after what seemed like an eternity it would give back the reins. I would have mistaken it for a loss of power but it was actually the computer stepping in. I wonder if there's a threshold where the light comes on vs. power cut by the electronics. I'm not looking for excuses here, just curious.

Were you driving in other cars drafts? I made sure I didn't in order to keep airflow at a maximum.

Temps at Road Atlanta reached 98 ambient and 132 track temp so I'm surprised the 1M lost power at VIR. What were the temps? Both tracks are similar in the amount of wide open throttle you use but it's obviously not apples to apples.

Actually, that brings up another question, what track configuration did BMW use?

It must have been cool to hop from one car to another.
Thanks.

Dan

We ran the patriot course section for the 1M test, tight turns where I assumed the 1M would shine. With the M settings initially with MDM on (which may or may not have been turned off during the test run ). You are right on about the traction control, the system is clearly kicking in without "blinking". It's more aggressive than the M3 ZCP MDM mode, probably due to the torque, but I was doing my best to feather the throttle. With that being said there is a good uphill straight where you can hit a good clip in fourth gear---> that's where I noticed the heat soak and torque loss. Each lap I loss 1-2 mph. Same feeling I had with the 335i, with 1M it happened when oil temps hit 270-275F. I'm so used to that feeling from my 335i that I may be more sensitive to others.

Sounds like you had a blast at RA, that's next on the menu for me then Watkins Glen.

FYI No cars to interrupt airflow, but no long straights for complete cool downs.
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      06-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
Thanks for the clarification Dan. So I take it you didn't notice any torque loss at all pulling out of the corners towards the end of your sessions? I think that is what people are all hung up about. I can see how the OP would feel underwhelmed about the power of the 1M coming from a tuned N54 335i, but I am willing to bet the OP would say that the 1M "handled" better than his 335i overall. That would be a statement I would agree with.
Hands down much better than the 335i. I put that in my original post, but I guess some folks didn't read the entire post.
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